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A tinge of doubt creeping in


Kid in the Riot

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My worry is this...

Martin, Wells, King, Palmer, O'Dowda, Bakinson, Simpson all need to be replaced in Summer 2022 or 2023.

But we don't have the transfer budget to buy quality in 7 positions.

So we then could sell. But losing Massengo, Kalas or Bentley leaves a big hole in the squad which again requires investment.

How do we reshape the squad?

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19 minutes ago, harrys said:

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

They have better players 

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Just now, cidercity1987 said:

Some of us were banging that drum 2 seasons ago when LJ left. A bit late now

Only one man to blame for the mess were in and that’s SL, he can’t stick to a plan and chops and changes his strategy with every appointment. 
He got Holden so badly wrong that he couldn’t then go and get a Lowe, he was pushed in to his own corner with the NP appointment.

However, I’m not moving from my stance that this is a free hit season for NP to sort the shit out that’s needed. Anything other than relegation was acceptable for me This season 

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The home form is abysmal, no getting away from it, but I’m on board with a three-year project to rebuild the club from the rabble left by Mark Ashton and nobody should be under any illusions as to the mess he’s left. 

The signings of Atkinson and Tanner give me hope that more of those types will follow. Maybe not this year as I firmly expect a bottom-six struggle, but certainly the deeper we move into the project. 

The bottom line is how much time people are willing to give it, but in my experience nothing lasts for ever and this home form has to turn at some point soon (I always thought Barnsley was more likely than a rejuvenated Forest). 

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Wasn’t Nige’s success at Leicester built around successful recruitment? Identifying a profile of player that he wanted. Young, hungry, room for growth etc. Add Vardy and Mahrez and you’ve got something special.

I think he’s slowly doing that here. Too slowly for many of us, but he is hamstrung by losses due to Covid, FFP and the fact the last regime pissed a windfall away. If you look at the players he has brought in so far they have been a success (relatively). Simpson, King and James to set some standards and steady the ship. Atkinson and Tanner to develop into top players. 

There are going to be some bumps. We need time for Nige to bring some players in and for some talented youngsters to develop. I would imagine he is as frustrated as any of us with the way the game finished. That said we were on the wrong side of a number of big calls.

Time for steady heads and to keep the faith.

(However, I am prepared to lose my sh** if we lose to Barnsley)

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My fear is if we do not keep up our excellent  away record then we will start sinking pretty quickly to the bottom of the table. How Lansdown expected,with  the players we have and such minimal backing for NP, this squad to flourish this season is beyond me. I hope NP stays and can perform the miracle of keeping us up. And then Mr Lansdown give the man some support in the transfer market starting in January. 

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3 minutes ago, HappyClapper said:

Wasn’t Nige’s success at Leicester built around successful recruitment? Identifying a profile of player that he wanted. Young, hungry, room for growth etc. Add Vardy and Mahrez and you’ve got something special.

I think he’s slowly doing that here. Too slowly for many of us, but he is hamstrung by losses due to Covid, FFP and the fact the last regime pissed a windfall away. If you look at the players he has brought in so far they have been a success (relatively). Simpson, King and James to set some standards and steady the ship. Atkinson and Tanner to develop into top players. 

There are going to be some bumps. We need time for Nige to bring some players in and for some talented youngsters to develop. I would imagine he is as frustrated as any of us with the way the game finished. That said we were on the wrong side of a number of big calls.

Time for steady heads and to keep the faith.

(However, I am prepared to lose my sh** if we lose to Barnsley)

Uh Oh !!

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7 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Only one man to blame for the mess were in and that’s SL, he can’t stick to a plan and chops and changes his strategy with every appointment. 
He got Holden so badly wrong that he couldn’t then go and get a Lowe, he was pushed in to his own corner with the NP appointment.

However, I’m not moving from my stance that this is a free hit season for NP to sort the shit out that’s needed. Anything other than relegation was acceptable for me This season 

Agreed, we’re continue to pay the price for Holden’s appointment & keeping LJ too long. How he signed it off I still don’t know.

LJ I can see why they tried to keep him past sell his by date, but Holden’s appointment was simply ridiculous, I don’t think there’s single supporter out there who thought it worth any kind of shot.

I quite like Pearson & prefer to stick with him for now, but he needs to overcome the mentality that creeps in the last 20 mins of home games. 

 

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52 minutes ago, mozo said:

My worry is this...

Martin, Wells, King, Palmer, O'Dowda, Bakinson, Simpson all need to be replaced in Summer 2022 or 2023.

But we don't have the transfer budget to buy quality in 7 positions.

So we then could sell. But losing Massengo, Kalas or Bentley leaves a big hole in the squad which again requires investment.

How do we reshape the squad?

I don't know who we will get in but there is still plenty of dead wood in that squad tonight. Nige is still the answer I feel he needs to move on quite few he was left with.

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

Kid, I think his role will change in time here, more onto a General Manager / DoF type (ignore the name of the role for now), with a younger manager beneath him, taking more match responsibility..

Its who Lee Johnson needed, someone to tell him to cut the crap, etc.

I don’t know the timeframe, but the “plan” is more than a manager’s responsibility and I see Nige having a side remit at the mo’.  That remit will narrow in time.  I think it will suit his work / life balance which is important to him, especially after illness.

I think we have to accept this team isn’t his….and I feel the project doesn’t end with Nige as first team manager, but that’s not saying the club doesn’t succeed in his time here….it’s just gonna be with different responsibilities.

Tonight is gutting.

Weathered a 10-12 minutes spell first half by Forest to take the lead.

They came out flying, we weathered it again.  Scott gets brought down (imho) for a penalty, Samba makes a brilliant finger tip save from Wells (tipped it onto the post, ref gives goal kick.  They start to go long.

There switch with Mighten coming on gave them fresh impetus.  Rush of blood from Baker who was brilliant tonight, Bentley palms a ball out onto Taylor’s arm.

Its a bit unlucky isn’t it?

 

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1 hour ago, harrys said:

Are you joking, it could barely be worse, how come Cooper can go to Forest with just 1 point from 7 games and immediately turn it around yet Pearson cannot win a home game in 8 months, like Hughton and most of the older managers around they are way behind the times, I said in the summer that we missed a trick by not going for Cooper or the new Swansea manager

This

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I’m surprised he hasn’t been able to get more out of the players, or is that really all some of them can give?

Shoots of green seeing the youngsters come through and Massengo pre injury played better under him than previously. 

At any other club the manager will be under pressure, but that’s not our way rightly or wrongly.

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46 minutes ago, RedM said:

I’m surprised he hasn’t been able to get more out of the players, or is that really all some of them can give?

Shoots of green seeing the youngsters come through and Massengo pre injury played better under him than previously. 

At any other club the manager will be under pressure, but that’s not our way rightly or wrongly.

For me it’s slightly different this season as i do truly believe the priority with this lot was to just stay up, offload what we can and start again. For me there was no expectations for this season so I’m more relaxed than most about what’s going on. That’s not to say i won’t ever change my mind.

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7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

Alternative take is he does well when given time

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52 minutes ago, RedM said:

I’m surprised he hasn’t been able to get more out of the players, or is that really all some of them can give?

Shoots of green seeing the youngsters come through and Massengo pre injury played better under him than previously. 

At any other club the manager will be under pressure, but that’s not our way rightly or wrongly.

I get what you mean but - at the same time - I couldn’t actually tell you who I thought played badly last night. Baker had a disastrous last two minutes but, had the game finished on the ninety minute mark, I think we would have seen it as a decent, solid performance all around.

The issue for me isn’t player performances but the players we don’t have. We don’t have any pacy players, we don’t have any creative players, we don’t have a quality finisher and we’ve run Martin into the ground due to a lack of options to hold the ball up.  Plus the few options we have for running and impetus in midfield are either injured or recovering from injury.

I’m frustrated with how we are doing but - short of spending money that presumably is not there with FFP on players who may not have been available or attainable in the summer in any case - I don’t think any manager would find quick fixes.

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7 hours ago, Ostrich said:

I think you might have brought him in too late in a sense. For both yours and his sake, had he been with you when he was at Leuven things probably would have been better all round because he may well have been able to influence a better structure that meant you didn’t spaff millions on some of the dross that you’ve had.

Leuven didn’t work out for many reasons, I think he said himself he made big mistakes and took his eye off the football trying to be involved in too much at the club. Leuven fans will also say he was naive to the division and for a long time it was pretty grim - that he almost took them down is pretty bad, had he done that would have been scandalous for their budget in that league.

But also he’s clearly taken the wrong jobs. He said he should never have taken the Derby job, and looking at Derby it’s not hard to see why that might be, Watford was never going to suit him (although he did ok there) and Leuven, sits between.

Idk whether he can succeed but he has to be given time to stamp his mark on the side. He’s had a summer operating in a structure that has blatantly failed and has only been able to bring in 3 players that can play plus 2 more bodies. Culture was so vital to what he built at Leicester that he will struggle to succeed anywhere where he doesn’t get the chance to stamp his mark in that respect. I’m not saying you’ve got a bunch of wrong ‘uns but he was fortunate at Leicester that he a)had some of his players left from his first spell and b)was able to spend a bit of cash early and add his bodies quickly, getting pretty much spot on too.

 The home form is rotten, there’s no excuses. It’s worth saying we had some dire spells with him in charge too. 12/13 where we won about 3 games in 20 at the end of the season, bottling promotion and culminating in the Deeney moment. The Great Escape was also not possible without the 3 wins in 26 or whatever it was before that.

For me, from what I’ve seen, the squad he has had consistently available just isn’t quite there. Players like Palmer and Bakinson remind me of players like Neil Danns and Matt Mills who Pearson wanted shot of cos they’re just not right for the environment he wants. Players like O’Dowda are just a bit meh. Martin scored a few but I’m not sure what else he offers

Having said that I think Williams (not seen a huge amount of admittedly), James and Massengo could be a really decent midfield 3 if they got consistent time on the pitch together, Bentley is a decent keeper, and the options at CB are alright. It’s around that there’s a problem, both in the first 11 and the depth. Just a real lack of pace, power and technique. It’s a squad that is where it probably should be, it’s not miles off but needs some upgrades and the thing is, even with the transfers that didn’t quite work out, I struggle to fault the recruitment during either of his spells at Leicester. Whether that was just right man, right place, right time or whether he can replicate it, idk

Perfect summary of the club at this time.

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19 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

I think you will be in for a nasty shock if you think Bentley has any suitors. Another Parry in to the opposition for the winner last night, erratic shot stopper still needs dropping imo. He can have all the QPR games he wants it will never compare to having a consistent number 1.  

Totally - how he’s beyond criticism for last nights goal is beyond me. It was an awful parry 

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7 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Ryan Lowe was the man we should have got, but he wasn’t a big enough name for most on here.

His record speaks for himself. 

He was top of my list as well. Believe he signed a new contract at Plymouth either just before LJ left or just before DH went. That put the stoppers on any approach.

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8 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still think he's probably the best person available to turn this mess around, and let's be honest it was a huge mess. Our league position flattered us last season and Pearson was quite right in saying that had the season gone on another 10 games we'd have gone down.

However, it's not just his record here: played 28, won 6, drawn 8, lost 14.

It's Watford: played 22, won 7, drawn 5, lost 10

It's Leuven: played 56, won 18, drawn 15, lost 23

It's Derby: played 14, won 3, drawn 5, lost 6

Those appointments span the last 6+ years and in each job he's lost more games than he's won. I haven't totalled it, but I'm guessing Pearson's last 120 games or so in charge of a football club wouldn't make for pretty reading. There's about 34 wins there I think.

There is a nagging doubt in my mind as to whether we've got this manager in too late and his best years, which were at Leicester 2011-15, starting over 10 years ago, are behind him. 

You see what cooper has done at forest so far I think you could be right football management now seems to be a young man's game

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Forest have better players than us on the grass.

I’ve seen so much hyperbole on OTIB in my time lurking in here.

‘We have a top 6 squad on paper’ is the classic.

We don’t. We made a massive charitable  donation to Chelsea, for three players who don’t perform at the levels they’re capable of. 

This is true for a lot of the squad.

Football isn’t played on paper, it’s played on grass.

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13 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

Forest have better players than us on the grass.

I’ve seen so much hyperbole on OTIB in my time lurking in here.

‘We have a top 6 squad on paper’ is the classic.

We don’t. We made a massive charitable  donation to Chelsea, for three players who don’t perform at the levels they’re capable of. 

This is true for a lot of the squad.

Football isn’t played on paper, it’s played on grass.

Spot on... The money spent on the 3 Chelsea boys was huge by our standards and 2 out of the 3 have been a big disapointment for me. I know alot of people rate Jay DaSilva (and he is technically decent) but he hasn't produced anywhere near enough to justify his fee.

Palmer has been a disaster and whilst Kalas has done ok, the reported 8million fee still seems high (although the world was in a different place then).

Our squad is bottom half Champ and recruitment has been poor for quite a few years.

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30 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

Forest have better players than us on the grass.

I’ve seen so much hyperbole on OTIB in my time lurking in here.

‘We have a top 6 squad on paper’ is the classic.

We don’t. We made a massive charitable  donation to Chelsea, for three players who don’t perform at the levels they’re capable of. 

This is true for a lot of the squad.

Football isn’t played on paper, it’s played on grass.

I honestly used to think we did have a top 6 squad under Holden and just weren't reaching our potential. Unfortunately, games aren't played on paper and the players we had weren't / aren't good enough

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