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Playing at home Really??


Clutton Caveman

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7 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

We could play the rovers on the moon and there would be a good atmosphere. Standing in the current corner the lads in the middle constantly try to whip the atmosphere up every game. But people just don’t seem to be interested. I would definitely put it down to our current home form but also maybe the unreserved is no more and also new people in the area who never contribute. What’s the point of going in there. Also on Saturday a couple of lads in block 24 started standing up trying to get the atmosphere going joining in. Steward straight over telling them to sit down. Went and got steward supervisor and it just killed it. IMO they should extend the safety rail seating let more people stand move it behind the goal. 

A bigger standing/singing section? I don't disagree, problem is to what extent is that permissible with our SAG/SAGs generally? Plus unsure we can shift it around mid-season.

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7 hours ago, Pezo said:

Can't remember when Redknapp said it. Warnock said it after the Palace game I believe but I can remember games that season that had a really flat atmosphere and it was one of our best seasons in the last 30 years.

The reality is generally speaking we are big game players that find it hard to motivate ourselves for games against journeyman teams or those we perceive to be below us.

Thought in 2007/08 the atmospheres were quite good in general- it was arguably our best season in a generation, certainly the closest we had come to a top flight return since 1980.

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Stop the crappy chants about a local rivals' manager, just when an atmosphere is trying to build would help.

AG layout post rebuild, is not great for atmosphere and the club do NOT want it hostile, they want it 'nice'. I do think a block or two in the bottom tier of the Dolman nearest the away fans would be a good idea to spread the atmosphere a bit. 

I'm in the corner but not in the group in the centre. They give it a good go most games and I have some personal friends amongst them. Saturday was below par and was a poor atmosphere. 

However, for those who need a bit of encouragement to get behind the team, let's not forget we have had a poor home record for 3 or 4 seasons now.

COYR

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People think that extending the ‘singing section’ will improve it. Rubbish. There’s 1200 people in there already and only about 50 actually try to sing most of the game. Where are these extra people who want to sing going to come from? 
It’s been getting worse and worse for years. The only thing that will improve the atmosphere would be for more people to actually join in. Not really rocket science. More singers, louder it gets. Right now there’s about 50 to 100 people making an effort. Occasionally it catches on and gets a bit louder but mostly it’s just 50 lads. 

 

doesn’t help that a lot of people piss off to the bar for most of the game. Maybe the club shouldn’t show the game on the screens in the concourse as it just encourages people to stand around with a beer and watch it on tv. 

Edited by Enter Sandman
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31 minutes ago, RumRed said:

I was purely making the point that atmosphere is for the fans, not the players.

Also even though only 4 people see my actual spreadsheet over 50,000 see the results once run through some pretty web app.

Maybe I should ask to be on 10k a week and get my company to pay a cheerleading squad just in case I feel a bit down on a wet Tuesday?

I think it's for both. Players often talk about it don't they, and if they're going to have 20k people scrutinising their every move for 90m surely support is better than anything else? You've never experienced the effect of a crowd on a game - either positive or negative?

Your argument is really odd and seems a bit hung up on the amount they make. They didn't decide that, it's the going rate and it's not their fault. Money doesn't make you feel "less shit" on a Tuesday night if you're playing like crap, losing, and the crowd are on your back. I seriously doubt almost any player will be going "Ah well another 5k at the end of the week never mind eh, who's in charge of the half time orange slices this week?".

 

If you were one of the best in the world you probably would be paid 10k a week for that spreadsheet ;) and have a group of people hanging off your every word at conferences or whatever!

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9 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Hate to say it, but the changing demographics of our fan base is going to make it very difficult to get back any sort of atmosphere. Middle class, first generation Bristolians and their children now populate Ashton Gate and whilst their support and money is very welcome, they mostly aren’t going to join in with songs and chants.

It’s just the way football is going I’m afraid and there are only a handful of grounds left in the UK that can still generate a good atmosphere.

Nail on head. You get S82 trying their best and a murmur at best from the rest of the crowd. Used to do pay on the day and by far and away the best atmosphere I experienced outside S82 was in the Atyeo when we opened it up against Derby and others. Completely get not everyone wants to be shouting for 90 minutes but if we were able to get more of an atmosphere going from the lansdown and dolman it would do wonders.

Sadly in my view the atmosphere died with the East End. Would be nice to see the rail seating go across the whole stand and make it more of a “home end” as it was a decade ago. Not sure there’s enough demand for it though (or even if the club would want to).

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In my time (since late 1990s), I'd say- and this doesn't exactly include big games, especially under the lights but the more routine ones- although Saturday was very flat considering we were playing the side top of the table.

It's got that bit worse each decade IMO. Myriad of reasons and not all of them City specific. Changing demographics, a wider gentrification of the game in general, the music blaring pre game, more comfortable surroundings, the new AG is much more comfortable than pre redevelopment surely, away fans and home fans being kept so far apart. The lights as well. Some of this was even predating the late 1990s and aspects will also have declined in the prior decade.

I'm sure that there are more I've missed, question is how is it changed? How much is even in the gift of the club ie SAG requirements that we have to adhere to?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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5 minutes ago, Enter Sandman said:

People think that extending the ‘singing section’ will improve it. Rubbish. There’s 1200 people in there already and only about 50 actually try to sing most of the game. Where are these extra people who want to sing going to come from? 
It’s been getting worse and worse for years. The only thing that will improve the atmosphere would be for more people to actually join in. Not really rocket science. More singers, louder it gets. Right now there’s about 50 to 100 people making an effort. Occasionally it catches on and gets a bit louder but mostly it’s just 50 lads. 

 

doesn’t help that a lot of people piss off to the bar for most of the game. Maybe the club shouldn’t show the game on the screens in the concourse as it just encourages people to stand around with a beer and watch it on tv. 

Agree. The more people join in, across the ground, the better. Doesn’t help that some people love a moan about the chants they don’t like, which then discourages other to sing. Had a guy in front of me (in the signing section mind) about the “I see the east end a-rising” chant, which then killed it off around him which then spread. If fans want an atmosphere they’ve got to do their bit in creating one. Doesn’t help that there’s nothing to sing about on the pitch.

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9 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I think it's for both. Players often talk about it don't they, and if they're going to have 20k people scrutinising their every move for 90m surely support is better than anything else? You've never experienced the effect of a crowd on a game - either positive or negative?

Your argument is really odd and seems a bit hung up on the amount they make. They didn't decide that, it's the going rate and it's not their fault. Money doesn't make you feel "less shit" on a Tuesday night if you're playing like crap, losing, and the crowd are on your back. I seriously doubt almost any player will be going "Ah well another 5k at the end of the week never mind eh, who's in charge of the half time orange slices this week?".

 

If you were one of the best in the world you probably would be paid 10k a week for that spreadsheet ;) and have a group of people hanging off your every word at conferences or whatever!

Funnily enough my years wages are just over a months worth of someone earning 10k a week. Unfortunately I am really crap at football, oh and cricket. Usually get sent off in football (lack of ability rather than malice). Cricket ? I either get 3 fours as the last batsman or out for a duck, usually the second. Agricultural I’d say. Weird where the money is.

I can understand the crowd getting on their backs might be an issue but the support side of it? Maybe it does but in which case they are precious little flowers. My boss gives me a verbal kicking I listen, need the salary.

 

 

Edited by RumRed
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The singing section at home is really poor in my opinion - certainly not helped though by location in the stadium.
Such a limited, one dimensional set of chants with still no reference to many of the players. Yes there are a couple of decent ones but does JD need to be sung about so often just because they can’t think of anything for any else?!
As someone said above - the S82’ers really do need educating on what good chants sound & look like. It’s a bit embarrassing when old guys like me have more idea than the Youth!!
 

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10 hours ago, Sniper said:

Unfortunately I don't think things will ever be the same. Some of the youngsters won't know any different, but I was lucky enough to remember the days of standing in the East End. 5 or 6 Pints of Natch before the game, a hotdog and a burger from one of the wagons, face all covered in Ketchup and Mustard.

Score a goal and you'd end up a good 10 meters from where you were, jumping up and down like a loon hugging someone that you didn't even know. I'll never ever forget that.

One point, when you stood in the EE, it was YARDS, not meters !

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8 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

At the risk of massive flak, I think the Gas heads often create more noise that we do. Purely from an acoustic and visual standpoint, our sound should come from the centre of the East End.

Thing is with the blue few is that whilst our fanbase has roughly doubled in the last twenty years, theirs hasn’t grown at all. It’s simply aged. Youngsters without any football affiliation in their family and newbies to Bristol are coming to us, not them. Which is wonderful of course… but it might have created more of a tight knit “everybody knows everybody” kind of community there which is a positive thing for atmosphere.

They also have a whole terrace behind the goal which enables their hardcore to congregate together for vocal support without fear of somebody telling them they are in their seat or to sit down.

Edited by Wanderingred
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It's Apples v Oranges

Bristol is now very affluent, and the fanbase reflects that.

 

Go back to when AG was a fortress that away fans were terrified to come to unless very mobbed up.

The difference - mass unemployment, Miners strikes, Thatcher years, Falklands - plus youth had identity then - not like purely 'chavs' now - skinheads, Punks, Mods,Scooter Boys New Romantics, Goths etc

 

The streets were a cauldron of combat - skins v mods, punks v scooter boys. Us oldies remember Broadmead - Reggie Boys and Punks at Virgin Records, running fights between punks,skins and mods.

The huge mod / punk fight on Gloucester Rd (about a 3rd of future CSF lads were at that one) - Cardiff in town every Saturday night.,

 

Bristol was an angry aggressive City - the riots showed that - so Football was a release for that rage.

England in the 80's was a divided, angry country, socially, politically, racially - and football wise.

 

It can never be the same again, as Bristol has moved on to become a staunchly left / green affluent city.

The rage has gone.

 

Certainly though - bung the away fans up in the gods, and let the singers / chanters gravitate to the middle of the SS - hopefully the rail seats will help.

But yeah - 'designated singing section' says it all. Dont forget your square to wave your flag in.

 

The future is here, and the future is chardonnay with prawn sandwiches. At least for Bristol Sport.

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7 hours ago, Cardy said:

The singing section at home is really poor in my opinion - certainly not helped though by location in the stadium.
Such a limited, one dimensional set of chants with still no reference to many of the players. Yes there are a couple of decent ones but does JD need to be sung about so often just because they can’t think of anything for any else?!
As someone said above - the S82’ers really do need educating on what good chants sound & look like. It’s a bit embarrassing when old guys like me have more idea than the Youth!!
 

Go on then, go there and educate them, I'm sure they will welcome you as they are a great group of lads.

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thought in 2007/08 the atmospheres were quite good in general- it was arguably our best season in a generation, certainly the closest we had come to a top flight return since 1980.

Yeah, as I said - one of the best seasons in the last 30 years but some of those last 10 as we slipped away from the automatic positions were very quiet nervous atmospheres. Things like losing at home to Plymouth or the 0-0 with Wolves and Watford.

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18 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

On Saturday with plenty of time to think, due to getting stuffed, I wonder how we can continue to give visiting teams such a great time.

Our singing section is tucked in a corner with virtually no noise until the game starts. Such a limited range of songs and few that others can understand and join in with. We sing the Dasilva song whether is is good or bad because its one of the few that we have.

At the other end !!. We give them a full end behind a goal. Why don't the away fans at the gate get tucked into a top corner somewhere like we do?

I started watching City in 1970. The East End then has some pride and character. The song leaders where at the back in the middle and the singing spread out wide to both sides. The noise then would put our current volume to shame. We had a song for each player which didn't need to be a musical master piece. Everyone could hear it and join in. We had real hostility when one of ours was wronged.

We briefly heard the far end of the Dolman on Saturday but it soon died out.

For Goodness sake. Lets move the singing section to the middle of the East End. Get some simple and decent songs and belt them out and finally lets move the away fans as far away from the pitch as we can.

Lets also turn the pre match music down so that at least the fans can be heard.

Come on, the team needs help and the noise and encouragement just has to be better

 

Agree with that

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The location of away fans in our ground is ridiculous since rebuild.

Every game, we have to 1-2k away fans shouting your support is XXXXXX sh1t, is this a library & all the other highly original routines & directly at the blocks least likely to respond, because;

  • They have the whole stand behind the goal
  • You can just about hear our singing section from the Atyeo side, but it sounds like they are in KFC, it so feint & as a result doesn't spread round through the ground well enough.
  • Singing section is at the other end off the ground - I used to loved when away fans were next to old wedlock stand, the dynamic was managed.

Someone on this thread mentioned about moving away fans to the Lansdown top tier, what a great idea & surely this has to be a priority or at least properly considered. Because;

  • This would bring the family seats down closer to the action and behind our own goal, this will get the kids more engaged. 
  • Acoustically, it should reduce the impact of any fans as there technically above the surrounding stands
  • Away fans cans still be contained & the club can still flog them all refreshments they want.

The impact of away fans must be having an affect of the atmosphere & performances, the club really need to consider elements like this as for me it becoming a weird dynamic that actually makes the experience pretty sh1t for home fans.

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8 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

It's Apples v Oranges

Bristol is now very affluent, and the fanbase reflects that.

 

Go back to when AG was a fortress that away fans were terrified to come to unless very mobbed up.

The difference - mass unemployment, Miners strikes, Thatcher years, Falklands - plus youth had identity then - not like purely 'chavs' now - skinheads, Punks, Mods,Scooter Boys New Romantics, Goths etc

 

The streets were a cauldron of combat - skins v mods, punks v scooter boys. Us oldies remember Broadmead - Reggie Boys and Punks at Virgin Records, running fights between punks,skins and mods.

The huge mod / punk fight on Gloucester Rd (about a 3rd of future CSF lads were at that one) - Cardiff in town every Saturday night.,

 

Bristol was an angry aggressive City - the riots showed that - so Football was a release for that rage.

England in the 80's was a divided, angry country, socially, politically, racially - and football wise.

 

It can never be the same again, as Bristol has moved on to become a staunchly left / green affluent city.

The rage has gone.

 

Certainly though - bung the away fans up in the gods, and let the singers / chanters gravitate to the middle of the SS - hopefully the rail seats will help.

But yeah - 'designated singing section' says it all. Dont forget your square to wave your flag in.

 

The future is here, and the future is chardonnay with prawn sandwiches. At least for Bristol Sport.

Not sure what being left/green has to do with riots or rage really - I doubt you're implying the groups you mentioned above were right wing, like punks etc. 

I'd also point out Bristol has had some extremely high profile "civil disobedience" in the last few years. The Colston statue, obviously, and the stuff at the police station in the last year when the police van got set on fire. Both made national (or international) news.

The real difference? This time the City fans were on the side of tradition, stability, and law and order, rather than the disobedient side ;) maybe that's the problem.

The rage is still there  as it always way, it's just directed at larger power structures now rather than other people imo... for better or for worse.

 

 

Edited by IAmNick
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8 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

It's Apples v Oranges

Bristol is now very affluent, and the fanbase reflects that.

 

Go back to when AG was a fortress that away fans were terrified to come to unless very mobbed up.

The difference - mass unemployment, Miners strikes, Thatcher years, Falklands - plus youth had identity then - not like purely 'chavs' now - skinheads, Punks, Mods,Scooter Boys New Romantics, Goths etc

 

The streets were a cauldron of combat - skins v mods, punks v scooter boys. Us oldies remember Broadmead - Reggie Boys and Punks at Virgin Records, running fights between punks,skins and mods.

The huge mod / punk fight on Gloucester Rd (about a 3rd of future CSF lads were at that one) - Cardiff in town every Saturday night.,

 

Bristol was an angry aggressive City - the riots showed that - so Football was a release for that rage.

England in the 80's was a divided, angry country, socially, politically, racially - and football wise.

 

It can never be the same again, as Bristol has moved on to become a staunchly left / green affluent city.

The rage has gone.

 

Certainly though - bung the away fans up in the gods, and let the singers / chanters gravitate to the middle of the SS - hopefully the rail seats will help.

But yeah - 'designated singing section' says it all. Dont forget your square to wave your flag in.

 

The future is here, and the future is chardonnay with prawn sandwiches. At least for Bristol Sport.

Interesting.

Lions flag day and the Wessun all dayer get together shows there still something.

Days of celebrating fan culture.

That there culture isn’t wanted by Bristol Sport though.

They have homogenised match day.

Debollocked it by creating their singing section.

This Section 82 have helped the homogenisation and debollocking of Ashton Gate along.

Outside of the authorised singing section the homogenisation and debollocking of Ashton Gate was accelerated because there is an authorised singing section.

In the Dolman whats was the A is now a weedy E you can’t stand to sing or even put a flag up cos that’s for the authorised singing section.

Hope?

There is still chaps out there with pull.

They can get hundreds of the right noisy sorts together.

But for Bristol Sport to want help they have to go well what we have done here is a bit S in the BS .. That is unlikely to happen.

This authorised singing section is a problem.

As chaps say a singing section says it all.

Edited by Sixtyseconds
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2 hours ago, Red Alert said:

The location of away fans in our ground is ridiculous since rebuild.

Every game, we have to 1-2k away fans shouting your support is XXXXXX sh1t, is this a library & all the other highly original routines & directly at the blocks least likely to respond, because;

  • They have the whole stand behind the goal
  • You can just about hear our singing section from the Atyeo side, but it sounds like they are in KFC, it so feint & as a result doesn't spread round through the ground well enough.
  • Singing section is at the other end off the ground - I used to loved when away fans were next to old wedlock stand, the dynamic was managed.

Someone on this thread mentioned about moving away fans to the Lansdown top tier, what a great idea & surely this has to be a priority or at least properly considered. Because;

  • This would bring the family seats down closer to the action and behind our own goal, this will get the kids more engaged. 
  • Acoustically, it should reduce the impact of any fans as there technically above the surrounding stands
  • Away fans cans still be contained & the club can still flog them all refreshments they want.

The impact of away fans must be having an affect of the atmosphere & performances, the club really need to consider elements like this as for me it becoming a weird dynamic that actually makes the experience pretty sh1t for home fans.

It has to be possible for the away fans and home fans to be in the same stand. I can think of many teams who take this approach - Wolves have lower tier for away fans and upper tier for home fans.  Forest the same.  Newcastle, Swansea, Spurs, all have home and away fans in the same stands divided by tiers.
And I think your rationale for doing it ie getting our younger fans closer to the pitch and more engaged whilst moving the away fans away from the goal is the most positive one there is.  Would also actually move away fans nearer the South Stand which would naturally improve the atmosphere as well as we would at least be able to engage.
 

Club really need to think about this I think - it’s ok wanting to just appeal to a certain demographic who they think do not want any edge at all, but whenever I’ve taken non fans it’s the atmosphere that always hooks people in. Lose that atmosphere and you lose a massive reason for going - whatever social strata you are! 

Edited by lenred
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19 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

I mentioned this to the club a few years ago, I got told, by Adam Baker I think, that the club had monitored it and decided leaving to the crowd to create an atmosphere hadn’t worked.

personally I used to love the build up a crowd created, especially with a big away following. Maybe it’s different now, I don’t know.

Do people actually get in the ground early enough to do this?

A lot hang around outside drinking and/or smoking to the last minute and walk in just before kick off

I can't remember the last time I was in the ground and the crowd were doing much to get an atmosphere going before the game started

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3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

 

I can't remember the last time I was in the ground and the crowd were doing much to get an atmosphere going before the game started

 

To be honest, it's usually lots of worried people saying to their companions "I will be surprised if we get much from this!" or "Be lucky to get a point here!"

It's something of a vicious circle: the lack of home wins has depressed the mood of the crowd; this translates into a flat atmosphere which does little to lift the players.

Let's hope that might change tonight. ?

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From the post heading, I thought this topic was about our approach on the pitch at home rather than who sits where! Whilst having a vociferous home support/tucking the away fans in a hidden corner might 'carry us over the finishing line when it comes to 'winning at home', it wont be enough until the players get us close to that finishing line. Perhaps a more adventurous approach to picking the team at home might achieve that? Ok, we might lose a few more but would also win some more at home (even one win would be an improvement!). Better three points from winning one and losing one, than two points for two draws. 

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2 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Interesting.

Lions flag day and the Wessun all dayer get together shows there still something.

Days of celebrating fan culture.

That there culture isn’t wanted by Bristol Sport though.

They have homogenised match day.

Debollocked it by creating their singing section.

This Section 82 have helped the homogenisation and debollocking of Ashton Gate along.

Outside of the authorised singing section the homogenisation and debollocking of Ashton Gate was accelerated because there is an authorised singing section.

In the Dolman whats was the A is now a weedy E you can’t stand to sing or even put a flag up cos that’s for the authorised singing section.

Hope?

There is still chaps out there with pull.

They can get hundreds of the right noisy sorts together.

But for Bristol Sport to want help they have to go well what we have done here is a bit S in the BS .. That is unlikely to happen.

This authorised singing section is a problem.

As chaps say a singing section says it all.

Agree with a fair amount of this. Although the corner was named a 'Singing Section' by the club retrospectively. It was not something people requested as far as I am aware, I certainly didn't move to a designated 'Singing Section'.  

What would BS need to do in your opinion? 

I'm not part of the S82 group, but I see it as they are trying to make the best of a bad situation. If there is something others can offer to improve it, surely it's worth doing it?

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31 minutes ago, Puckle_red said:

Agree with a fair amount of this. Although the corner was named a 'Singing Section' by the club retrospectively. It was not something people requested as far as I am aware, I certainly didn't move to a designated 'Singing Section'.  

What would BS need to do in your opinion? 

I'm not part of the S82 group, but I see it as they are trying to make the best of a bad situation. If there is something others can offer to improve it, surely it's worth doing it?

BS look at this S82 as the leaders of their SS in the SS. 

Its control. 

S82 have been used to say you cant put that there or stand there or sing that because it has to be put there in the SS and you can stand there in the SS where you can sing that with S82 in our official SS.

And this S82 went along with it. 

What would BS need to .. Change that mindset.

Totally.

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