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Nottingham Forest at home match day thread


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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

I'm Flappy's biggest critic, not difficult given he's vastly overrated and contributes little, but here I think you're a tad harsh on him. At the end of his run he had sod all options going for him, was surrounded by opposition and was running out of puff. Were he any good he'd have suddenly decelerated, taken a false step and allowed the bloke chasing to nudge into him, conning for a free kick. Contact though isn't Flappy's game and he tries all out to avoid it.

His dithering choice selection however, you're spot on with that.

Yeah I get that view, but I thought he had loads of opportunity to just slow down, turn back a touch and look for a pass but in my opinion he went scampering off like a cockapoo with a stick in it's mouth and then realised he'd run into a brick wall.

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5 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

Not immediately comparable, I like the idea of challenging conceptions and trying new ideas, perhaps LJ might have worked out under a different operational model and without the influence of an all encompassing CEO, who’s to know. I’d love to read whatever book he brings out which covers his time here.

Ironically I think the cup run ruined Johnson’s best chance, as if my memory is right, did we not play Wolves just before Xmas with the chance of going top and then after that once the cup run was over we went into free fall.

the situation now needs football experience and someone who understands the footballing side from top to bottom and someone not previously connected with the running of the club bringing in a level of objectivity we’ve not had for a while…

Interesting post, agree with good chunks of it.

However the Wolves scenario, was more the case that we beat Wolves and that really puts the pressure on them, not just from us but the chasing pack- and sees our confidence soar. As it was, that win meant they had one foot in the PL- we all saw their reaction at the end, just how huge that was for not just us but both sides.

That scenario. Going into Christmas ie the last game before Boxing Day we were pushing for 2nd but Wolves were 10 pts above us.

Wolves go to Millwall and draw, we beat Reading on Boxing Day.

If we then beat Wolves under the lights- as we should have- we go into 2018 in 2nd, while they will have seen their lead halve in a week! Manager and players although of a high level not used to the English game, the hectic winter period- this opens it up not just for us but for a lot of sides.

Especially with a) A lot of the chasing pack to play Monday and Tuesday before Wolves have a tricky home game v Brentford on the Wednesday and b) Wolves and the 2nd half of the season schedule containing trips to Aston Villa, Cardiff and Fulham to name 3.

Tricky trips to sides like Barnsley (struggling but tricky) Mick's Ipswich and Preston during the winter months as well- yes the pressure is on, Middlesbrough away quite late in the season as well.

While for us, it gives us a very healthy lead over the chasing pack for a top 6 finish, and the confidence goes up several notches.

After that Wolves game, I thought we showed flashes. Only flashes however.

Wolves winning in that manner was a big blow however and for them it gave them an 11 point lead over us, which is a significant margin for error and they were right back on track.

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4 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

At risk of incurring the wrath of those who incorrectly believe there's something worth persisting with with Wells, his shot, parried by the keeper, was going wide. Our 2nd shot on target was Flappy's tame header easily mopped up by their keeper early doors, though so weak as easy to miss.

Wells, like Martin, again registered zero shots on target, but no surprises there.

Could you explain the respectable and at times excellent record Wells had at QPR? Granted they played with quite a lot of creativity in his time there...

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45 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could you explain the respectable and at times excellent record Wells had at QPR? Granted they played with quite a lot of creativity in his time there...

Didn't see him play much with them so, no, I couldn't comment.

I have seen enough of him with us though and am frankly amazed at the record he has, which appears far better than his contribution (sic) deserves.

But you're one for stats. It's not necessarily what he's done but what one might expect him to have done given the opportunities provided. Ok he receives scant service but when he does get quality ball he squanders more than he should. He creates little for himself or others.

I struggle to identify what his game is. It certainly isn't based on pace as he has none, nor combativeness as he lacks that, or aerial prowess or an ability to hold the ball up. As demonstrated many times this year his first touch us woeful (just look at his first chance last night when clear through he failed to keep it to feet and was easily dispossessed.)

But the true question is is he worth perseveringly with, is he capable of leading us to recovery? Pearson appears to hold a similar opinion to me in the answer to that question is NO.

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1 minute ago, BTRFTG said:

Didn't see him play much with them so, no, I couldn't comment.

I have seen enough of him with us though and am frankly amazed at the record he has, which appears far better than his contribution (sic) deserves.

But you're one for stats. It's not necessarily what he's done but what one might expect him to have done given the opportunities provided. Ok he receives scant service but when he does get quality ball he squanders more than he should. He creates little for himself or others.

I struggle to identify what his game is. It certainly isn't based on pace as he has none, nor combativeness as he lacks that, or aerial prowess or an ability to hold the ball up. As demonstrated many times this year his first touch us woeful (just look at his first chance last night when clear through he failed to keep it to feet and was easily dispossessed.)

But the true question is is he worth perseveringly with, is he capable of leading us to recovery? Pearson appears to hold a similar opinion to me in the answer to that question is NO.

I think in terms of sides with more creativity around him, he can produce better- his record there with Eze and Osayi-Samuel and at times Chair all in the side was good.

His record with us prior to this season wasn't too bad. You sai this about his all-round game or lack of, yes he can get some goals but he has contributed assist wise albeit not really this season, Forest Green away.

FWIW I wasn't pro signing Wells in Jan 2020, I would have preferred Vydra from Burnley as part of that deal. I think he deserves a go though, if only because Martin if we overplay him will burn out and may eventually get injured.

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Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

think he deserves a go though, if only because Martin if we overplay him will burn out and may eventually get injured.

Shouldn't that read '...deserves TO go...'?

Martin 'burning out'? That assumes he's at sone stage on fire and there's zero chance of that happening. An ability to detect if Martin is injured is surely up there with 'the sound of one hand clapping' or 'Schrodinger's Cat's existence'. How might one determine?

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29 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Shouldn't that read '...deserves TO go...'?

Martin 'burning out'? That assumes he's at sone stage on fire and there's zero chance of that happening. An ability to detect if Martin is injured is surely up there with 'the sound of one hand clapping' or 'Schrodinger's Cat's existence'. How might one determine?

He's been in and out of the side.

Last season, when we played Martin the more he played the less effective he got. He's a player who IMO needs to be managed carefully over a season especially as he is now over 30- Derby under Cocu in 2019/20 showed this to be the case. As for the here and now, 3 goals and 1 assist away from home thusfar, less so at home granted- although I've just watched the highlights back and he got the flick on for the goal. Martin to Wells- Wells shot- saved/parried, Scott scored.

Wells- last season he got 10 goals and 3 assists. Now nobody would say that is spectacular but 36 starts, and 10 sub appearances- it's about 1 in 3.5 in terms of total contribution to the side- not spectacular but better than now. Averaged 66 mins per game, pro-rata that improves matters a bit more. I think him and Weimann in the right setup could linkup well, for certain games.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He's been in and out of the side.

Last season, when we played Martin the more he played the less effective he got. He's a player who IMO needs to be managed carefully over a season- Derby under Cocu in 2019/20 showed this to be the case. 3 goals and 1 assist away from home thusfar, less so at home granted- although I've just watched the highlights back and he got the flick on for the goal. Martin to Wells- Wells shot- saved/parried, Scott scored.

Sorry fella, but if we're at the stage of praising Martin for winning a header we are in dire straits. What about those he doesn't win, never gets near winning, or even gets into a position to win? Spent most of last night 30 yards out, back to goal failing to gain or control possession.

Saturday he threw a strop when their defender went straight over his head, him having stood still, feet planted to turf making no effort to go for the header. The ref made clear to him if he's not going for it then the defender has every right to go over him. He responded by petulantly pushing his marker in the back at the next challenge, again planted to floor and making no effort to compete. Cheap free kick and his opponent made clear he thought to have him in his pocket. He was right.

The one header he should have buried, centre goal, uncontested, on a plate. Powder puff doesn't touch the sides.

Martin needs managing all right - out the door.

 

 

Edited by BTRFTG
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30 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Sorry fella, but if we're at the stage of praising Martin for winning a header we are in dire straits. What about those he doesn't win, never gets near winning, or even gets into a position to win? Spent most of last night 30 yards out, back to goal failing to gain or control possession.

Saturday he threw a strop when their defender went straight over his head, him having stood still, feet planted to turf making no effort to go for the header. The ref made clear to him if he's not going for it then the defender has every right to go over him. He responded by petulantly pushing his marker in the back at the next challenge, again planted to floor and making no effort to compete. Cheap free kick and his opponent made clear he thought to have him in his pocket. He was right.

The one header he should have buried, centre goal, uncontested, on a plate. Powder puff doesn't touch the sides.

Martin needs managing all right - out the door.

 

 

Again, I think he's being overplayed. At Derby in 2019/20, they let him build up carefullyt for a couple of months, until mid-late September and then used him carefully thereafter. He retained his fitness and was effective.

What we do is play him from the start week in, week out and then are surprised when he gets steadily less effective- got a goal v Blackpool, and a goal and assist v Reading- okay since then it's only the goals at QPR and Peterborough. Hitting out long isn't a great tactic either but he's better holdup wise etc than Diedhiou IMO.

I think he needs a rest.

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