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Port Said Red

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We are soooo painfully slow in attacking mode. 
 

STOP ******* knocking around the back. Every time. Simply allows the opposition to set up their rigid defensive formation. Vary it. Just on occasions, attack with pace in a fast, direct forward movement. 
 

Sako what is the point if all you are going to do is receive, pass backwards 10 yards. 
 

No wonder Kane doesn’t get a sniff. He’s constantly surrounded by 3 defenders because they’re giving time to group up around him. 
 

Grealish was the only one who showed any spark and Southgate bewilderingly takes him off. 

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3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

At home, against a bunch of fascists with nothing to play for, he's entitled to pick one less defensive midfielder and pick an attacking one instead.

The rest is down to the players.

Disappointing result, against an entirely negative opponents, that still lives us in command of our own destiny.

I’m not knocking the decision to start Foden deeper. I’m talking about his substitutions. Southgate’s inability to make the right changes and at the right time, has hindered us previously and will continue to do so.  

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2 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

I’m not knocking the decision to start Foden deeper. I’m talking about his substitutions. Southgate’s inability to make the right changes and at the right time, has hindered us previously and will continue to do so.  

I think he was spoilt for choice about who to take off!

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1 minute ago, cityexile said:

Just as an aside, BBC showing Albania v Poland still playing at 90+27. Either that is wrong or that is a lot of extra time!

 

1 minute ago, Reigate Red said:

Albania v Poland now into the 27th minute added time - what went on there?

Was suspended due to crowd trouble and has just restarted.

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4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

We’ve made it to the semi final and final of the last two tournaments - is that evidence of how Southgate has “hindered us previously” ... ?!

Whilst I appreciate you still have to get there and they are “achievements”, we pretty much had home advantage during the Euros. Until Italy, the highest ranked side we faced were Denmark. At the WC we had a glorious route to the final before coming up against proper competition in Croatia. 

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14 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

We’ve made it to the semi final and final of the last two tournaments - is that evidence of how Southgate has “hindered us previously” ... ?!

Didn’t watch the game myself but my boy just rang me and from Wembley and said Grealish was taken off after an hour but was the best England player by a distance, typical of some of the very strange and questionable decisions that Southgate seems to make at times

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I am typing this as a proud Scot but most certainly not anti- English, having lived here more than half my life.

Let me be totally clear, I want England to win unless of course it is against Scotland.

I think  Southgate is a very negative coach, the quality and the talent of the front six that England currently have is unprecedented but he is scared, in my opinion to open up. He simply does not want to lose.

In the Euros final you go 1-0 nil then for me, and I have managed at a hugely lower level, you go for the kill, at 2-0 that game was over.

World Cup in Russia the semi was a different story but still too conservative. 

You will get to Qatar, no issue, but the end result will not be a trophy and with the talent available you should be favorites.

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1 hour ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Southgates had a shocker tonight. 

Why, may i ask? Southgate has picked the most in form team available to him tonight, he went for a very attacking line - up and the players ultimately didn’t perform. International football isn’t easy these days and as much as your Foden’s and Grealish’s are top players they haven’t got a divine right to be unlocking very organised and resilient defences at will..

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53 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Whilst I appreciate you still have to get there and they are “achievements”, we pretty much had home advantage during the Euros. Until Italy, the highest ranked side we faced were Denmark. At the WC we had a glorious route to the final before coming up against proper competition in Croatia. 

We lost 3 times in that World Cup! 
we were better in the euros beat Germany and Denmark but had home advantage! And similar climates too the next World Cup in a dessert I would imagine it’s warm even if it is in the winter!

Southgate as we know is no tactical magician (not the greatest club record) but he seems to man manage well as has got very lucky with the draw in the knockout rounds!
 
 So in summery we won’t win a tournament with him in charge unless we have another easy run in! I’d say quarter finals and we got knocked out!  

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47 minutes ago, bris red said:

Why, may i ask? Southgate has picked the most in form team available to him tonight, he went for a very attacking line - up and the players ultimately didn’t perform. International football isn’t easy these days and as much as your Foden’s and Grealish’s are top players they haven’t got a divine right to be unlocking very organised and resilient defences at will..

There's only one Foden and one Grealish, why pluralise?

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9 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

So in summery we won’t win a tournament with him in charge

Starting to think this more and more.
World Cup, should have been more front foot and Vs Italy IMO they were there for the taking. Bringing players on to take Pens when they were sitting deeper ? The same subs 20 minutes earlier may have won it, but he wants "not to lose" more than win. Now qualifying that isn't so bad, last night was another point to qualification, but in a knock out setting? Madness.

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13 minutes ago, TwoSheds said:

Very poor last night, should have taken Stirling of after an hour, bring  on Tammy he would feed of Grealish. Gareth wrong subs and far too late to win the game. Playing like this against decent opposition will end in tears again. 

His subs have always baffled me. I am also unsure why he loves Mason Mount so much as whenever I see him play for England he is totally anonymous

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3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

His subs have always baffled me. I am also unsure why he loves Mason Mount so much as whenever I see him play for England he is totally anonymous

Have to agree with Mount shouldn't really be in the starting line up.

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Southgate's achievements surpass those of any England manager in my lifetime. People can say the Euros was an easy draw but we got to the semis without conceding and, for the most part, controlled matches in a way I have not seen England do before.

HIs record - a semi-final and a final from two tournaments - is better than any manager since Sir Alf Ramsey and the culture of togetherness in the squad is seriously impressive. I think a lot of people underestimate quite how good a manager he is. I'd definitely put him above any manager since Sir Bobby Robson and I think there is a reasonable argument for saying his achievements are more impressive than Robson's. (People forget how much we laboured through most of the group games and second round at Italia '90).

BUT the caveat is that he is not quite in the best of the best category. He makes mistakes, he gets tactically out-thought by the absolute best managers and, disciplined as the team is, it maybe doesn't quite get the best out of the players.

Which gives the FA a real dilemma.

If we changed managers, the new manager is extremely likely to do worse than Southgate has done. However I don't think Southgate will ever quite win a major tournament and there is a small chance a new manager will be an improvement and might do so.

Really hard to say whether the FA should stick and twist. Personally I think Southgate may leave after '22 so I'd focus on planning for getting the right appointment then, who can continue with the culture and structure Southgate has created but maybe with the tactical acumen on the biggest stages. 

 

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8 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Southgate's achievements surpass those of any England manager in my lifetime. People can say the Euros was an easy draw but we got to the semis without conceding and, for the most part, controlled matches in a way I have not seen England do before.

HIs record - a semi-final and a final from two tournaments - is better than any manager since Sir Alf Ramsey and the culture of togetherness in the squad is seriously impressive. I think a lot of people underestimate quite how good a manager he is. I'd definitely put him above any manager since Sir Bobby Robson and I think there is a reasonable argument for saying his achievements are more impressive than Robson's. (People forget how much we laboured through most of the group games and second round at Italia '90).

BUT the caveat is that he is not quite in the best of the best category. He makes mistakes, he gets tactically out-thought by the absolute best managers and, disciplined as the team is, it maybe doesn't quite get the best out of the players.

Which gives the FA a real dilemma.

If we changed managers, the new manager is extremely likely to do worse than Southgate has done. However I don't think Southgate will ever quite win a major tournament and there is a small chance a new manager will be an improvement and might do so.

Really hard to say whether the FA should stick and twist. Personally I think Southgate may leave after '22 so I'd focus on planning for getting the right appointment then, who can continue with the culture and structure Southgate has created but maybe with the tactical acumen on the biggest stages. 

 

I think in general we miss having a true world class player….a player that “does it” when needed, a Ronaldo, Modric, etc.  We have good international players, but not truly world-class.

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34 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Southgate's achievements surpass those of any England manager in my lifetime. People can say the Euros was an easy draw but we got to the semis without conceding and, for the most part, controlled matches in a way I have not seen England do before.

HIs record - a semi-final and a final from two tournaments - is better than any manager since Sir Alf Ramsey and the culture of togetherness in the squad is seriously impressive. I think a lot of people underestimate quite how good a manager he is. I'd definitely put him above any manager since Sir Bobby Robson and I think there is a reasonable argument for saying his achievements are more impressive than Robson's. (People forget how much we laboured through most of the group games and second round at Italia '90).

BUT the caveat is that he is not quite in the best of the best category. He makes mistakes, he gets tactically out-thought by the absolute best managers and, disciplined as the team is, it maybe doesn't quite get the best out of the players.

Which gives the FA a real dilemma.

If we changed managers, the new manager is extremely likely to do worse than Southgate has done. However I don't think Southgate will ever quite win a major tournament and there is a small chance a new manager will be an improvement and might do so.

Really hard to say whether the FA should stick and twist. Personally I think Southgate may leave after '22 so I'd focus on planning for getting the right appointment then, who can continue with the culture and structure Southgate has created but maybe with the tactical acumen on the biggest stages. 

 

Yeah, I think he'll go after 2022. It'll be his decision though, no chance the FA would sack him after the last couple of tournaments.

The "easy draw" stuff is a load of nonsense, frankly. Almost exclusively the domain of people who have to look for any reason they can to downplay British (particulary English) achievement, regardless of the sport.

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13 hours ago, RedRock said:

We are soooo painfully slow in attacking mode. 
 

STOP ******* knocking around the back. Every time. Simply allows the opposition to set up their rigid defensive formation. Vary it. Just on occasions, attack with pace in a fast, direct forward movement. 
 

Sako what is the point if all you are going to do is receive, pass backwards 10 yards. 
 

No wonder Kane doesn’t get a sniff. He’s constantly surrounded by 3 defenders because they’re giving time to group up around him. 
 

Grealish was the only one who showed any spark and Southgate bewilderingly takes him off. 

England should be keeping the ball and resetting it. Building from the back has progressed the team. The personnell last night lead to slow play. Rice is no pivot and Mings lacks range. Where is the distributor? The outcome was predictable. The patterns predictable up back across etc. 

In regards to allowing the opposition to set up. Hungary were not rigid they slid and screened following the possesion. Grealish dribbling horizontally in the second third and taking multiple touches made it easier for the opposition to screen in lines. It was not fast and direct its was slow and indirect. Playing one two touch would speed patterns up. I would have kept him on but his withdrawal had some merit behind it. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think in general we miss having a true world class player….a player that “does it” when needed, a Ronaldo, Modric, etc.  We have good international players, but not truly world-class.

I agree but, for the first time in a long time, I can see us getting there. I reckon there are four or five players in the team who might* become genuinely exceptional. I think Foden, Sancho, Saka, Bellingham and - although he'd need to develop quickly given his age - Grealish have all got the attributes to become genuinely world class players. It's been a long time since I've said that about an England squad. 

 

*with a lot of caveats that a lot of things can affect a players' development and they also might not.

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I only watched about 10 minutes of each half.  It felt pretty similar to many England performances.  We are decent but not top-class team.  We will always be there or thereabouts.  We qualify relatively easily for each tournament, which has not been the case in the past (tournament expansion has helped!).

Southgate has done a decent job.  I’ve never thought we looked like winning a tournament in recent times, so his record is good.

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