England. Game behind closed doors

[Hxj]

18 hours ago, dave36 said:

Hang on and remember that the home of English football does not BELONG to England any more

Who does it belong to?

[adamski]

4 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Firstly, England fans first and foremost need to take a huge portion of responsibility for how they conducted themselves.

Secondly, the setup of Wembley makes it difficult for an outer security. They tried it with the Covid measures but because of the steps and the road it's a bit of a nightmare and safety risk.

Thirdly, Wembley has hosted how many finals since it's rebuild? How many times has this happened? How many times did it happen even at this tournament? It was a one off, mostly caused by the fans. I've been to FA Cup finals and never seen any sign of this sort of issue. People got pissed up and god knows what else for many hours and loads turned up without tickets. There's talk of stewards being paid off to let peopple in, of course that needs investigating if true.

To blame the coppers is just a cheap attack. It would be the people above them organising and co-ordinating. once, the situation had started there's only so much they could do.

The coppers should have seen it coming, I arrived there at 2pm and it was clear something was going seriously wrong, there was no intervention, it's not a cheap attack, they only showed up in numbers at about 6pm after several successful outer ring breeches had happened. 

FA cup finals are regular and interest a lower number of fans

They could have used the Glastonbury perimeter fence around Wembley, easy to erect and simple to open up for access during periods when the stadium was not in use...as used during the Olympics!

[Coxy27]

18 hours ago, Lrrr said:

How? The difference UEFA fines for things like this v racism charges

I just quickly looked up some charges: How Uefa has punished racism in the past decade: the full (and farcical) list of fines and sanctions (inews.co.uk)

They vary a lot depending on what happened in each incident, some are pretty similar to this fine.

But anyway, I still fail to see the relevance. How can you, I, or any sporting body compare things like racism, and/or major security breaches? Can you say that racism from fans is inherently "worse" than a major security breach like this in what was one of the most high profile matches in football? I can't. They're not the same, not comparable, so the fines must be viewed in isolation. Compare this fine and punishment England have got to other crowd unrest fines and it is quite a hefty one.

Your comparison, to me, is apples and oranges.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Coxy27

[Lrrr]

6 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

I just quickly looked up some charges: How Uefa has punished racism in the past decade: the full (and farcical) list of fines and sanctions (inews.co.uk)

They vary a lot depending on what happened in each incident, some are pretty similar to this fine.

But anyway, I still fail to see the relevance. How can you, I, or any sporting body compare things like racism, and/or major security breaches? Can you say that racism from fans is inherently "worse" than a major security breach like this in what was one of the most high profile matches in football? I can't. They're not the same, not comparable, so the fines must be viewed in isolation. Compare this fine and punishment England have got to other crowd unrest fines and it is quite a hefty one.

Your comparison, to me, is apples and oranges.

Errr YES!

[Rocking Red Cyril]

I blame the Welsh 

[Bedred31]

Whose carrying the can for this? Anyone? Or more likely, as this is Britain, have they already ‘failed upwards’? One match behind closed doors will cost the FA £4-5m in lost revenue. I was at the Final and everything- transport, stewarding, policing, ticketing, covid security- literally everything unravelled completely. I’ve been at England games home and away since the early 80’s and honestly I’ve never seen such a shambles. Now I’m barred from a game next June. And the resignations? Just shameful.

[MarcusX]

16 hours ago, adamski said:

The coppers should have seen it coming, I arrived there at 2pm and it was clear something was going seriously wrong, there was no intervention, it's not a cheap attack, they only showed up in numbers at about 6pm after several successful outer ring breeches had happened. 

FA cup finals are regular and interest a lower number of fans

They could have used the Glastonbury perimeter fence around Wembley, easy to erect and simple to open up for access during periods when the stadium was not in use...as used during the Olympics!

I take "coppers" to mean the people on the ground. It's not their fault, it's whoever led the operation from above.

The fans still take the ultimate responsibility. I don't understand why we live in a society where the people causing the trouble get off without persecution whilst the people doing their best to protect people are criticised.

[Coxy27]

10 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Errr YES!

Great, good for you.

[adamski]

On 20/10/2021 at 08:31, MarcusX said:

I take "coppers" to mean the people on the ground. It's not their fault, it's whoever led the operation from above.

The fans still take the ultimate responsibility. I don't understand why we live in a society where the people causing the trouble get off without persecution whilst the people doing their best to protect people are criticised.

Yes, well we could apply that logic to any situation that requires law enforcement…back in the real world however… by coppers I refer to those senior officers who are paid handsomely from the public purse to protect those responsible law abiding citizens who need such things…their lack of planning, early intervention ensured that by the time they deployed their hapless foot soldiers a large scale confrontation was unavoidable…. They failed to protect their own officers and their paymasters…..well deserved criticism, should have been sacked!