coaching staff/scouting opposition

[dunsteral]

It was embarrasing on saturday to see our coaching staff (5 of them) all visiting the technical area at different times, all waving their

arms about and not appearing to have anything to offer which would have given us even the slightest chance of changing the game.

Nige, Curtis, Paul, Keith and Pat all did as i say above but none of it made any difference. Why do we need 5 coaching staff (plus Cisse))

and what are they actually doing?

The other thing that struck me was we are often informed that we have people watching teams rhat we are due to come up against,

and that various reports are studied to enable us to create a plan on how to deal with opposition players, tactics etc. It seemed to me on

Saturday we had no clue how Bournemouth were going to play and certainly no plan on how we could stop them, or even force our game on them.

I realise Bournemouth played supremely well but it seemed to take us by surprise. Had we not bothered to fo and watch them?

Onward and upward (hopefully tomorrow night).

[Lrrr]

you seriously think staff aren’t bothering to do jobs? Or do you just conveniently forget Bournemouth will also have people watching us and planning against us and the fact Bournemouth are one of the best teams in the league? 

[archie andrews]

Havent you ever wondered what stevie wonders doing nowadays... 

[marmite]

58 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

you seriously think staff aren’t bothering to do jobs? Or do you just conveniently forget Bournemouth will also have people watching us and planning against us and the fact Bournemouth are one of the best teams in the league? 

Any scouts watching us would say " if we keep our wingers wide, we will have plenty of time to receive the ball, control it, and pick out a cross, because Bristol City play very narrow at the back".  

That's the reason we are always under pressure  dealing with crosses into the box or wide men cutting in against us. 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, marmite said:

Any scouts watching us would say " if we keep our wingers wide, we will have plenty of time to receive the ball, control it, and pick out a cross, because Bristol City play very narrow at the back".  

That's the reason we are always under pressure  dealing with crosses into the box or wide men cutting in against us. 

Got to put pressure on the player trying to find the winger.  That’s been part of our downfall.

[frenchred]

I just don't see much or very little improvement under this regime. Just different excuses after each loss

[marmite]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Got to put pressure on the player trying to find the winger.  That’s been part of our downfall.

Thing is Dave, players are pinging 60 and 70 yard passes from uncontested possession. I can remember 2 on Saturday  from Kelly that came from the edge of their penalty area. Our players don't seem aware of a threat from that position. 

[Waconda]

In theory if you are frantically trying to organise and enthuse the team during the game then you have failed to prepare or organise properly.

The sign of a good coach is how little they do during a game, as they will have covered "all the bases" before hand, prepared their team properly and trust their team to make minor adjustments during play. The odd tweak, clap of encouragement or sharp rebuke aside things should be calm on the bench during the game.

manic waving, yelling and side line coaching is a red flag - IMO

[frenchred]

32 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

In theory if you are frantically trying to organise and enthuse the team during the game then you have failed to prepare or organise properly.

The sign of a good coach is how little they do during a game, as they will have covered "all the bases" before hand, prepared their team properly and trust their team to make minor adjustments during play. The odd tweak, clap of encouragement or sharp rebuke aside things should be calm on the bench during the game.

manic waving, yelling and side line coaching is a red flag - IMO

I would say the sign of a good coach is points won (especially at home!)

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

I would say the sign of a good coach is points won (especially at home!)

Some would say that these two things go together.

[Guest]

I fail to see the value one NP sitting in the stand and then relaying his thoughts to someone else to try and convey to the players.

If Nige wants to know what’s going on from on high he could either give that role to one of the assistant coaches or with todays technology watch a live feed from the cameras.

His role is to guide, motivate and enthuse the players singly and collectively, I don’t think he can do that from the stands.

It maybe that due to his recent illnesses he feels the need to take a detached and remote view to avoid stressing himself, I don’t know, that maybe complete nonsense, what I do know is that pretty much every manager I saw on TV over the weekend was on the touch line however undemonstrative or wildly losing it they might have been.

The team needs you in the technical area Nige.

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I fail to see the value one NP sitting in the stand and then relaying his thoughts to someone else to try and convey to the players.

If Nige wants to know what’s going on from on high he could either give that role to one of the assistant coaches or with todays technology watch a live feed from the cameras.

His role is to guide, motivate and enthuse the players singly and collectively, I don’t think he can do that from the stands.

It maybe that due to his recent illnesses he feels the need to take a detached and remote view to avoid stressing himself, I don’t know, that maybe complete nonsense, what I do know is that pretty much every manager I saw on TV over the weekend was on the touch line however undemonstrative or wildly losing it they might have been.

The team needs you in the technical area Nige.

There are rules about what can be sent to the bench for video

Perhaps Nigel would rather trust his own judgement when watching a game from a vantage point and trusts those below to be communicators. Motivationally could actually make players work harder knowing Nige has a view point to see more rather than a touchline view. Other managers/head coaches have spoken on wanting to be up higher but its not the thing in football. There's a reason its done in sports like rugby as it gives a better tactical viewpoint. Personally my opinion is that the decision makers being in a position to give themselves the best possible information is better than having someone conveying what they see.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

Thing is Dave, players are pinging 60 and 70 yard passes from uncontested possession. I can remember 2 on Saturday  from Kelly that came from the edge of their penalty area. Our players don't seem aware of a threat from that position. 

Yep, we got a bit fragmented in our 3 units on Saturday.  Generally the two up top haven’t got isolated this season, so that when a ball is played into midfield, James and whoever has played with him have been closing the receiver down.

On Saturday we were dragged all over the place and the likes of Kelly has acres to move into….then ping a pass. He is such a sweet striker of a ball.  I used to watch him in the practice net pre-game….he used to hammer it effortlessly.

When a ball has that far to travel, you can question whether our full-backs can start a bit wider?

I’m hoping to see a better City tomorrow.  Whether that’s down to the personnel picked, City executing better, or Forest not being at Bournemouth’s level we need a big improvement tomorrow night.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

There are rules about what can be sent to the bench for video

Perhaps Nigel would rather trust his own judgement when watching a game from a vantage point and trusts those below to be communicators. Motivationally could actually make players work harder knowing Nige has a view point to see more rather than a touchline view. Other managers/head coaches have spoken on wanting to be up higher but its not the thing in football. There's a reason its done in sports like rugby as it gives a better tactical viewpoint. Personally my opinion is that the decision makers being in a position to give themselves the best possible information is better than having someone conveying what they see.

You’re clearly someone who is either a coach or someone who is a student of the game judging from your posts (many of which I find interesting, and seem to have an ITK edge to them) However on balance how many successful managers (and that can be the only yardstick) have sat in the stands on a regular basis?

If sitting in the stand is the best option why does Nigel usually end up on the touch line?

If only to try and break the current trend at home I would like to see him on the touch line from the beginning on Tuesday night, it might make the difference, sitting in the stand isn’t winning home games at the moment. Try something  different Nige.

Cheers

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Countryfile said:

You’re clearly someone who is either a coach or someone who is a student of the game judging from your posts (many of which I find interesting, and seem to have an ITK edge to them) However on balance how many successful managers (and that can be the only yardstick) have sat in the stands on a regular basis?

If sitting in the stand is the best option why does Nigel usually end up on the touch line?

If only to try and break the current trend at home I would like to see him on the touch line from the beginning on Tuesday night, it might make the difference, sitting in the stand isn’t winning home games at the moment. Try something  different Nige.

Cheers

No coaches sit in the stands on a consistent basis hence there are none, LJ has gone as far as saying he'd want to but is conscious of the reaction he'd get if he did from the crowd as its not the accepted thing to do. 

[Sleepy1968]

3 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

You’re clearly someone who is either a coach or someone who is a student of the game judging from your posts (many of which I find interesting, and seem to have an ITK edge to them) However on balance how many successful managers (and that can be the only yardstick) have sat in the stands on a regular basis?

If sitting in the stand is the best option why does Nigel usually end up on the touch line?

If only to try and break the current trend at home I would like to see him on the touch line from the beginning on Tuesday night, it might make the difference, sitting in the stand isn’t winning home games at the moment. Try something  different Nige.

Cheers

There are pros and cons of both. I can see why he's doing it, and I can see why it irks some that he does. Personally I don't care what he does if we're winning ...

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

There are pros and cons of both. I can see why he's doing it, and I can see why it irks some that he does. Personally I don't care what he does if we're winning ...

But we aren’t winning (at home), so what exactly is the pro? It just seems to me that as the focal point of the club he should be close to the action, I don’t think any opposition managers have sat in the stand at AG this season.

I’m not pretending it will solve all of our home problems, but he’s got to do something different, and if not, why not?

[Redrascal2]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

But we aren’t winning (at home), so what exactly is the pro? It just seems to me that as the focal point of the club he should be close to the action, I don’t think any opposition managers have sat in the stand at AG this season.

I’m not pretending it will solve all of our home problems, but he’s got to do something different, and if not, why not?

Whether NP succeeds or not, I doubt he needs to be told where to sit to get better results. 

[Pezo]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

But we aren’t winning (at home), so what exactly is the pro? It just seems to me that as the focal point of the club he should be close to the action, I don’t think any opposition managers have sat in the stand at AG this season.

I’m not pretending it will solve all of our home problems, but he’s got to do something different, and if not, why not?

Didn't he answer that in his last interview to say he wouldn't be pitch side. He goes where he thinks it will have the best chance of us winning, with all his experience I'm going to trust him to be where he is needed.

I also see his role as bit different to managers previously and other managers, he's certainly not a hands on coach, he seems more like a puppet master (rather than the blood and thunder type I expected of him - he seems rather zen), he seems to provide very clear guidance and requests to the players - they all seem to comment on this but he is already seemly a bit more removed and maybe a toe in that that DoF role we keep banging on about.

[GrahamC]

4 hours ago, frenchred said:

I would say the sign of a good coach is points won (especially at home!)

Do you get more points for wins at home then?

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Some good comment here about how narrow we are and the space we leave on the flanks. Everyone hits is on the diagonals . It’s clear and everyone does it . To win at home we need to have options going forward . We are limited sadly . So this season is going to be painful . We need skill , pace and power . We don’t have that . 

A lack of possession doesn't help either...it was alright earlier in the season but we have been steadily regressing in that regard over time.

[frenchred]

50 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Do you get more points for wins at home then?

We don't get any at the moment!

[The Swan and Cemetery]

3 minutes ago, frenchred said:

We don't get any at the moment!

Apart from away where we get quite a lot.

[Red-Robbo]

18 hours ago, Countryfile said:

I fail to see the value one NP sitting in the stand and then relaying his thoughts to someone else to try and convey to the players.

If Nige wants to know what’s going on from on high he could either give that role to one of the assistant coaches or with todays technology watch a live feed from the cameras.

His role is to guide, motivate and enthuse the players singly and collectively, I don’t think he can do that from the stands.

It maybe that due to his recent illnesses he feels the need to take a detached and remote view to avoid stressing himself, I don’t know, that maybe complete nonsense, what I do know is that pretty much every manager I saw on TV over the weekend was on the touch line however undemonstrative or wildly losing it they might have been.

The team needs you in the technical area Nige.

 

I agree.

One of the things Pearson has going for him, is he's a bit of an intimidating presence.

He's the sort of presence who players won't want to annoy - although they'll respect him, he's been scrupulously fair in how he treats them and speaks about them in public.

Also the big personality can help influence match officials.

Sat in the stands, he's out of sight, out of mind. 

On Saturday, we saw our morale collapse in the face of very technically adept opposition.  Big Nige roaring them on from the touchline may have given them that extra 5% of belief that could have helped them cope and give a decent account of themselves.

[Lrrr]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I agree.

One of the things Pearson has going for him, is he's a bit of an intimidating presence.

He's the sort of presence who players won't want to annoy - although they'll respect him, he's been scrupulously fair in how he treats them and speaks about them in public.

Also the big personality can help influence match officials.

Sat in the stands, he's out of sight, out of mind. 

On Saturday, we saw our morale collapse in the face of very technically adept opposition.  Big Nige roaring them on from the touchline may have given them that extra 5% of belief that could have helped them cope and give a decent account of themselves.

It would be the other way for me, better view of the pitch so he’s got a better view of me (as a player) and what I’m doing. If I’m not up to scratch he’ll see it clearer then he would on the touchline. 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

It would be the other way for me, better view of the pitch so he’s got a better view of me (as a player) and what I’m doing. If I’m not up to scratch he’ll see it clearer then he would on the touchline. 

think tonight is one to delegate Downing to the stands.

[Davefevs]

one think I noticed on Saturday was Bentley's positioning....he was much more advanced, ready to play sweeper-keeper if need be.  Its been a criticism of mine that he starts too deep.  Hopefully this has been noticed and coached in.

[Red-Robbo]

51 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

It would be the other way for me, better view of the pitch so he’s got a better view of me (as a player) and what I’m doing. If I’m not up to scratch he’ll see it clearer then he would on the touchline. 

But he'll only call you out on it during the 15 minutes of h/t.

I'm not opposed to getting a higher view on things. I used to advocate Lee Johnson doing it, as the game he seemed to be watching from the touchline was totally different to what we all seemed to watch in the stands, frequently. 

I just think when morale is taking a battering, having the head honcho encouraging you, shouting instant instructions and being within touching distance, might be an advantage. 

It's why managers the world over do it. 

[Lrrr]

27 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

But he'll only call you out on it during the 15 minutes of h/t.

I'm not opposed to getting a higher view on things. I used to advocate Lee Johnson doing it, as the game he seemed to be watching from the touchline was totally different to what we all seemed to watch in the stands, frequently. 

I just think when morale is taking a battering, having the head honcho encouraging you, shouting instant instructions and being within touching distance, might be an advantage. 

It's why managers the world over do it. 

radio to the bench where someone on the touchline can communicate

Managers over the world do it because everyone else does it, not many are brave enough to try something else, as we're seeing here with Pearson, tries something else and fans criticise him for doing it rather than being on the touchline.