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England. Game behind closed doors


italian dave
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It was a total shambles - The FA, Met and the Government should hold their heads...the fine and behind closed doors game are irrelevant. The damage to this country's well built reputation for holding successful major international events (96 Euros and 2012 Olympics) has been shattered. The final's organisation reflected the current leadership of this country...arrogant, unprepared and shambolic in its approach. The ticketless hoards that packed the Olympic Way personified an international view that English football fans are jingoistic, self-indulgent, undisciplined and out of control thugs..... even when the vast majority are not!

We can kiss goodbyeee to any thoughts of world cup finals here, even if we have the best stadia and infrastructure in Europe...it makes me weep to think that Germany and Spain will have hosted 2 world cups each since we last did.....

No doubt the powers that be and terminally stupid will say it's the "dirty foreigner's fault that we are not chosen, Brexit and all that...

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39 minutes ago, adamski said:

It was a total shambles - The FA, Met and the Government should hold their heads...the fine and behind closed doors game are irrelevant. The damage to this country's well built reputation for holding successful major international events (96 Euros and 2012 Olympics) has been shattered. The final's organisation reflected the current leadership of this country...arrogant, unprepared and shambolic in its approach. The ticketless hoards that packed the Olympic Way personified an international view that English football fans are jingoistic, self-indulgent, undisciplined and out of control thugs..... even when the vast majority are not!

We can kiss goodbyeee to any thoughts of world cup finals here, even if we have the best stadia and infrastructure in Europe...it makes me weep to think that Germany and Spain will have hosted 2 world cups each since we last did.....

No doubt the powers that be and terminally stupid will say it's the "dirty foreigner's fault that we are not chosen, Brexit and all that...

1982 and ?

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Home tournaments are rubbish and for the second biggest game in the world behind the World Cup final it was a total shambles from the time we got of the tube to the time we left Wembley. Hope Spain and Portugal get it 

 

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3 hours ago, adamski said:

It was a total shambles - The FA, Met and the Government should hold their heads...the fine and behind closed doors game are irrelevant. The damage to this country's well built reputation for holding successful major international events (96 Euros and 2012 Olympics) has been shattered. The final's organisation reflected the current leadership of this country...arrogant, unprepared and shambolic in its approach. The ticketless hoards that packed the Olympic Way personified an international view that English football fans are jingoistic, self-indulgent, undisciplined and out of control thugs..... even when the vast majority are not!

We can kiss goodbyeee to any thoughts of world cup finals here, even if we have the best stadia and infrastructure in Europe...it makes me weep to think that Germany and Spain will have hosted 2 world cups each since we last did.....

No doubt the powers that be and terminally stupid will say it's the "dirty foreigner's fault that we are not chosen, Brexit and all that...

Hang on and remember that the home of English football does not BELONG to England any more - so if the stewarding is poor who is it down to?

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11 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Should the FA really be expected to have power over what members of the public say more so than serious security breaches at their events?

The fine from UEFA, £100,000 for this vs ~£15,000 when it’s a racism charge 

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18 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

The fine from UEFA, £100,000 for this vs ~£15,000 when it’s a racism charge 

The simple fact is that there should not be a fine for racism at all - there should very simply be instant EXPULSION  and a ban, from any tournament that it occurs in.

That should happen to both countries and clubs.

I would extend that to any player who is found guilty of racist remarks should face the fact that his club or country, whoever he is playing for at that time, is instantly banned from that tournament, regardless of the result of the game in question.

I am also hugely in favor of teams walking off when racism is coming from the crowd - and refusing to return.

I remember Spain v England, not sure of the year but Sven was the manager, and screaming at the TV for him to take the team off the pitch in response to the Spanish racism.

It would only take a few instances of action such as that to start to make a difference.

 

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9 hours ago, dave36 said:

Hang on and remember that the home of English football does not BELONG to England any more - so if the stewarding is poor who is it down to?

It was not the stewarding, the whole set up was piss poor...no outer security cordon meant that a large group could easily congregate and charge the (temporary) barriers and stewards.....the police were no where to be seen until very late in....so, proactive and planned security 0 coked and pissed chancers 1!

That would never have happened at the Olympics where you passed through an outer security barrier and then the turnstiles.

Same city....different planners...useless coppers

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1 hour ago, adamski said:

It was not the stewarding, the whole set up was piss poor...no outer security cordon meant that a large group could easily congregate and charge the (temporary) barriers and stewards.....the police were no where to be seen until very late in....so, proactive and planned security 0 coked and pissed chancers 1!

That would never have happened at the Olympics where you passed through an outer security barrier and then the turnstiles.

Same city....different planners...useless coppers

I don't think the spectators of the olympics had been on the lash for the previous 6 hours...

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58 minutes ago, Strictly Obi said:

Unfortunately most of the blame has to lie at the door of the piss poor England fans themselves, who let  country down big time. 

Yep.  Fuelled by Nationalist media hype, cheap cocaine,  booze and knowing full well that the opportunity to get into the ground was there...

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3 hours ago, adamski said:

It was not the stewarding, the whole set up was piss poor...no outer security cordon meant that a large group could easily congregate and charge the (temporary) barriers and stewards.....the police were no where to be seen until very late in....so, proactive and planned security 0 coked and pissed chancers 1!

That would never have happened at the Olympics where you passed through an outer security barrier and then the turnstiles.

Same city....different planners...useless coppers

I think it’s hard to implement a outer Fench system du to so many people living so close to Wembley 

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2 hours ago, Strictly Obi said:

Unfortunately most of the blame has to lie at the door of the piss poor England fans themselves, who let  country down big time. 

There was some real low life there that day that gave properly never gone to a game in there lives 

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4 hours ago, adamski said:

It was not the stewarding, the whole set up was piss poor...no outer security cordon meant that a large group could easily congregate and charge the (temporary) barriers and stewards.....the police were no where to be seen until very late in....so, proactive and planned security 0 coked and pissed chancers 1!

That would never have happened at the Olympics where you passed through an outer security barrier and then the turnstiles.

Same city....different planners...useless coppers

Firstly, England fans first and foremost need to take a huge portion of responsibility for how they conducted themselves.

Secondly, the setup of Wembley makes it difficult for an outer security. They tried it with the Covid measures but because of the steps and the road it's a bit of a nightmare and safety risk.

Thirdly, Wembley has hosted how many finals since it's rebuild? How many times has this happened? How many times did it happen even at this tournament? It was a one off, mostly caused by the fans. I've been to FA Cup finals and never seen any sign of this sort of issue. People got pissed up and god knows what else for many hours and loads turned up without tickets. There's talk of stewards being paid off to let peopple in, of course that needs investigating if true.

To blame the coppers is just a cheap attack. It would be the people above them organising and co-ordinating. once, the situation had started there's only so much they could do.

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13 hours ago, Lrrr said:

The fine from UEFA, £100,000 for this vs ~£15,000 when it’s a racism charge 

 

12 hours ago, Lrrr said:

How? The difference UEFA fines for things like this v racism charges

And yet people will say there's no need for taking the knee etc.

These differences clearly show that racism is not taken seriously enough. We've received a much greater fine (we deserve to be sanctioned btw) and almost the same in terms of stadium ban as a time that has had FIVE acts of racism & homophobia in about 3 months. All 3 of their Euro's games there were reports of racism and homophobia, and then both games against England there were racist incidents.

What happened at Wembley was disgraceful, and should absolutely be sanctioned, but it was a one-off (in modern times) and nowhere near the same level as thousands of fans racially abusing players during a game - throwing objects at them etc. How long until a player is actually attacked on the pitch? Should players be attending games in eastern Europe fearing for their safety?

A fine and a couple of games ban is nowhere near enough sanction for what Hungary fans did, and again shows the lack of seriousness that racism is treated with.

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34 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Firstly, England fans first and foremost need to take a huge portion of responsibility for how they conducted themselves.

Secondly, the setup of Wembley makes it difficult for an outer security. They tried it with the Covid measures but because of the steps and the road it's a bit of a nightmare and safety risk.

Thirdly, Wembley has hosted how many finals since it's rebuild? How many times has this happened? How many times did it happen even at this tournament? It was a one off, mostly caused by the fans. I've been to FA Cup finals and never seen any sign of this sort of issue. People got pissed up and god knows what else for many hours and loads turned up without tickets. There's talk of stewards being paid off to let peopple in, of course that needs investigating if true.

To blame the coppers is just a cheap attack. It would be the people above them organising and co-ordinating. once, the situation had started there's only so much they could do.

I agree with this. 

It's easy to criticise the police and the security - and, as you say, it's important to investigate whether any steward did anything wrong, dangerous or illegal - but I don't think the police and the stewards could reasonably have anticipated the level of crowd trouble and attempts to gatecrash that happened. Clearly there is a need to up security in the future but responsibility ultimately lies with the people who chose to force their in without a ticket and/or to misbehave in and around the stadium. Sadly, as ever, it's mostly the law-abiding fans and the players who pay the price as we have a game without attendees but responsibility has to lie with the idiots who spoil things for everyone else. 

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42 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. 

It's easy to criticise the police and the security - and, as you say, it's important to investigate whether any steward did anything wrong, dangerous or illegal - but I don't think the police and the stewards could reasonably have anticipated the level of crowd trouble and attempts to gatecrash that happened. Clearly there is a need to up security in the future but responsibility ultimately lies with the people who chose to force their in without a ticket and/or to misbehave in and around the stadium. Sadly, as ever, it's mostly the law-abiding fans and the players who pay the price as we have a game without attendees but responsibility has to lie with the idiots who spoil things for everyone else. 

Really !!! even though it was bad early  / mid morning and got progressively worse during the day. Don't need to have a crystal ball to see what was going to happen the closer the kick off time approached. I admit I have not been to the 'new' Wembley but surely it wouldn't be difficult to stop people going on to Wembley way who didn't have a ticket for the game. (would any Police Force anywhere else in Europe have allowed scenes like that to occur ?).

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Firstly, England fans first and foremost need to take a huge portion of responsibility for how they conducted themselves.

Secondly, the setup of Wembley makes it difficult for an outer security. They tried it with the Covid measures but because of the steps and the road it's a bit of a nightmare and safety risk.

Thirdly, Wembley has hosted how many finals since it's rebuild? How many times has this happened? How many times did it happen even at this tournament? It was a one off, mostly caused by the fans. I've been to FA Cup finals and never seen any sign of this sort of issue. People got pissed up and god knows what else for many hours and loads turned up without tickets. There's talk of stewards being paid off to let peopple in, of course that needs investigating if true.

To blame the coppers is just a cheap attack. It would be the people above them organising and co-ordinating. once, the situation had started there's only so much they could do.

That is true and someone has been charged with trying to flog their stewards uniform on facebook for £4,500.

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1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Really !!! even though it was bad early  / mid morning and got progressively worse during the day. Don't need to have a crystal ball to see what was going to happen the closer the kick off time approached. I admit I have not been to the 'new' Wembley but surely it wouldn't be difficult to stop people going on to Wembley way who didn't have a ticket for the game. (would any Police Force anywhere else in Europe have allowed scenes like that to occur ?).

Appreciate you've not been but no way you could stop access to Wembley way, there's shops and flats all around the area. It starts straight out of the tube station too so you'd have severe backlogs in the station if you were checking everyone leaving there. It's just not possible to do that. 

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