A tinge of doubt creeping in

[Kid in the Riot]

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

[Kodjias Wrist]

Watford were relegation fodder in the prem at the time and did he not get them out of relegation zone only to be sacked?

 

 

[BasSavage88]

He's a footballing dinosaur. Put him to rest along with Mick McCarthy, Neil Warnock etc

[Sturny]

Knowing his recent record, why do you still think he’s the best person for the job? Surely it’s best to catch someone on the rise not their fall? People are a bit touchy on here at the moment, so my questions come in peace as I’m just curious 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sturny

[Red Army 75]

I think any manager at this time who accepted the job would struggle at Bristol City. 

[054123]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

Of course there’s every chance he can’t turn this ship around, I would accept that.

My ire is more with how we ended up in 2021 with a bag of shit squad and all the money squandered to the point that FFP was looming like the grim specter of death.

[Dredd]

Pearson isn’t the problem imo it’s the mess of a squad he’s inherited and lack of budget to address it

[Sturny]

2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I think any manager at this time who accepted the job would struggle at Bristol City. 

I’d would really like to believe this, I’ve hated not liking the managers at our club for a while and want Pearson to kick on well. But idk 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sturny

[cidercity1987]

26 points in 22 PL games blimey I would take that any day. No idea about Leuven, a bad spell at Derby but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

[Fuber]

Key factor is that Pearson's infrastructure and micro delegation and appointments at Leicester remain the backbone of that club.

If he can do the same here and lay the ground work, thats enough imo.

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

26 points in 22 PL games blimey I would take that any day. No idea about Leuven, a bad spell at Derby but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

Derby he had a bust with dear old Mel Morris.

[Sturny]

Just now, Fuber said:

Key factor is that Pearson's infrastructure and micro delegation and appointments at Leicester remain the backbone of that club.

If he can do the same here and lay the ground work, thats enough imo.

He couldn’t do that at the past 3 clubs so why are we any special/different ?

[S25loyal]

5 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Knowing his recent record, why do you still think he’s the best person for the job? Surely it’s best to catch someone on the rise not their fall? People are a bit touchy on here at the moment, so my questions come in peace as I’m just curious 

We’re Bristol city, who will we get with a good record that is on the rise?

[Sturny]

Just now, S25loyal said:

We’re Bristol city, who will we get with a good record that is on the rise?

I suppose they don’t need a really good record, on the rise is enough. If it was just a good record appointment then yes NP was as good as it gets for us. 

[Fuber]

Just now, Sturny said:

He couldn’t do that at the past 3 clubs so why are we any special/different ?

1. Watford shouldn't have even sacked him in the first place - worked really well that.

2. I never judge an English manager on an overseas record, sometime it's a case of right man right clubs (Us, GJ; Moyes, West Ham, etc.).

3. Mel Morris.

We are ****** with regards to playing staff, but we at least aren't in Europe ergo abroad, and we have stable ownership and facilities.

If we give him actual time, something he clearly didn't get at Derby or Watford, only then can I judge him.

Ergo this season is a consolidation, next season I'll expect more progression. COYR.

[TV Tom]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

 but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

[S25loyal]

Just now, Sturny said:

I suppose they don’t need a really good record, on the rise is enough. If it was just a good record appointment then yes NP was as good as it gets for us. 

The problem is, with on the rise people then complain we never get an established manager, as historically we never have done.

Nigel is the “biggest” manager we have had.

[Edgy Red]

Nige still has my backing at this stage but i do worry that his management/playing style is becoming a bit outdated.

The old fashioned "build from the back" pragmatic managers (Hughton, McCarthy and Hodgson etc) are finding success harder to come by in the modern game and are being outfoxed by expressive attack minded coaches such as Potter, Howe and Nathan Jones.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it was painfully clear that we needed some offensive reinforcements during the summer, even if they were loans or lower league punts.

I really hope i'm wrong and he can get us going but i am starting to worry a bit now. Tonights result is another damaging outcome that must be affecting the players and staffs confidence and may start to become difficult to shake off?

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

We’re Bristol city, who will we get with a good record that is on the rise?

The likes of Ryan Lowe for example, a young manager who hasn't stopped winning at Plymouth. 

So far this thread has had the reassuring responses I wanted to see. As I said, it's only a tinge of doubt right now. I just worry that a manager can lose that culture of winning, and that appears to be a factor here with Pearson, over many years. 

Not expecting much at WBA but Barnsley at home on the 30th feels like we really need a win. They've only won one game all season, so far. 

[Waconda]

10 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

26 points in 22 PL games blimey I would take that any day. No idea about Leuven, a bad spell at Derby but his record here is about as good as it can be in the situation

Jesus Christ !

[Sturny]

5 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

The problem is, with on the rise people then complain we never get an established manager, as historically we never have done.

Nigel is the “biggest” manager we have had.

I don’t feel like the owners care what we think as much as we think, DH is an example of that IMO. 
 

I agree he is the “biggest” name we could pull out of the hat, but the best for us? Idk anymore. I would say “time will tell” but looking back it’s sorta telling us something. I was completely sold on the NP project but similar to the OP I’m not as confidence as I was! 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sturny

[054123]

4 minutes ago, harrys said:

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

I do see your point, I just have such a lack of belief in our current squad I almost can’t believe somebody else could string 5 wins together 

[ChippenhamRed]

17 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

He's a footballing dinosaur. Put him to rest along with Mick McCarthy, Neil Warnock etc

Neil Warnock who was promoted from the Championship in 2018? And Mick McCarthy who kept Ipswich in the Championship on a shoestring for years? Those dinosaurs yeah?

[ChippenhamRed]

22 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

I share your doubts, a little, but for now I’m pragmatic about it. The home form is a monkey on our back we need to deal with as soon as we can, but at the end of the day we’re a mid-table side in mid-table, and I’m willing to give Pearson the time he needs to build a team.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The likes of Ryan Lowe for example, a young manager who hasn't stopped winning at Plymouth. 

So far this thread has had the reassuring responses I wanted to see. As I said, it's only a tinge of doubt right now. I just worry that a manager can lose that culture of winning, and that appears to be a factor here with Pearson, over many years. 

Not expecting much at WBA but Barnsley at home on the 30th feels like we really need a win. They've only won one game all season, so far. 

We are more likely to win at West Brom than at Home to Barnsley !

Just a thought but might he walk away ? Health issues, lack of budget, left with perceived terrible players (rightly or wrongly). Hope not and I really hope he proves me wrong but currently this is way below expectations and consistent problems are not being corrected - IMO.

[petehinton]

He’s certainly going to do himself No favours the longer the home rot runs. QPR, Peterboro, Reading all brilliant snd fun away days the can mask over the home games to date, to a certain extend. 
 

Issue is, about 5% of our home crowd can make those sorts of games. If the overwhelming majority of fans are just seeing the dross we’ve served up at AG so far this season, it’d be hard to warm to Nige so far. 
 

Still the right man for me. Just can’t see it being remotely pretty until he has another summer transfer window under him

[Xiled]

My main concern is that he felt the two Leicester players would improve us.

Poor judgement of the level both are now capable of playing, not cheap wages and signed during a summer when our limited buying needed to spot on.

[Portland Bill]

19 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I think any manager at this time who accepted the job would struggle at Bristol City. 

Ryan Lowe was the man we should have got, but he wasn’t a big enough name for most on here.

His record speaks for himself. 

[Ostrich]

I think you might have brought him in too late in a sense. For both yours and his sake, had he been with you when he was at Leuven things probably would have been better all round because he may well have been able to influence a better structure that meant you didn’t spaff millions on some of the dross that you’ve had.

Leuven didn’t work out for many reasons, I think he said himself he made big mistakes and took his eye off the football trying to be involved in too much at the club. Leuven fans will also say he was naive to the division and for a long time it was pretty grim - that he almost took them down is pretty bad, had he done that would have been scandalous for their budget in that league.

But also he’s clearly taken the wrong jobs. He said he should never have taken the Derby job, and looking at Derby it’s not hard to see why that might be, Watford was never going to suit him (although he did ok there) and Leuven, sits between.

Idk whether he can succeed but he has to be given time to stamp his mark on the side. He’s had a summer operating in a structure that has blatantly failed and has only been able to bring in 3 players that can play plus 2 more bodies. Culture was so vital to what he built at Leicester that he will struggle to succeed anywhere where he doesn’t get the chance to stamp his mark in that respect. I’m not saying you’ve got a bunch of wrong ‘uns but he was fortunate at Leicester that he a)had some of his players left from his first spell and b)was able to spend a bit of cash early and add his bodies quickly, getting pretty much spot on too.

 The home form is rotten, there’s no excuses. It’s worth saying we had some dire spells with him in charge too. 12/13 where we won about 3 games in 20 at the end of the season, bottling promotion and culminating in the Deeney moment. The Great Escape was also not possible without the 3 wins in 26 or whatever it was before that.

For me, from what I’ve seen, the squad he has had consistently available just isn’t quite there. Players like Palmer and Bakinson remind me of players like Neil Danns and Matt Mills who Pearson wanted shot of cos they’re just not right for the environment he wants. Players like O’Dowda are just a bit meh. Martin scored a few but I’m not sure what else he offers

Having said that I think Williams (not seen a huge amount of admittedly), James and Massengo could be a really decent midfield 3 if they got consistent time on the pitch together, Bentley is a decent keeper, and the options at CB are alright. It’s around that there’s a problem, both in the first 11 and the depth. Just a real lack of pace, power and technique. It’s a squad that is where it probably should be, it’s not miles off but needs some upgrades and the thing is, even with the transfers that didn’t quite work out, I struggle to fault the recruitment during either of his spells at Leicester. Whether that was just right man, right place, right time or whether he can replicate it, idk

[054123]

1 minute ago, Xiled said:

My main concern is that he felt the two Leicester players would improve us.

Poor judgement of the level both are now capable of playing, not cheap wages and signed during a summer when our limited buying needed to spot on.

I think James has done alright.

Given how I presume their contracts are accounted for I don’t see them as bad signings.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Ostrich said:

I think you might have brought him in too late in a sense. For both yours and his sake, had he been with you when he was at Leuven things probably would have been better all round because he may well have been able to influence a better structure that meant you didn’t spaff millions on some of the dross that you’ve had.

Leuven didn’t work out for many reasons, I think he said himself he made big mistakes and took his eye off the football trying to be involved in too much at the club. Leuven fans will also say he was naive to the division and for a long time it was pretty grim - that he almost took them down is pretty bad, had he done that would have been scandalous for their budget in that league.

But also he’s clearly taken the wrong jobs. He said he should never have taken the Derby job, and looking at Derby it’s not hard to see why that might be, Watford was never going to suit him (although he did ok there) and Leuven, sits between.

Idk whether he can succeed but he has to be given time to stamp his mark on the side. He’s had a summer operating in a structure that has blatantly failed and has only been able to bring in 3 players that can play plus 2 more bodies. Culture was so vital to what he built at Leicester that he will struggle to succeed anywhere where he doesn’t get the chance to stamp his mark in that respect. I’m not saying you’ve got a bunch of wrong ‘uns but he was fortunate at Leicester that he a)had some of his players left from his first spell and b)was able to spend a bit of cash early and add his bodies quickly, getting pretty much spot on too.

 The home form is rotten, there’s no excuses. It’s worth saying we had some dire spells with him in charge too. 12/13 where we won about 3 games in 20 at the end of the season, bottling promotion and culminating in the Deeney moment. The Great Escape was also not possible without the 3 wins in 26 or whatever it was before that.

For me, from what I’ve seen, the squad he has had consistently available just isn’t quite there. Players like Palmer and Bakinson remind me of players like Neil Danns and Matt Mills who Pearson wanted shot of cos they’re just not right for the environment he wants. Players like O’Dowda are just a bit meh. Martin scored a few but I’m not sure what else he offers

Having said that I think Williams (not seen a huge amount of admittedly), James and Massengo could be a really decent midfield 3 if they got consistent time on the pitch together, Bentley is a decent keeper, and the options at CB are alright. It’s around that there’s a problem, both in the first 11 and the depth. Just a real lack of pace, power and technique. It’s a squad that is where it probably should be, it’s not miles off but needs some upgrades and the thing is, even with the transfers that didn’t quite work out, I struggle to fault the recruitment during either of his spells at Leicester. Whether that was just right man, right place, right time or whether he can replicate it, idk

Just to say, I would agree that his choice of jobs since Leicester has been very poor: Derby, helping out the DoF at Leicester by going to Leuven, and Watford - always a short term appointment.

I think that makes me feel less confident in his judgement though.