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I actually feel sorry for NP


KeepUpLino
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41 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

To be fair that's a poster on OTIB saying that not Pearson himself. He comes across to me as knowing exactly what he's got himself into and IF (big if obviously) he gets it right this job could well rank up there amongst his greatest achievements, in fact it would be full stop given where he is starting from. I think that's how he sees it - we aren't a club for the faint hearted, that's for sure.

Yes he if gets us sorted and too the prem. That's some job by NP. And will be well beyond his past achievements 

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He has to shift on the dross we have been left with from the chuckle. Brothers. He had to keep some of these below par players as he couldn't  get rid of everybody. There are players in the squad who are either not settled in BS3 or disinterested. The likes of Odowda Palmer Wells Simpson Martin Bakinson Vyner just not good enough. I ask but one thing let's remember the kids are hungry let's let them have a go, Tanner has showed he is up for the fight and I'm sure the rest would be.

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1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

You're right, he does pick them, and the style of play. Doesn't mean they always do what they're supposed to, under pressure, though does it?

I'll meet you half way and agree the subs might have been better utilised last night but he wasn't exactly spoilt for choice. I don't suppose he expected Palmer and O'Dowda to basically disappear once he'd put them on. 

I reckon he doesn't rate about 50% of our squad - they wouldn't be here if he had a blank piece of paper and could write down 18 names of his choosing for a matchday squad.

That's a situation he's inherited, albeit one he walked into with his eyes open.

So he's basically training and picking a lot of players that no matter how much instruction you give them, don't implement those instructions consistently.

Guess what, Johnson and Holden had the same problem too! So if 3 different managers have come to the same conclusion, I reckon the problem might be with the players, not the bloke training and picking them - although the bloke(s) who thought it was a good idea to buy them in the first place might well be culpable too.

If you gave Pearson that blank piece of paper, let's say it had 2 columns on it one headed Keep and the other Bin, how many of the current squad do you think would be in the Keep column?

I've no idea how old you are, so if you're a young un, I'm asking which players do you think Pearson would "swipe Right" for?        

Pretty much agree with all of this.

So far, NP has brought in 4 players? Atkinson, James, King and Tanner, and aside from King, all of them have been an improvement on what we already had. If he can do that again, in the next transfer window (but most likely next summers transfer window rather than January), then that'll be another 4 of his own players, that'll be nearly a whole team of upgrades on what we currently have. If you consider that maybe one or two of what we have already can hold their own, then we might look a bit better next season

He's got no money to do this, so until we sell or offload to save wages, it's a slow burn process. 

I said on another thread last night, I'd be tempted to sell Bentley (even though I'd like to keep him), to try and speed  things up, and to also up the quality of players we can afford.

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41 minutes ago, Banjo Red said:

He has to shift on the dross we have been left with from the chuckle. Brothers. He had to keep some of these below par players as he couldn't  get rid of everybody. There are players in the squad who are either not settled in BS3 or disinterested. The likes of Odowda Palmer Wells Simpson Martin Bakinson Vyner just not good enough. I ask but one thing let's remember the kids are hungry let's let them have a go, Tanner has showed he is up for the fight and I'm sure the rest would be.

I saw the kids last season (and looked what happened). Only Scott looked like he was at the required level at the time (that's not their fault by the way). No surprise that NP has barely included any of them. There's a lot of bogus PR circulating around our club and 'we have some stunning prospects' I fear is in that bracket. One or two solid prospects who might make a reasonable Championship player - possibly.

Play the kids - we'll struggle even more. The judicious use of one or two of them would be acceptable but 'play the kids' is pie in the sky. NP knows that. That's why he's not played them (apart from Scott who is on a completely different level).

Edited by firstdivision
typo
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11 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Pretty much agree with all of this.

So far, NP has brought in 4 players? Atkinson, James, King and Tanner, and aside from King, all of them have been an improvement on what we already had. If he can do that again, in the next transfer window (but most likely next summers transfer window rather than January), then that'll be another 4 of his own players, that'll be nearly a whole team of upgrades on what we currently have. If you consider that maybe one or two of what we have already can hold their own, then we might look a bit better next season

He's got no money to do this, so until we sell or offload to save wages, it's a slow burn process. 

I said on another thread last night, I'd be tempted to sell Bentley (even though I'd like to keep him), to try and speed  things up, and to also up the quality of players we can afford.

Convenient that you ignore he also brought in Simpson who is stealing a wage right now and never looked like he could compete in a quality team. So that makes the (s)hit rate 20% who were worse than what we had.

I’m also over looking he presumably sanctioned releasing Pato who still has more quality than O’Dowda, Palmer and most importantly King?

Edited by Dullmoan Tone
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why is it when we win pearson is doing a great job

but when we lose

its dean holden lj ashton and sl fault oh and also the players

im not into all this rubbish the problem we have is we cant see a game out and most of all a lack of pace but the squad is not as bad as some make out and also the big nige is not the messiah that some would have you believe.

i got no doubts we will win some and lose some and be about mid table as that's where i see the squad its not crap but its not great.

im not that impressed with big nige but i bloody hope he can achieve success with us if not i would hope we go for a ryan lowe or garth anwsiworth type manger that both are up and coming play good football can find a bargains on shoe string budgets and both manage with a smile which i think we could all relate to.

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1 minute ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Convenient that you ignore he also brought in Simpson who is stealing a wage right now and never looked like he could compete in a quality team. So that makes the (s)hit rate 20% who were worse than what we had.

I’m also over looking he presumably sanctioned releasing Pato who still has more quality than O’Dowda, Palmer and most importantly King?

Not conveniently, but a genuine case of me forgetting. Simpson is not good I agree, however out of those players who he's playing, they're a step up.

Without being partial to knowing the behind the scenes, I cannot comment on why Paterson didn't stay. Maybe NP told him a few home truths during last season? May NP doesn't rate Pato, O'Dowda or Palmer, and Pateson was the first to be shown the door in his clearing out?

Point is, Im putting faith in NP to clear out the likes of Simpson, Palmer, ODowda, and King next summer.

I think King and Simpson are on 1 year contracts, so they'll be gone if he can recruit others. I speculating that they're just here to run the dressing room and to be role models for the younger team members in the short term.

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6 hours ago, KeepUpLino said:

The mess left by LJ and MA and overseen by SL is nothing short of a disgrace, no money, no prospects, league 1’s a certainty and it’s not the fault of the manager!

In fairness, the state we were in post Holden was crazy. I personally don't think relegation is even likely though.

2 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

Is it?

I think you have a short memory in the relative history of the club.

Being an established championship club is no disgrace.

The state of the club was dreadful (club culture, finances etc) regardless of what league we're in.

I don't think we should be that excited about being am established Championship club anyway though. It's not really an accomplishment for a club of our size. Most clubs of a similar size would consider that the bare minimum. 

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41 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Convenient that you ignore he also brought in Simpson who is stealing a wage right now and never looked like he could compete in a quality team. So that makes the (s)hit rate 20% who were worse than what we had.

I’m also over looking he presumably sanctioned releasing Pato who still has more quality than O’Dowda, Palmer and most importantly King?

A colleague of mine lives in the same block as Simpson and apparently he’s flat out on the old Deliveroos!

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1 hour ago, beaverface said:

I said on another thread last night, I'd be tempted to sell Bentley (even though I'd like to keep him), to try and speed  things up, and to also up the quality of players we can afford.

👍

Or Kalas. Like you say, wouldn't want to but we're in a tight spot right now and, hey, we sell our best players anyway!

And there's always Massengo, Scott or Semenyo if they were to really come good this season. Massengo will surely catch someone's eye the way he's going. 

What I'm worried about is what division we might be in come next summer! 

Edited by Merrick's Marvels
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2 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Virtually every new manager inherits a "mess".

But you may well be right re time scale.

Depends.

Managers inherit players who aren't playing for the manager, may not be good enough, or it may be the previous manager was playing incorrect tactics.

Not many if them inherit such a mess of a playing squad as we have, with no previous style of play, destroyed morale, a contractual epidemic, bloated wage budget, with way to address it, etc.

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30 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

🤦‍♂️ I feel sorry for you if you really feel we were left in a “mess” by LJ.

Nigel Pearson inherited a more than capable group of players in a mid table league position that were competing for play off positions for the last 3 seasons 

His task is to take us to the next level… so far he is achieving the same/ slightly worse. I wait for him to achieve 8th place or higher 

competing for play offs?  time dims the memory I know but..

we finished 8th, 11th, 17th, and 18th under LJ and 12th under Holden.  Nige has delivered a 19th and we sit 13th today

we have finished in the bottom half in 4 of the last 6 seasons since returning to the Championship

 

Edited by CodeRed
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3 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

You're right, he does pick them, and the style of play. Doesn't mean they always do what they're supposed to, under pressure, though does it?

I'll meet you half way and agree the subs might have been better utilised last night but he wasn't exactly spoilt for choice. I don't suppose he expected Palmer and O'Dowda to basically disappear once he'd put them on. 

I reckon he doesn't rate about 50% of our squad - they wouldn't be here if he had a blank piece of paper and could write down 18 names of his choosing for a matchday squad.

That's a situation he's inherited, albeit one he walked into with his eyes open.

So he's basically training and picking a lot of players that no matter how much instruction you give them, don't implement those instructions consistently.

Guess what, Johnson and Holden had the same problem too! So if 3 different managers have come to the same conclusion, I reckon the problem might be with the players, not the bloke training and picking them - although the bloke(s) who thought it was a good idea to buy them in the first place might well be culpable too.

If you gave Pearson that blank piece of paper, let's say it had 2 columns on it one headed Keep and the other Bin, how many of the current squad do you think would be in the Keep column?

I've no idea how old you are, so if you're a young un, I'm asking which players do you think Pearson would "swipe Right" for?        

Great post MM which got me thinking, my reply would be in terms of right now and of those who’ve featured most regularly this season.

Keep x11 (more than I expected)

Bentley

Kalas

Tanner

Atkinson

DaSilva

Baker

Massengo

James

Scott

Williams

Pring

Bin x5

Simpson

O’Dowda

Martin

Bakinson

Palmer

Unsure x4

Semenyo

Weimann

Vyner

Wells

 

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7 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

While I agree with the sentiment, There was no need to make the changes he did last night. Swansea were absolute dog sh!!e against us but managed to see the game out by keeping the ball for long periods of time in the last few minutes. We can not do that cos we panic and thats on the manager.

Plus see the setup, it doesn't often lend itself to taking the sting out of things, to managing the game through possession- injuries don't help either.

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45 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

competing for play offs?  time dims the memory I know but..

we finished 8th, 11th, 17th, and 18th under LJ and 12th under Holden.  Nige has delivered a 19th and we sit 13th today

we have finished in the bottom half in 4 of the last 6 seasons since returning to the Championship

 

We were in the playoff picture until quite late in 2017/18 and especially 2018/19.

Until the lockdown as well, post Fulham at home we were a point off 6th IIRC. We had the disastrous return under LJ- P4L4- and that was that. Bit more mixed than you suggest IMO.

Are we regular top 6 contenders? Not especially.

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4 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

You're right, he does pick them, and the style of play. Doesn't mean they always do what they're supposed to, under pressure, though does it?

I'll meet you half way and agree the subs might have been better utilised last night but he wasn't exactly spoilt for choice. I don't suppose he expected Palmer and O'Dowda to basically disappear once he'd put them on. 

I reckon he doesn't rate about 50% of our squad - they wouldn't be here if he had a blank piece of paper and could write down 18 names of his choosing for a matchday squad.

That's a situation he's inherited, albeit one he walked into with his eyes open.

So he's basically training and picking a lot of players that no matter how much instruction you give them, don't implement those instructions consistently.

Guess what, Johnson and Holden had the same problem too! So if 3 different managers have come to the same conclusion, I reckon the problem might be with the players, not the bloke training and picking them - although the bloke(s) who thought it was a good idea to buy them in the first place might well be culpable too.

If you gave Pearson that blank piece of paper, let's say it had 2 columns on it one headed Keep and the other Bin, how many of the current squad do you think would be in the Keep column?

I've no idea how old you are, so if you're a young un, I'm asking which players do you think Pearson would "swipe Right" for?        

There are definitely “some” here because they are under contract and it makes little sense to pay them off.  Nobody else wants them.  Nagy went for free, thank god we at least saved paying his wages.  In the current climate who’s gonna sign Kasey Palmer (as an example) on £25k p.w and pick up all his wages, let alone pay a fee too.

Got to hope Nige can either get a tune out of them or we have to wait for them to go OOC.  In the meantime they will fill the squad until we can transition new signings or youngsters in.

I heard last night that Ayman Benarous was part of the “squad” last night in recognition of his performance the previous day.  He didn’t make the 18, but good experience nonetheless.

4 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Fair comment but  we should have improved, even with the players we had and also have brought in.

IMO.

I think we have improved, but don’t forget we don’t have the players we had….we shipped lots out in the summer.  We are starting from a slightly worse position than last season in reality with no money to play with.  We couldn’t trade Diedhiou for example, we didn’t have that luxury.

2 hours ago, firstdivision said:

I saw the kids last season (and looked what happened). Only Scott looked like he was at the required level at the time (that's not their fault by the way). No surprise that NP has barely included any of them. There's a lot of bogus PR circulating around our club and 'we have some stunning prospects' I fear is in that bracket. One or two solid prospects who might make a reasonable Championship player - possibly.

Play the kids - we'll struggle even more. The judicious use of one or two of them would be acceptable but 'play the kids' is pie in the sky. NP knows that. That's why he's not played them (apart from Scott who is on a completely different level).

I tend to agree.  If you asked me to say which players in our u23s will be bonafide 1st teamers in 2 seasons time (23/24 season - that’s giving them time to develop this season and next) I’d probably say:

- Scott (obviously)

- Massengo (I’ve included him just because of his age)

- Ayman Benarous (he’s starting to play a man’s game rather than a kids dribbling game)

- Tommy Conway

If you exclude Massengo a hit rate of 3 is still pretty good from Academy.  Towler possibly, want to see what he’s like when he comes back from Grimsby.

Its a tough level to attain.  I think many will have careers at pro-level, but I don’t think they’ll cut it at this level.

The kids were played, because Nige got so fed up with some of the senior pros.

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

competing for play offs?  time dims the memory I know but..

we finished 8th, 11th, 17th, and 18th under LJ and 12th under Holden.  Nige has delivered a 19th and we sit 13th today

we have finished in the bottom half in 4 of the last 6 seasons since returning to the Championship

 

Once in the top 8, twice in the middle 8, 3 times in the bottom 8.  We are an established Champ club, but we aren’t a playoff chasing club really.  We’ve had good runs, but had bad runs too.

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Think Nagy would have done better at more possession based sides but we'll never know. The fact he plays well at International level vs decent sides often, I wonder.

In general, I have to question how Reading have made the signings they have under an embargo and still awaiting a negotiated 6-9 pts. Something's not right there, not as if their turnover is higher than ours and if ours has dropped, theirs might also have done so post Covid.

If you compare the two situations, they have made 4 stunning signings relative to constraint- or 2 stunning and 2 very useful.

  1. Dann
  2. Rahman
  3. Drinkwater
  4. Halilovic

£34k per week for the 4 ie in total, no loan, no transfer fees.

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5 hours ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

🤦‍♂️ I feel sorry for you if you really feel we were left in a “mess” by LJ.

Nigel Pearson inherited a more than capable group of players in a mid table league position that were competing for play off positions for the last 3 seasons 

Well said, mate.

Beats me why Nige won't play Bobby Reid, Webster, Brownhill, Big Fam, Patterson, Joe Bryan, Marlon, Flinty, but I suppose he knows what he's doing 

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