Having just watched the highlights.

[Major Isewater]

6 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Yup fair. All caused by or at least exacerbated by being knackered and having to defend most of the half, in part due to non-retention of the ball.

What about Forest who had been chasing the game for ninety minutes ? Surely they would have less energy ? 

[pongo88]

47 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Baker is a good defender.....but he always looks like he is running in treacle, when he attempts to sprint.  So he slides in to tackles to make up for his lack of pace.....and the consequence is what happened in the 90th minute.  His protestation to the Ref was beyond lame.  But it was defintely De Silva's pathetic defending that created the situation?

 

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me this is collective, no way Dasilva’s fault imho.  I posted the start pic earlier, so as it evolves:

James too far away from the man who’s received the ball and travelling forward.  Spence starts to make a run.  Jay does not know whether to engage the man on the ball, track Spence, or what about Johnson, is Baker marking him or has he passed him on.  The defensive line is crap, Kalas and Tanner deeper than the other 3 (JD, NB, RA).  So you can start by blaming the collective 6.  Massengo and Weimann fine of the rest of the midfield.

Spence’s run is purposeful and now at full tilt. Dasilva on the turn, still not sure whether Baker has Johnson, has passed him on, or is trying to play outside.  The pass is perfectly weighted.

Spence is in full flight, Dasilva struggling.  Baker’s line is now in front of Dasilva (he’s now marking Johnson), but also wrong side of the ball.  He’ll pay for that 1 second later.

And now we see Dasilva beaten through a combination of things, Spence’s pace, the timing of the pass, a foul and it’s a penalty.  Baker is stuffed….and brings him down.

So, imho, Dasilva part of a collective problem, and also how Forest found gaps between the lines (give them credit to).

That’s my view anyway.

 

I’ve got to go with @maxjak with this. Watching it in real time replay Dasilva is very slow on the turn. He had a start on Spence and still never looked like getting to the ball first. To be a good full back you’ve got to have pace and power.  Dasilva, although skilful, is a bit lacking in both 

[maxjak]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me this is collective, no way Dasilva’s fault imho.  I posted the start pic earlier, so as it evolves:

James too far away from the man who’s received the ball and travelling forward.  Spence starts to make a run.  Jay does not know whether to engage the man on the ball, track Spence, or what about Johnson, is Baker marking him or has he passed him on.  The defensive line is crap, Kalas and Tanner deeper than the other 3 (JD, NB, RA).  So you can start by blaming the collective 6.  Massengo and Weimann fine of the rest of the midfield.

Spence’s run is purposeful and now at full tilt. Dasilva on the turn, still not sure whether Baker has Johnson, has passed him on, or is trying to play outside.  The pass is perfectly weighted.

Spence is in full flight, Dasilva struggling.  Baker’s line is now in front of Dasilva (he’s now marking Johnson), but also wrong side of the ball.  He’ll pay for that 1 second later.

And now we see Dasilva beaten through a combination of things, Spence’s pace, the timing of the pass, a foul and it’s a penalty.  Baker is stuffed….and brings him down.

So, imho, Dasilva part of a collective problem, and also how Forest found gaps between the lines (give them credit to).

That’s my view anyway.

 

Maybe i am not looking at the big enough picture, and am being too harsh on Dasilva.....but he IS brushed aside, as if he isn't there, and is totally ineffective.  Of course it is the culmination of a general malaise within the squad, which through a combination of tiredness and poor judgement let Forest waltz through unimpeded.  I suppose ultimately, Baker's ridiculous attempted tackle is the final Nail in the inevitable coffin of our defending ?  Ha!

[Davefevs]

Just now, pongo88 said:

 

I’ve got to go with @maxjak with this. Watching it in real time replay Dasilva is very slow on the turn. He had a start on Spence and still never looked like getting to the ball first. To be a good full back you’ve got to have pace and power.  Dasilva, although skilful, is a bit lacking in both 

One is running flat out in one direction (Spence), the other is on the half turn because of what’s happening in front and just behind (Dasilva).  He’s exposed because of multiple things.  He doesn’t do well himself (agreed), but it’s a combination of factors….it is not solely Dasilva’s “pathetic defending”.

[Clevedon Red]

6 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

 

I’ve got to go with @maxjak with this. Watching it in real time replay Dasilva is very slow on the turn. He had a start on Spence and still never looked like getting to the ball first. To be a good full back you’ve got to have pace and power.  Dasilva, although skilful, is a bit lacking in both 

I made the exact same observation he’s certainly lost his pace recently.

[steveybadger]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

What about Forest who had been chasing the game for ninety minutes ? Surely they would have less energy ? 

I always think it’s harder defending than attacking, if playing a team that moves the ball well.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Clevedon Red said:

I made the exact same observation he’s certainly lost his pace recently.

I thought leading up to Millwall where he rolled his ankle blocking a cross and had to come off, he was looking like getting back to his best form.

[Clevedon Red]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I thought leading up to Millwall where he rolled his ankle blocking a cross and had to come off, he was looking like getting back to his best form.

On Tuesday a couple of times he just lacked the pace of previous. Hopefully with more matches under his belt he’ll regain it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

What about Forest who had been chasing the game for ninety minutes ? Surely they would have less energy ? 

While chasing is hard, defending for long periods without the ball is too. Mentally, physically- we haven't retained it well enough for long enough in recent weeks. It can be exhausting.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 21/10/2021 at 03:26, billywedlock said:

Well until we are able to play out from the back we are going to be chasing the ball all day . This has to be changed . Atkinson and James should be able to manage that . 

I'd say we have the personnel to do it better. Bentley in goal, and then Kalas also actually at least in a conservative and safe way has useful passing stats when given the chance.

When we have a fit CM 3 of James, Massengo, Williams you can start to see the basis.

[underhanded]

After the Scott trip I was shouting (bizzarely, admittedly, but watching Citah will do that to you) 'card him then!' at the ref. I don't get it, the dynamics of that challenge meant it's either a pen or he thinks Scott dived, I can't possibly see how it could be viewed any other way. For that alone it was absolutely shocking refereeing.

In regards to the goal analysed above, it's a collective issue but ultimately I think it's on Bakes. The angle of the run combined with distancve to goal means he doesn't, under any circumstance, have to dive in there. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 hours ago, Ostrich said:

Doesn’t feel like that chimes with what’s being said about the team on here, in terms of not keeping the ball well enough and some of the basic possession/passing stats. It’s not solely down to one player to drag everyone else up and maybe in his absence it would be be even worse. Brendan always talks about Tielemans being his coach on the pitch and it usually follows that if Tielemans is shit, we’re shit, and if Tielemans isn’t playing, we really struggle to control the game and play meaningfully through midfield. He dictates how well we defend because he dictates our control of the game and he dictates how well we attack just because of his ability on the ball.

I would expect James’ influence to be similar in this team (obviously he’s not at that level and is playing in a team with a different mindset but I think he could do similar, a bit like Grimes at Swansea has been in recent season) but possession stats are poor, pass completion is poor, the table based on expected goals is poor. For me, a lot of that stems from what your key central midfielder is doing.

Leicester play with a more possession and pressing game don't they? What sort of shape?

Think that the greater issues here are what's around James and the fact that we've barely been able to get our optimum side, midfield on the pitch this season due to rolling injuries.

Were we able to see him, Williams and Massengo in a 3 for a run of games, things would improve for us and his levels would also rise with it.

A fit Semenyo would also provide another option in front of him. Young and a good range of attributes.

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I hope so , though you have to do it well or you get caught out. The constant long ball out is not working one bit and loses possession far too easily. Williams is not as bas as first thought, so maybe we get our best midfield in time for Barnsley 

Agreed. Hitting it long all the time becomes predictable after a while.

We also probably need a reasonably high line- Tanner, Atkinson and DaSilva/Pring are comfortably of the right age profile for this and Kalas though a lot of people go on about last ditch, his proficiency in interceptions that we've seen in past times is an indication IMO of someone who doesn't always have to sit so deep.

We need that strong midfield first though, that first choice. That 3 in front gives the potential for more options, control, stability etc.

[italian dave]

22 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

The video is quite clear, the defender got nowhere near the ball and it was a clear trip.

Who knows what might've happened had we established that two goal lead. 

They’d have got a third in the 94th minute?

[Mad Cyril]

On 20/10/2021 at 19:17, pl00peh91 said:

Is this the wrong time to mention that VAR would have ruled out our goal against Fulham?

..and Tinnion's against Liverpool

[Offside]

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

For me this is collective, no way Dasilva’s fault imho.  I posted the start pic earlier, so as it evolves:

James too far away from the man who’s received the ball and travelling forward.  Spence starts to make a run.  Jay does not know whether to engage the man on the ball, track Spence, or what about Johnson, is Baker marking him or has he passed him on.  The defensive line is crap, Kalas and Tanner deeper than the other 3 (JD, NB, RA).  So you can start by blaming the collective 6.  Massengo and Weimann fine of the rest of the midfield.

Spence’s run is purposeful and now at full tilt. Dasilva on the turn, still not sure whether Baker has Johnson, has passed him on, or is trying to play outside.  The pass is perfectly weighted.

Spence is in full flight, Dasilva struggling.  Baker’s line is now in front of Dasilva (he’s now marking Johnson), but also wrong side of the ball.  He’ll pay for that 1 second later.

And now we see Dasilva beaten through a combination of things, Spence’s pace, the timing of the pass, a foul and it’s a penalty.  Baker is stuffed….and brings him down.

So, imho, Dasilva part of a collective problem, and also how Forest found gaps between the lines (give them credit to).

That’s my view anyway.

 

In those images we look a mess. Gaps all over the place. Our players not engaging with their players (like one the first one - the amount of space their player with the ball has deep in our half!).  So many of our players in positions where they’re not doing anything. Very passive from us. We don’t make it difficult for the opposition. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

In those pictures, I can't work out exactly what we're trying to do- we have sufficient numbers behind the ball for at least the first couple but it definitely lacks cohesion etc.

Who was the Forest player in the box furthest along left totally free? 2nd from last pic. Weimann just seemed to be well behind it, although granted he isn't a defensive player.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In those pictures, I can't work out exactly what we're trying to do- we have sufficient numbers behind the ball for at least the first couple but it definitely lacks cohesion etc.

Who was the Forest player in the box furthest along left totally free? 2nd from last pic. Weimann just seemed to be well behind it, although granted he isn't a defensive player.

 

Alex Mighten