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Nottingham Forest at home match day thread


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10 hours ago, Lucan said:

I've never seen a player who people give so many excuses for as Wells 

Face it, he's been a flop

 

 

 

 

Don't disagree with that. Buy not sure he is at fault for not scoring that opportunity given where was shooting from. 

If it goes in everyone is saying what a superb finish it was. If the keeper did not pull that save off everyone is raving about the quality of the finish. 

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3 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

You sure it wasn't when city lost to Preston 2-0 at home in the 99/00 season?

Madness

Madness?

We've won 27/76 since. That's a pretty awful return, and results aside some pretty big capitulations in there, as I said Sunderland and Hull spring to mind, 3 more this season?

we'd won 7/12 at home up til that Wolves game in the league (plus beaten a few prem teams, notably United)

11/23 the season before that and 7/23 in the season we survived when Cotts left (would be a little unfair to mention the 16/23 in our League 1 season)

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2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Madness?

We've won 27/76 since. That's a pretty awful return, and results aside some pretty big capitulations in there, as I said Sunderland and Hull spring to mind, 3 more this season?

we'd won 7/12 at home up til that Wolves game in the league (plus beaten a few prem teams, notably United)

11/23 the season before that and 7/23 in the season we survived when Cotts left (would be a little unfair to mention the 16/23 in our League 1 season)

It's a totally different squad of players.

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1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

In total !

Remember he had relative success for at least the first 3 years of that, top 8 in the league and League cup run and then had to sell all of his best players.

This manager has won 6 of 28 in the league and lost to a league 2 team in the cup and we look a shambles.

How are Sunderland getting on ?

And had a shit load of money to replace them with, which apart from Webster he and Ashton screwed up.
 

Hence the absolute mess we are now in - just about being able to scrape the pennies from down the back of the sofa to buy a fullback from Carlisle for £350k. It’s not comparing like for like or anywhere near it. 

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1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

Cooper inherited a very good set of players that Houghton could not get a tune out of,  our manager inherited a legacy of shit, caused in part by a drone loving, grass measuring, spend a bit of time in A&E watching young manager and his apprentice, that’s not to say that all our current issues are down to them, but that’s what Pearson has had to pick up and deal with, with no money to spend.

If it was your company under performing, would you employ the bright looking intern, or bring in an experienced consultant?

 

He inherited some good players 

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8 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Probably both shots on target contributed to the goal. First shot on target from Wells that was saved and the rebound to Scott which went in. Apart from that move, nothing else was on target 

Think you'll find we had more than two shots on target. After all their keeper saved a shot from Wells in the first half, the goal and the save the keeper made in the 2nd half (which cannot be chalked as a shit on goal as the ref gave a goal kick). Stats, stats, and damned lies ???

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9 hours ago, sludge said:

If our record was reversed and we’d been winning most of our home games and losing most away, the frustration and anger would be much less even though we’d be on exactly the same points!

Or even if we'd just hung on to beat Blackpool and Luton but drawn at QPR and Pboro instead of winning those games late on. I guarantee that there'd barely a murmur of discontent, aside from the odd few who never have anything good to say.

  • Like 2
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8 hours ago, billywedlock said:

The lack of technical ability in midfield and up front was most evident. The inability to control the ball and make passes seems out of our scope right now. The early season pressing is also somewhat diluted . There is clearly a lack of confidence in the side that is making matters worse. There are no quick solutions , no magic wand. The squad is not a great squad , it has too many compromises and is lacking in pace, abilty and power. It looks like we will need to move another 5/6 between Jan window and next summer. So this season is a huge compromise and will again be about survival. A home win  will come, and it will give everyone the confidence on and off the field. But Pearson cannot turn around the mess we were. (are) in unless we give him (or anyone else for that matter) more time. The squad needs a striker and a genuine wide player asap. 

Have to say this is spot on. But have you noticed that the ability to do lal of this has disappeared since Massengo got injured?

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Just now, AshtonGreat said:

He inherited some good players 

I was not just referring to the playing side, but he did inherit a large squad, a big wage bill and a whole heap of players approaching the end of their contracts. There are some good players there and with the right additions it’ll be a good team. I’ve been impressed with the incomings with the budget he’s had to play with. 
 

Perhaps I’m over optimistic, but I do think that Pearson will turn this club around, if given the time and support.

 

  • Like 1
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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Only part of a reason why they got the ball into the position they did to win the penalty. 

I think we were playing kind of a 5311 by the end with Palmer in behind O'Dowda. But Palmer occasionally went central left and kind of made it 541. Just seemed like too much room on our left, as Weimann took up a wide right position and no one on the left side in a similar role protecting Dasilva.

Palmer and O'Dowda going to the player with the ball and an easy pass into the Forest player who then had plenty of time to pick his pass.

1942090699_Screenshot2021-10-20at07_46_10.thumb.png.a91f9dbf412618ce8a54f4a3de7bd6e3.png

1423748968_Screenshot2021-10-20at07_56_14.thumb.png.31d556b6f424bebae43bb34056bd5977.png

 

Massengo could come but really its something O'Dowda and Palmer have to do better at together. 

 

856946806_Screenshot2021-10-20at07_49_41.thumb.png.1120351d3c6faad74e00b20643470e54.png

 

The biggest mistake was this though of course! Baker got away with one first half where he needlessly went to ground and got a toe to the ball before their player hit the post. And this time again it was poorly judged. He did some good bits of defending, but he has always had a mistake in him. 

It was painful watching those final 10 or so minutes. On Baker again, he for some reason with just minutes left at 1-0 up kicked a ball out of play when there was an easy pass to Massengo right next to him in space. He also headed a ball out for a throw when it looked like he could have nodded it to one of our players. Giving away possession when no need to is frustrating. Just invites more pressure.

Massengo was a bit sloppy givoing the ball away twice. Once a heavy touch when dribbling, and another time a pass down the line, but if he'd looked up then O'Dowda was stationary wanting it to feet. 

At one point as they had the ball on our left and we had 9 players in our box and Weimann running up top out of the picture, our team stood and no one engaged assuming their player was going to put the ball in first time. So he dribbled towards our box and then we had to engage, luckily putting in a poor overhit cross. Things like that show a lack of cohesion.

Palmer looked a bit lost imo. He lacks game intelligence which Pearson has said himself. Things like O'Dowda pressing their player down the right channel, Palmer cutting out the goalkeeper as a back pass option, all spot on up till then. So the player has to chip it down the line where Weimann heads it towards Palmer now in a striker position. Palmer had not thought about getting back into an onside position and in a position to receive a ball if we won back possession and commits a foul. Might not seem a big thing but all these little things is what means we can't keep possession.

On O'Dowda, he didnt really do anything that actually worked, but he could have been played in on goal twice. Once Dasilva attempted to pass to feet when O'Dowda had started to make a run and would have been in with loads of space behind to attack. Would have been quite a simple chipped ball, though would have meant Dasilva using his right foot!

And another time O'Dowda made the defender think he wanted a ball by Weimann down the line, and once his movement had dragged his defender towards the touchline then O'Dowda had created space for a change of direction and a ball over the top for him to be away. Weimann thought O'Dowda wanted it the way he was initially going down the line and possession was lost.

I wonder if it would have been better to have gone 442 with Weimann and O'Dowda pressing together up top. Bring Pring on instead of Palmer. I think we looked a bit all over the place, though generally we did defend our box well until those final crazy moments. At least with the 442 it's more simple for the players to know their roles and might have helped defend our wide areas better. 

I think back to Swansea away win last season, and how at 2-1 up Swansea struggled to get the ball near our goal. Wouldn't it be better to have better pressure in attacking areas. Weimann still had loads of energy and we know he prefers counter attacking when up top. I think back to O'Dowda and Watkins playing up top at the end of the Boro 3-1 win and really helping relieve pressure. Pressing well and giving them something to worry about.

At that point it is all about finding ways to stop the pressure. Our way seems to be defend our box and look unorganised in front of it and poor in possession. Well that could have worked fine, and has in the past plenty of times. But you have to be spot on defending the box and also sometimes rely on that bit of luck. If Tanner didnt play so well then we would have conceded earlier than we did I am sure. And going by this season we seem to panic defending when trying to see out a win.

 

Ran out of likes, but great post…

got to move away from the Rourke’s Drift type of defending, and certainly not try to do it for long spells as we did last night, where’s Michael Caine when you need him….

  • Like 2
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9 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Probably both shots on target contributed to the goal. First shot on target from Wells that was saved and the rebound to Scott which went in. Apart from that move, nothing else was on target 

At risk of incurring the wrath of those who incorrectly believe there's something worth persisting with with Wells, his shot, parried by the keeper, was going wide. Our 2nd shot on target was Flappy's tame header easily mopped up by their keeper early doors, though so weak as easy to miss.

Wells, like Martin, again registered zero shots on target, but no surprises there.

Edited by BTRFTG
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43 minutes ago, lenred said:

And had a shit load of money to replace them with, which apart from Webster he and Ashton screwed up.
 

Hence the absolute mess we are now in - just about being able to scrape the pennies from down the back of the sofa to buy a fullback from Carlisle for £350k. It’s not comparing like for like or anywhere near it. 

How much did he bring in in transfer fees compared to the amount he spent on replacements ?

 

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2 hours ago, Rob k said:

Is is NP fault that’s Scott puts a shot wide from 5 yards out? Stats only tell a small part of the story. 

Funny then that Cooper's turned Forest around because he famously is a data driven man.

Given there's so much money riding on such matters these days the data isn't often wrong. Several rose-tinted here have referenced their keeper saving Wells shot on target for our goal, save it wasn't, it was going wide. Having seen the replay I'm not convinced their keeper touched Wells shot against the post either (there's no noticeable deflection) and as the officials were closer than I I've no reason to think they got it wrong. Given there was no perceived deflection the shot wouldn't have registered on target anyway given it hit the post.

You are correct in stating stats do not tell the whole story. In the case of the front 3 if they, too, recorded poor and badly controlled touches plus 'taking the wrong option', that the front 3 are an utter waste of space wouldn't be in doubt.

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1 hour ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Think Weimann needs a spell out of the starting 11, as soon as he gets the ball you just know its gonna go wrong.

 

1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

I think Wiemann brings pace, clearly useful for the press, plus intelligent running into space, perhaps too intelligent for those playing the balls forward. What he’s not so good at though is holding onto the ball especially centrally and slightly deeper, that role really does not suit him.

I'm often critical of Weimann but I though he did lots of good work last night. But there was one moment that really encapsulated Weimann: he picked the ball up in defence and drove forward. He escaped a challenge and drove into the opposition half. He's taken it from defence to attack with real positive intent and then...he can't make his mind up what to do and is easily tackled. Sums him up completely.

51 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Only part of a reason why they got the ball into the position they did to win the penalty. 

I think we were playing kind of a 5311 by the end with Palmer in behind O'Dowda. But Palmer occasionally went central left and kind of made it 541. Just seemed like too much room on our left, as Weimann took up a wide right position and no one on the left side in a similar role protecting Dasilva.

Palmer and O'Dowda going to the player with the ball and an easy pass into the Forest player who then had plenty of time to pick his pass.

1942090699_Screenshot2021-10-20at07_46_10.thumb.png.a91f9dbf412618ce8a54f4a3de7bd6e3.png

1423748968_Screenshot2021-10-20at07_56_14.thumb.png.31d556b6f424bebae43bb34056bd5977.png

 

Massengo could come but really its something O'Dowda and Palmer have to do better at together. 

 

856946806_Screenshot2021-10-20at07_49_41.thumb.png.1120351d3c6faad74e00b20643470e54.png

 

The biggest mistake was this though of course! Baker got away with one first half where he needlessly went to ground and got a toe to the ball before their player hit the post. And this time again it was poorly judged. He did some good bits of defending, but he has always had a mistake in him. 

It was painful watching those final 10 or so minutes. On Baker again, he for some reason with just minutes left at 1-0 up kicked a ball out of play when there was an easy pass to Massengo right next to him in space. He also headed a ball out for a throw when it looked like he could have nodded it to one of our players. Giving away possession when no need to is frustrating. Just invites more pressure.

Massengo was a bit sloppy givoing the ball away twice. Once a heavy touch when dribbling, and another time a pass down the line, but if he'd looked up then O'Dowda was stationary wanting it to feet. 

At one point as they had the ball on our left and we had 9 outfield players in our box and Weimann running up top out of the picture, our team stood and no one engaged assuming their player was going to put the ball in first time. So he dribbled towards our box and then we had to engage, luckily putting in a poor overhit cross. Things like that show a lack of cohesion.

Palmer looked a bit lost imo. He lacks game intelligence which Pearson has said himself. Things like O'Dowda pressing their player down the right channel, Palmer cutting out the goalkeeper as a back pass option, all spot on up till then. So the player has to chip it down the line where Weimann heads it towards Palmer now in a striker position. Palmer had not thought about getting back into an onside position and in a position to receive a ball if we won back possession and commits a foul. Might not seem a big thing but all these little things is what means we can't keep possession.

On O'Dowda, he didnt really do anything that actually worked, but he could have been played in on goal twice. Once Dasilva attempted to pass to feet when O'Dowda had started to make a run and would have been in with loads of space behind to attack. Would have been quite a simple chipped ball, though would have meant Dasilva using his right foot!

And another time O'Dowda made the defender think he wanted a ball by Weimann down the line, and once his movement had dragged his defender towards the touchline then O'Dowda had created space for a change of direction and a ball over the top for him to be away. Weimann thought O'Dowda wanted it the way he was initially going down the line and possession was lost.

I wonder if it would have been better to have gone 442 with Weimann and O'Dowda pressing together up top. Bring Pring on instead of Palmer. I think we looked a bit all over the place, though generally we did defend our box well until those final crazy moments. At least with the 442 it's more simple for the players to know their roles and might have helped defend our wide areas better. 

I think back to Swansea away win last season, and how at 2-1 up Swansea struggled to get the ball near our goal. Wouldn't it be better to have better pressure in attacking areas. Weimann still had loads of energy and we know he prefers counter attacking when up top. I think back to O'Dowda and Watkins playing up top at the end of the Boro 3-1 win and really helping relieve pressure. Pressing well and giving them something to worry about.

At that point it is all about finding ways to stop the pressure. Our way seems to be defend our box and look unorganised in front of it and poor in possession. Well that could have worked fine, and has in the past plenty of times. But you have to be spot on defending the box and also sometimes rely on that bit of luck. If Tanner didnt play so well then we would have conceded earlier than we did I am sure. And going by this season we seem to panic defending when trying to see out a win.

 

I understand that NP wanted some attacking outlets on the pitch, but I don't see how Palmer and O'Dowda come on with Pring sitting on the bench. Pring has not only the defensive understanding as well as an ability to carry the ball forward.

Surely we needed JD and Pring on the left, with Tanner and Weimann on the right?! 

My only gripe with Pearson so far is that I often don't understand his substitutions. 

I do sympathise with NP having such a bunch of misfits to work with, but I also think he makes some odd decisions during games, most notably making subs mid 1st half, but also bringing Wells on to play out wide when we have better wide options or leaving tired legs on and making changes elsewhere.

Edited by mozo
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14 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

No I wasn't, I asked the question but no reply,

 

Perhaps the reason nobody bothered to reply is you signally appear ignorant of the fact that transfer fees comprise a minor percentage of the overall liability incurred when signing a player.

Those 67 or so didn't play for nothing and that's why the Johnson/Ashton folly continues to bring this club to its knees.

And if you still need the answer, I suggest you look at the holding accounts, in particular those shortly to be published.

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25 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

How much did he bring in in transfer fees compared to the amount he spent on replacements ?

 

@Davefevs answered this far more accurately than I could just the other day: 

Lee spent £59m on transfer fees alone in 8 Windows (and one emergency loan period), let alone loan fees, agent fees, signing on fees, and wage bill increase.  He brought in really good fees for a small number of players.  In fairness he did have to build the squad up a bit as Cotts was running it on a shoestring.

The wage bill went up every season.  The lowest season spend was £9.7m!

Nige is working under a new remit, already cut costs by £10-12m.  
 

Why do you and others just not get the difference? Crazy. 

  • Like 1
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2 minutes ago, mozo said:

He's taken it from defence to attack with real positive intent and then...he can't make his mind up what to do and is easily tackled.

I'm Flappy's biggest critic, not difficult given he's vastly overrated and contributes little, but here I think you're a tad harsh on him. At the end of his run he had sod all options going for him, was surrounded by opposition and was running out of puff. Were he any good he'd have suddenly decelerated, taken a false step and allowed the bloke chasing to nudge into him, conning for a free kick. Contact though isn't Flappy's game and he tries all out to avoid it.

His dithering choice selection however, you're spot on with that.

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1 minute ago, Jefferz said:

Are you kidding. Every time the outlet ball goes up to him it comes back immediately and we are under pressure. No fight in him 

When the ball is pumped up to Martin to flick on , it’s lost. The ball needs to be played into Martin’s feet or chest not his head 

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There is a tactical, game awareness fault line in our play which allows teams again and again to get in on our box unopposed. When the ball is brought forward and developed down one flank we completely overload that side and a simple ball that switches the play leaves us completely exposed. It’s happened a lot this season

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30 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Perhaps the reason nobody bothered to reply is you signally appear ignorant of the fact that transfer fees comprise a minor percentage of the overall liability incurred when signing a player.

Those 67 or so didn't play for nothing and that's why the Johnson/Ashton folly continues to bring this club to its knees.

And if you still need the answer, I suggest you look at the holding accounts, in particular those shortly to be published.

I have my answer, thank you.

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12 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Apologies, I didn’t realise you were only talking about home games - football seasons tend to include a fair amount of away games too so I was looking at the season as a whole ... keep the faith! ?✌️?

I’ve not lost faith (speaking about NP here) and I know we play away games.

But the fact we have a tendency to try and sit on leads (however slim) at home, and have repeatedly capitulated in those games isn’t a great sign of improvement.

Make that mistake once; I’ll accept it is nerves/unfortunate. Twice; it is something to work and focus on in training. Three times; it’s a trend and it’s concerning we’ve not resolved it.

I’m not panicking; I never expected this season to be painless/easy. But I did hope we’d at least be learning and progressive in our performances; very little evidence of that last night.

Edited by samo II
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