The core.

[The turtle]

Three years from now going into the 2024/25 season which 4/5 players do you see the squad being built around?

 

HNM will head out onto endless possibilities. 

But who do you think the squad will be built around?  Do you think any of the senior pros (24 or older as of now shall we say) will still be here 

[Coxy27]

Atkinson...

That's about it.

[Gazred]

Would we be able to keep any of them for that long? If they're at a prime age for signing and in form, we'll be lucky to hold onto them for more than a season or two.

HNM and Atkinson being prime examples. Scott still young but on a similar trajectory.

[big dosser]

hnm scott pring tanner  all four have a great future hopefully with us,

then bell conway towler britton pearson nurse edwards jennah

older ones bents/oleary kalas

the rest good bye god bless

Just now, big dosser said:

hnm scott pring tanner  all four have a great future hopefully with us,

then bell conway towler britton pearson nurse edwards jennah

older ones bents/oleary kalas

the rest good bye god bless

sorry forgot atkinson

[Red Army 75]

Scott and Benarous will hopefully still be at Bristol City then. Atkinson and HNM as above but doubt hardly any of the current starters will be at city. One thing I am positive about is we have some good young players coming through.

One thing I hope is we have won a home game by then . 

[cidercity1987]

The only players still here in 3 years time will be the bang average ones.

The bad will be bombed out

The good will be sold

Hence why O'Dowda is probably our current longest servant

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

3 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Scott and Benarous will hopefully still be at Bristol City then. Atkinson and HNM as above but doubt hardly any of the current starters will be at city. One thing I am positive about is we have some good young players coming through.

One thing I hope is we have won a home game by then . 

High expectations expecting a home win ever

[Furious Custard]

Assuming we are still in the championship then I would say zero. 

The youth breaking into the first squad dont stand out enough for me. ( I Don't know about the next crop of players) 

We have a few sick notes that will end up being released.

Few older players that will be off the pace by that time if not arguably already so won't be around in 3 years time. 

A few players that have been bench warmers under 3 managers now will be eventually released or mutually terminated wanting to be a starter somewhere else. 

That leaves Bentley, Atkinson and Massengo whom eventually will be sold as we will need to try and balance the books somehow. 

 

Remind me in 3 years! Maybe we will have won at home by then. 

[Malago]

These days there years is a lifetime in football.  At the start of next season I would hope we would have a core of

Bentley

Tanner

Pring

Atkinson

Kalas

Baker

James

Scott

Weimann

i expect/hope  we will have moved on CoD, Palmer, Wells, Martin and Bakinson, Vyner and Moore.

I would expect HMN will have moved on  at his own volition.

Williams may or may not firm part of the core.  Obviously injury dependent.

Let's hope one of two of the U23s progress sufficiently to make the first team squad on merit.

That said, we will need to bring in seven or eight  decent championship proven players to make ourselves competitive, always assuming we’re still in the championship.

How we do that, I’m pleased to say,  is not my problem.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

We have so many really promising young players. Hard to say which ones will make it, but I fancy quite a number of them to.

I`m certainly more hopeful than I have been in the past. Whether it will be down to NP, finances or injury more than we have been used to will get their chance to impress which hasn`t happened in the past so much.

 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

That is an exciting 5 if we were to go one up top.

I don't know why quite a number on here are so scathing of Semenyo who improved hugely last season, and we could see he can take opposing players out of the game, but also works hard for the team when we don't have the ball. Even Villa who were excellent against us, they could not cope with him. So at 21 making a big improvement from one season to the next, as long as he can finally get back fit and stay fit then I don't see why he can't continue to develop a lot more into his mid 20s.

And added with the other 4 you say there that is a fantastic mix of attributes. Not lacking physical strength, pace, energy, technical skill, and got a couple of great passers there too in Williams and James who can also both put their foot in. Would be solid out the ball and should potentially be much more exciting with the ball than what we currently see.

I posted this last night:

I tend to agree.  If you asked me to say which players in our u23s will be bonafide 1st teamers in 2 seasons time (23/24 season - that’s giving them time to develop this season and next) I’d probably say:

- Scott (obviously)

- Massengo (I’ve included him just because of his age)

- Ayman Benarous (he’s starting to play a man’s game rather than a kids dribbling game)

- Tommy Conway

If you exclude Massengo a hit rate of 3 is still pretty good from Academy.  Towler possibly, want to see what he’s like when he comes back from Grimsby.

I didn’t include Semenyo, but that’s just me being inconsistent with Massengo.  I should’ve.  My concerns with Semenyo are not at this level per se, more that I don’t think his ceiling is that high….I don’t don’t doubt he can be a regular for us at this level.  I just don’t see a £10m player like others do.

So if we can get through the next 12 months I see a good young core coming through.

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah I think Towler will. I think at 6 foot 3, quite mobile, classy on the ball for a centre back. He's only 19 and Grimsby fans have said he should be playing a couple of levels higher than he is.

Wouldn't be surprised if Sam Bell makes it either. Seems very highly rated.

And Harvey Wiles Richards looks a very confident modern day goalkeeper. 

There's loads more as you know coming though who look really exciting. Nothing like how it was years ago when we had the odd one or two that looked quite promising.

I went with players I’m convinced will make it at this level, not “maybe make it” players….my own opinion though, that’s all.  Of the rest (inc the couple you mention) to qualify “my” thoughts:

Sam Bell (20 in May) - I haven’t seen enough to convince me.  Not saying he won’t, but I want to see more in his game than pace in u23s.  That’s doing him a disservice, because I’m sure he has more to his game than that, but I think he’s looking good at age group because he’s quick….and I’m not seeing enough (yet) of the other stuff I think he needs to get to this level.

Owura Edwards (21 in April) - is / was highly rated (Tinnion called him out), but finding it hard to get game time down at Exeter.

Harv (20 in May) - looks very capable in u23s, but really difficult to judge keepers, so I can’t add him I’m afraid.

Sam Pearson (20 next week) - convinced he will have a career in the EFL but not convinced it will be at this level.

Louis Britton (21 in March) - someone who posts on here told me he passed the beep test

Of the really young ones I’ve seen, I’m really keen to see more of Jamie Knight-Lebel (Patti to his friends).  Just 16 but looks calm and composed as a CB in the u23s in the couple of games I’ve seen him.

Really not seen enough of Low, Francois, Owers, etc.

The Championship is brutal.

 

[ray savino]

I see the following groups at the moment and for next season/the next step:

PLAYERS TO KEEP TO DEVELOP SQUAD (Please try to get Massengo contract sorted though!!!)

1) Good/Effective Core:
O’Leary, Tanner, Kalas, Atkinson, Baker, Dasilva, Pring, Williams, James, Massengo, Scott, Semenyo, Weiman.

2) Good/Potential Youngsters to integrate more into first team match day squad:
Cundy, Benarous (think he may have ability to expose to 1st team squad soon - fast track his progress if possible, but carefully of course), Conway, Janneh (has had lots of loan time so make or break, bit of a wild card but while we lack pace should give more of a chance even if only as an impact sub).

3) May need some loan time (part or full season):
Wiles-Richards, Towler, Pearson, Britton, Bell.

 

PLAYER TO MOVE ON

Players to move on for possible profit:

Bentley (Would love to keep him if we were financially in a better position, but think if we could get a decent fee to use wisely (Hahahaha!!!) then think we could get adequate cover with an experienced loan or perm and O’Leary - think type like Maenpaa or Steele.)

Players to move on at a loss:
Wells (Age/inconsistent), Palmer (inconsistent), O’Dowda (inconsistent), Moore (inconsistent), Vyner(inconsistent - maybe get decent sell on clause), Bakinson(inconsistent - maybe get decent sell on clause)

Players to move on for free:
Simpson (Age), King (Age), Martin (Age).

That’s 13 players in the squad, add 4 youngsters makes 17. Get rid of 9 (if at all possible - contracts permitting of course).

Replace with minimum of the following positions to start with:
1 x Goalie, 1 x Right side defender (poss adaptable to full back or centre back cover), 1 x Right sided Forward/Winger (or left, but think between Pring and Dasilva we could cover the left side adequately with these two seeing that money is tight), 1 x attacking midfielder/playmaker, 1 x powerful, more physical centre forward but with stamina, speed and movement, 1 x finisher preferably with some pace, stamina and movement. Who, where from I don’t know, but that’s all about our scouting, recruitment. To be fair, one or two with experience and proven would be nice, but costs - so as long as we look at Tanner/Atkinson types to grow but will compete straight away would be good. 

 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, ray savino said:

I see the following groups at the moment and for next season/the next step:

PLAYERS TO KEEP TO DEVELOP SQUAD (Please try to get Massengo contract sorted though!!!)

1) Good/Effective Core:
O’Leary, Tanner, Kalas, Atkinson, Baker, Dasilva, Pring, Williams, James, Massengo, Scott, Semenyo, Weiman.

2) Good/Potential Youngsters to integrate more into first team match day squad:
Cundy, Benarous (think he may have ability to expose to 1st team squad soon - fast track his progress if possible, but carefully of course), Conway, Janneh (has had lots of loan time so make or break, bit of a wild card but while we lack pace should give more of a chance even if only as an impact sub).

3) May need some loan time (part or full season):
Wiles-Richards, Towler, Pearson, Britton, Bell.

 

PLAYER TO MOVE ON

Players to move on for possible profit:

Bentley (Would love to keep him if we were financially in a better position, but think if we could get a decent fee to use wisely (Hahahaha!!!) then think we could get adequate cover with an experienced loan or perm and O’Leary - think type like Maenpaa or Steele.)

Players to move on at a loss:
Wells (Age/inconsistent), Palmer (inconsistent), O’Dowda (inconsistent), Moore (inconsistent), Vyner(inconsistent - maybe get decent sell on clause), Bakinson(inconsistent - maybe get decent sell on clause)

Players to move on for free:
Simpson (Age), King (Age), Martin (Age).

That’s 13 players in the squad, add 4 youngsters makes 17. Get rid of 9 (if at all possible - contracts permitting of course).

Replace with minimum of the following positions to start with:
1 x Goalie, 1 x Right side defender (poss adaptable to full back or centre back cover), 1 x Right sided Forward/Winger (or left, but think between Pring and Dasilva we could cover the left side adequately with these two seeing that money is tight), 1 x attacking midfielder/playmaker, 1 x powerful, more physical centre forward but with stamina, speed and movement, 1 x finisher preferably with some pace, stamina and movement. Who, where from I don’t know, but that’s all about our scouting, recruitment. To be fair, one or two with experience and proven would be nice, but costs - so as long as we look at Tanner/Atkinson types to grow but will compete straight away would be good. 

 

I don’t disagree with any of that, nice rationale too.  Whether we can get Kalas to commit to staying w/o fearing him going into his final year will be interesting.

If I had to choose between keeping Bentley or Kalas, I’d keep Bentley.  I think we’d get a better financial upside if we sold Kalas next summer than Bentley, plus less of a wage burden too.

[ray savino]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Whether we can get Kalas to commit to staying w/o fearing him going into his final year will be interesting.

If I had to choose between keeping Bentley or Kalas, I’d keep Bentley.  I think we’d get a better financial upside if we sold Kalas next summer than Bentley, plus less of a wage burden too.

To be fair, I think you may be right. My thinking comes from the fact that despite the flak that Kalas gets at times (on occasions with a few mistakes may be valid), he seems to carry the most authority and experience amongst our defenders. He wasn’t a captain, but I still think he is a leader. He is willing to put his body on the line and I get the firm impression that he really hurts when we mess up or lose. I do think he’s good enough to play at a higher level (lower prem, decent Champ or European team. If we did get rid, then I think we would have to get that centre back with real backbone, passion and know how, that will cost but we’d need it.

With goalies they are important. Cloughie said he rated signing Shilton as or more important than a top outfield player. I get what he meant, but in our case I do think we would get by for the moment with a good steady Eddie type keeper. Think and hope that Max could develop into the answer soon, too.

Agree though that Kalas would probably command more interest and bigger fee. Also you’re right, final year and he won’t want to drop his wage too much if at all - not to what we might want him to take. Also think professionally he may need a lot of convincing about the project here - he’s still an international, getting to his prime and a decent offer from the Bundesliga or of the like and I’d understand a desire to move, particularly after the last few years here.

The key to it to me is back to the recruitment policy. Not just selling all the best assets after one good season, but having a strategy to build. So that means having contract lengths right so players can be kept to have the time to grow together and we don’t have to say yes all the time. We inevitably will have to sell along the way, as long as we replace with players that don’t significantly weaken the team build, i.e. Brentford. Invest more wisely, etc.

If we end up getting rid of a core of best players each year then we aren’t going to grow. I think that whole recruitment thing is so bloody obvious that maybe the penny has dropped with Lansdown now as well. 

For me the hope is how our young players performed with real attitude, some real skill, know-how and courage although obviously raw. But for the first time since the Dicks era, it looks to me that there seems a decent group of young talents that are coming through together that look like they may just have the hunger to make it to the first team at this level and maybe beyond. Add some decent recruitment like Tanner and Atkinson, and add a touch of experience as well, it may start to feel like a proper plan.

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, ray savino said:

To be fair, I think you may be right. My thinking comes from the fact that despite the flak that Kalas gets at times (on occasions with a few mistakes may be valid), he seems to carry the most authority and experience amongst our defenders. He wasn’t a captain, but I still think he is a leader. He is willing to put his body on the line and I get the firm impression that he really hurts when we mess up or lose. I do think he’s good enough to play at a higher level (lower prem, decent Champ or European team. If we did get rid, then I think we would have to get that centre back with real backbone, passion and know how, that will cost but we’d need it.

With goalies they are important. Cloughie said he rated signing Shilton as or more important than a top outfield player. I get what he meant, but in our case I do think we would get by for the moment with a good steady Eddie type keeper. Think and hope that Max could develop into the answer soon, too.

Agree though that Kalas would probably command more interest and bigger fee. Also you’re right, final year and he won’t want to drop his wage too much if at all - not to what we might want him to take. Also think professionally he may need a lot of convincing about the project here - he’s still an international, getting to his prime and a decent offer from the Bundesliga or of the like and I’d understand a desire to move, particularly after the last few years here.

The key to it to me is back to the recruitment policy. Not just selling all the best assets after one good season, but having a strategy to build. So that means having contract lengths right so players can be kept to have the time to grow together and we don’t have to say yes all the time. We inevitably will have to sell along the way, as long as we replace with players that don’t significantly weaken the team build, i.e. Brentford. Invest more wisely, etc.

If we end up getting rid of a core of best players each year then we aren’t going to grow. I think that whole recruitment thing is so bloody obvious that maybe the penny has dropped with Lansdown now as well. 

For me the hope is how our young players performed with real attitude, some real skill, know-how and courage although obviously raw. But for the first time since the Dicks era, it looks to me that there seems a decent group of young talents that are coming through together that look like they may just have the hunger to make it to the first team at this level and maybe beyond. Add some decent recruitment like Tanner and Atkinson, and add a touch of experience as well, it may start to feel like a proper plan.

On what planet do you think Max could become a ‘steady Eddie’ keeper? He scares me to death, there is no way that he is going to become a regular starter in the Champioship for us or anyone other side.

So many on this thread saying sell Bentley - we may have to or he may want to move on, but he will be seriously missed , he is a top keeper at this level.

Edited October 21, 2021 by ScottishRed

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, ray savino said:

To be fair, I think you may be right. My thinking comes from the fact that despite the flak that Kalas gets at times (on occasions with a few mistakes may be valid), he seems to carry the most authority and experience amongst our defenders. He wasn’t a captain, but I still think he is a leader. He is willing to put his body on the line and I get the firm impression that he really hurts when we mess up or lose. I do think he’s good enough to play at a higher level (lower prem, decent Champ or European team. If we did get rid, then I think we would have to get that centre back with real backbone, passion and know how, that will cost but we’d need it.

With goalies they are important. Cloughie said he rated signing Shilton as or more important than a top outfield player. I get what he meant, but in our case I do think we would get by for the moment with a good steady Eddie type keeper. Think and hope that Max could develop into the answer soon, too.

Agree though that Kalas would probably command more interest and bigger fee. Also you’re right, final year and he won’t want to drop his wage too much if at all - not to what we might want him to take. Also think professionally he may need a lot of convincing about the project here - he’s still an international, getting to his prime and a decent offer from the Bundesliga or of the like and I’d understand a desire to move, particularly after the last few years here.

The key to it to me is back to the recruitment policy. Not just selling all the best assets after one good season, but having a strategy to build. So that means having contract lengths right so players can be kept to have the time to grow together and we don’t have to say yes all the time. We inevitably will have to sell along the way, as long as we replace with players that don’t significantly weaken the team build, i.e. Brentford. Invest more wisely, etc.

If we end up getting rid of a core of best players each year then we aren’t going to grow. I think that whole recruitment thing is so bloody obvious that maybe the penny has dropped with Lansdown now as well. 

For me the hope is how our young players performed with real attitude, some real skill, know-how and courage although obviously raw. But for the first time since the Dicks era, it looks to me that there seems a decent group of young talents that are coming through together that look like they may just have the hunger to make it to the first team at this level and maybe beyond. Add some decent recruitment like Tanner and Atkinson, and add a touch of experience as well, it may start to feel like a proper plan.

Basically there is no right answer!!  In an ideal world, Nige gets Bents and Kalas to sign new contracts, and continues to save money elsewhere to make selling a choice not a necessity.  That’s where the strategy should be aiming for!

Keepers are hard to get right.  A 28 year old Niki Maenpaa is what we want….on a free and low wage!!!

Max is a dilemma for me.  Perfect no2, young, homegrown, low wage.  Happy (I assume) to know if Bentley gets injured / drops form Nige will play him, as has happened last season.  I have reservations about his command of his 12 yards (but I have that with Bents too), but also his kicking.  However I do think that is more about playing regularly, getting up to match speed.  Championship centre-forwards are quick in their thoughts as well as their legs, and he’s had a few hairy moments in the past, but not stuffed up.  He’s a very good shot-stopper (I wish I could find a better term, aren’t most keepers?)  so, why do I feel uneasy if he were our no1?  Probably just the unknown I guess….yet he’s never let us down.

20 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

On what planet do you think Max could become a ‘steady Eddie’ keeper? He scares me to death, there is no way that he is going to become a regular starter in the Champioship for us or anyone other side.

So many on this thread saying sell Bentley - we may have to or he may want to move on, but he will be seriously missed , he is a top keeper at this level.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Davefevs

[ray savino]

12 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

On what planet do you think Max could become a ‘steady Eddie’ keeper? He scares me to death, there is no way that he is going to become a regular starter in the Champioship for us or anyone other side.

So many on this thread saying sell Bentley - we may have to or he may want to move on, but he will be seriously missed , he is a top keeper at this level.

Of course Bentley would be missed. I said I’d love to keep him. But if we got to generate funds I think there are so many gaps to fill in our outfield players then I think that is more of a priority. Yep he’s gained us points in many games no doubt. But in the end I’d rather have the outfield team that can get us up the other end of the field and play in the opposition box and make the opposition keeper work harder than our own keeper in a match. If we can build a side that without having to sell Bents then great, he is a top keeper. I’d rather build a team though that involves Bentley having little to do most games.

As for Max, he might be raw, but i don’t share your view that he’ll scare anybody to death. He has to learn still but can be adequate. I will say however that we have found other adequate keepers, i.e. Maenpaa, Steele. Also we should look at the loan market when it comes to goalkeepers. Other Champ clubs have done this over the last few seasons. Strange thing is, as much as I think Bentley is a good goalkeeper and particularly a great shot stopper, I often felt Maenpaa felt a safer keeper in his general handling, physical presence and command of his box. Bently is brilliant at one on one’s, great agility, but I’m not so confident in his overall ability to command his area and defend crosses (although in fairness to him, he sometimes hasn’t had loads of help in front of him).

[Clutton Caveman]

14 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I don't think many teams will want to face Antoine. He is exactly what we miss, pace and power and the lad is technically gifted. Missing some game nous , but he is a handful . I personally rate him highly and he will improve us. So I am hoping, with the others I mention, that when we finally get them playing together , we will be a far better footballing side. Nige has mentioned playing Antoine as one of  3 forwards too. 

I think Antoine has everything apart from Football intelligence and end product. He plays on instinct

[Jerseybean]

At the end of this season of those who’ve featured so far

Keep x11 

Bentley

Kalas

Tanner 

Atkinson

DaSilva

Baker

Massengo

James

Scott

Williams

Pring

Bin x5

Simpson

O’Dowda

Martin

Bakinson

Palmer

Unsure x4

Semenyo

Weimann

Vyner

Wells