Paul Simpson and Keith Downing have left

[Waconda]

16 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Sorry not convinced.........i remember something similar being said about some bloke called Holden?     A quality coach with a solid experienced background of coaching quality footballers is needed, from outside the club, not more in house make doing, Alex might be a lovely bloke, but is CV is not exactly stupendous?              

You ever seen him coaching ?

You ever seen NP coaching ?

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think Millen was a logical appointment either, unfortunately. 

Clearly not a manager at Championship level, as his record since leaving us has borne out. That's the same for every single one of Lansdown's appointments though, arguably. 

None have gone onto better things as first team managers. Maybe McInnes....

Fair enough, it’s a point of view.

I am of the opinion at least in Millen’s case and in the strange circumstances surrounding Coppell & his departure I could see the logic of it.

[maxjak]

12 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

You ever seen him coaching ?

You ever seen NP coaching ?

No and No........Have you ever seen a unicorn?

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

No and No........Have you ever seen a unicorn?

Nope.

[maxjak]

15 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Holden had a long professional career but the issue wasn't that he was appointed as a coach but that he was appointed manager. With Holden, you're talking about someone appointed to a job they've never previously shown aptitude for. With Ball, you're talking about someone appointed to do the exact same job as they are already doing but at a higher profile. That's a completely different thing.

Personally 'm neither convinced nor unconvinced on Ball. How can I be when I know nothing about him as a coach? But I'm not going to start claiming someone with multiple years of experience as a coach who I have never personally seen coaching anyone is the wrong appointment just because he's come from inside the club rather than outside. 

 Only time will tell, and I fully appreciate patience is needed only 5 months into a so called 3 year project.  One thing I do believe is that more communication with the fanbase is needed, because if Nige loses the fanbase then it's a sinking ship.   I am frustrated at present, and maybe Alex Ball WILL work out.....i just think there is a big difference between youth coaching and the organisation of the First team squad.  Downing and Simpson came from coaching young players, and that did not work out.  I would like to see an experienced coach with a solid professional CV of First team coaching come in and organise and motivate....... ..but that is just me.

[cidered abroad]

Managing people is relatively easy for the good managers as they can stay remote from the mass.

Coaching needs are so different. Being firm yet being friendly can be a disaster if the latter prevails. And with a group of mickey taking, young footballers, it is very easy for a coach to lose control and respect.

[The Bard]

53 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Sorry not convinced.........i remember something similar being said about some bloke called Holden?     A quality coach with a solid experienced background of coaching quality footballers is needed, from outside the club, not more in house make doing, Alex might be a lovely bloke, but is CV is not exactly stupendous?              

Jesus, do you really think that CV = someone's ability to do the job?

You do realise the world is full of bluffers with great CVs on the one hand with people who are good at their job but underappreciated and undervalued on the other.  A smart employer avoids the first not the second.  

 

[Kid in the Riot]

40 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

LJ ?

Not yet. But currently doing a good job at a massive club with a billionaire owner. Every chance he could be pretty successful 

[Merrick's Marvels]

48 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Please all correct me if i am wrong?  Is our first team coach NOW Alex Ball who after making 1 first team appearance long ago, coached youth level at Southampton and City and had a spell at Bath City?  Surely in our current situation we need to bring in a quality coach to drill & organise a squad with no identity and no discernible consistent pattern of play.........and who are switched between 4-5-1  4-4-2 etc etc blah blah by a manager who seems not to know his best line up or formation?   A manager who rarely if ever actually coaches our first team squad, but spends his time motivating and inspiring the first team, while humiliating young players by inappropriately substituting them after half an hour?

Sorry to drone on, but i am frustrated and concerned about what is currently going on at the club we support..........and with little or no communication to the fans who support the team through thin and thin, I am phecked off

As others have said, a person's playing career doesn't correlate to their abilities as a coach. See Bobby Charlton or the reverse, Mourinho. Tons of others examples are available on request. Thomas Tuchel, Jurgen Klopp... 

Coaching is about communication.  

But if you want to go down that route the answer is:  Curtis Fleming now runs our coaching not Alex Ball, who assists. That's Curtis Fleming with 400+ appearances as a player, mostly for Boro and Palace. Curtis Fleming who played in the Premier League and Championship. The Curtis Fleming who's spent most of the last 10 years coaching at Championship clubs too. If there was a correlation, that's a pretty good CV for the likes of Bristol City, I'd say.

I agree with you about communication though - it would be good to hear Pearson explain his thinking about these recent departures. I'm sure it's just the standard common practice of a new manager wanting to work with coaches of his choosing, not with the previous manager's coaches. Nothing more to see here, move along please. This would ordinarily have been done in the summer - the fact it wasn't indicates the scale of the mess Pearson inherited - a club in dire need of root and branch change, from top to bottom; it indicates a new manager taking his time to assess these priorities, it indicates a new manager being decent enough to give everyone at the club a chance to prove themselves, rather than being sacked on the spot.

Also, why have 4 voices the players have to listen to at training when 2 will do - this is just about making communication from the coaches to the players as streamlined, as clear, as possible. 

As others have said elsewhere, Pearson may or may not lead us to the Promised Land but the changes he's making, the structure and foundations he's putting in place, will stand us in good stead.

Annd the fact he's having to do this at all is a damning indictment of how we've been run.            

[Peter1450]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not yet. But currently doing a good job at a massive club with a billionaire owner. Every chance he could be pretty successful 

      Not fan of Lee Johnson,but maybe he wasn’t the problem that many thought.

[maxjak]

12 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Jesus, do you really think that CV = someone's ability to do the job?

You do realise the world is full of bluffers with great CVs on the one hand with people who are good at their job but underappreciated and undervalued on the other.  A smart employer avoids the first not the second.  

 

Jesus...do you not realise that CV is a generalised term not acquainted to just  a piece of paper but is an umbrella term used to determine the background and accomplishments of the individual in the interview, background checks and impressions made.  Have you ever considered joining pedants anonymous?.........Send me your CV and I will see if you qualify?

[BigAl&Toby]

3 hours ago, Hampshire reds said:

So instead of saying i am negative what is your take on where the club is at the moment. 

My take on it is this:

Nice guys rarely succeed. They haven’t here. We need nasty bastards.

These 2, along with Holden, should never have replaced LJ. 

LJ himself outstayed his welcome or ability.

Ashton should never have been here in the first place. Watching him and LJ turn up at Brentford a few seasons back - suited and brown shoe’d and all teeth told me everything I needed to know.

We’ve been to cosy for far too long. No ambition. No passion. No drive. No ******* clue.

 

Wonder why? Someone hasn’t wanted “it” I’d say…..

And how are the Bears doing? Nige - if allowed to - will make the difference.

[sludge]

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

I love lansdown and am thankful for his ownership,

But that's his problem he is too loyal to people when he needs to be a bit more cutthroat, not as far a forest or Watford but more akin to Swansea 

He didn't show much loyalty to Steve Cotterill though.

[zippycar]

2 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Its a little surprising that Steve hasn't really transferred his huge success re; HL into the football side of Bristol City..

Stumbling is a suitable analogy.

But it wasn't just SL at HL, as the name suggests and SL wasn't the ruthless one or the majority shareholder 

[sludge]

5 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

My take on it is this:

Nice guys rarely succeed. They haven’t here. We need nasty bastards.

These 2, along with Holden, should never have replaced LJ. 

LJ himself outstayed his welcome or ability.

Ashton should never have been here in the first place. Watching him and LJ turn up at Brentford a few seasons back - suited and brown shoe’d and all teeth told me everything I needed to know.

We’ve been to cosy for far too long. No ambition. No passion. No drive. No ******* clue.

 

Wonder why? Someone hasn’t wanted “it” I’d say…..

And how are the Bears doing? Nige - if allowed to - will make the difference.

Is it a question of not wanting it, or wanting to do it 'his way'?

[Redrascal2]

3 hours ago, Hampshire reds said:

So instead of saying i am negative what is your take on where the club is at the moment. 

My take is we are really up against it and relentlessly knocking Pearson isn't helping. We know your views on him and you may turn out to be right. But we do not need the same thing trotted out at every opportunity. You never seem to comment when we win an away game because it does not fit your "war on Pearson" agenda. I think he is our best bet to get us out of this and appreciate him for taking on the challenge. It is an enormous one. Apart from the HPC everything else at the club has been left to go to pot. And the owner seems like he is not interested or unaware of the problems we have. The process of turning the club around will take time and without financial support even longer. For me stick with Pearson but expect more pain before the  shoots of recovery appear. His track record shows he has the ability to do this. 

[maxjak]

7 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

As others have said, a person's playing career doesn't correlate to their abilities as a coach. See Bobby Charlton or the reverse, Mourinho. Tons of others examples are available on request. Thomas Tuchel, Jurgen Klopp... 

Coaching is about communication.  

But if you want to go down that route the answer is:  Curtis Fleming now runs our coaching not Alex Ball, who assists. That's Curtis Fleming with 400+ appearances as a player, mostly for Boro and Palace. Curtis Fleming who played in the Premier League and Championship. The Curtis Fleming who's spent most of the last 10 years coaching at Championship clubs too. If there was a correlation, that's a pretty good CV for the likes of Bristol City, I'd say.

I agree with you about communication though - it would be good to hear Pearson explain his thinking about these recent departures. I'm sure it's just the standard common practice of a new manager wanting to work with coaches of his choosing, not with the previous manager's coaches. Nothing more to see here, move along please. This would ordinarily have been done in the summer - the fact it wasn't indicates the scale of the mess Pearson inherited - a club in dire need of root and branch change, from top to bottom; it indicates a new manager taking his time to assess these priorities, it indicates a new manager being decent enough to give everyone at the club a chance to prove themselves, rather than being sacked on the spot.

Also, why have 4 voices the players have to listen to at training when 2 will do - this is just about making communication from the coaches to the players as streamlined, as clear, as possible. 

As others have said elsewhere, Pearson may or may not lead us to the Promised Land but the changes he's making, the structure and foundations he's putting in place, will stand us in good stead.

Annd the fact he's having to do this at all is a damning indictment of how we've been run.            

That is why at he very beginning of my post.........I said "Correct me if I am wrong"?   Equating it to communication, I had no idea who was doing what, due to the inability of the club to communicate with the fanbase?  Also if you read earlier in the post you would have seen that someone accused me of thinking that you had to be a top player, to be a top coach......and i put forward the exact names you used, to prove my point.   Good luck to CF in his endeavours to organise and motivate the squad,  God knows , that some high quality coaching is needed, as recently we have seemed just as all over the place as during previous incumbents, in regard to formations, basic passing skills and leadership.   My comments are a product of the frustration i feel at present, as I feel that very little progress is being made, and after an initial improvement we seem to be prone to all the bad habits that have been endemic at our club for the past  , who knows how long?  ha!!

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think Millen was a logical appointment either, unfortunately. 

Clearly not a manager at Championship level, as his record since leaving us has borne out. That's the same for every single one of Lansdown's appointments though, arguably. 

None have gone onto better things as first team managers. Maybe McInnes....

Hugely thankful for the Lansdown family fortune, but SL legacy will always be tarnished by his choice of managers and people to run the club.

[The Bard]

10 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Jesus...do you not realise that CV is a generalised term not acquainted to just  a piece of paper but is an umbrella term used to determine the background and accomplishments of the individual in the interview, background checks and impressions made.  Have you ever considered joining pedants anonymous?.........Send me your CV and I will see if you qualify?

I think my point is, perhaps Alex Ball comes under the 2nd category?  You'd hope so as Nige has been in place for 8 months and so has seen him work.  Willing to jettison 2 experienced coaches to enable him to step up. A CV means a lot less than actually seeing someone work.  He may have a name or 2 in mind long term but perhaps the imperative from his point of view was removing 2 people who  don't get what he wants.   

[Waconda]

54 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not yet. But currently doing a good job at a massive club with a billionaire owner. Every chance he could be pretty successful 

Yep.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Maybe Ball is a quality coach? I have no idea but - regardless of his playing experience - he's been coaching for a long time. It might be that the reason he is being promoted - or at least being given a chance to work with the first team for now - is because Pearson and others at the club have seen that he has the attributes to drill and organise the squad.

I'd far rather we appointed someone with years of coaching experience than a "name" player in the hope that they can coach. 

As I’ve posted before I wonder whether during Simmo’s illness he came in and impressed Nige, and with Fleming coming in too, there was no need for Simmo and Keith.  Complete speculation from me, but I wonder with their age group success they were offered a swap to work in the academy….and both ultimately turned it down.

Someone who posts on here said he thought Ball puts on good sessions, that players like.  That’s a start.

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

Sorry not convinced.........i remember something similar being said about some bloke called Holden?     A quality coach with a solid experienced background of coaching quality footballers is needed, from outside the club, not more in house make doing, Alex might be a lovely bloke, but is CV is not exactly stupendous?              

We aren’t asking Ball to be manager, nor assistants (assistant head coaches) like Simmo and Keith or Holden and Macca (to LJ)….he’s come in to coach.  Might be a subtle difference, could be a big difference.  Without being at the HPC it’s tough to know.

I would like confirmation on Kalifa Cisse’s role too in the new set-up.

49 minutes ago, Peter1450 said:

      Not fan of Lee Johnson,but maybe he wasn’t the problem that many thought.

His problem was being a duo with MA, a dangerous duo.  He needed a Nigel Pearson around to tell him not to fall for Ashton’s BS, and to challenge his “innovative” tactical ideas.

[Jeez]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

 Only time will tell, and I fully appreciate patience is needed only 5 months into a so called 3 year project.  One thing I do believe is that more communication with the fanbase is needed, because if Nige loses the fanbase then it's a sinking ship.   I am frustrated at present, and maybe Alex Ball WILL work out.....i just think there is a big difference between youth coaching and the organisation of the First team squad.  Downing and Simpson came from coaching young players, and that did not work out.  I would like to see an experienced coach with a solid professional CV of First team coaching come in and organise and motivate....... ..but that is just me.

What hasn't been considered is the mindset of the departing coaches vs the mindset of someone like Alex Ball.

PS & KD came across as quite dour personalities who gave the impression of been round the block many times & bit jaded as football people. They also have lived through the sh1tshow all the way since DH, which will take its toll on their ability to lift the group.

AB comes across & as a younger, energetic coach who hasn't been affected by the past 18 months. The biggest weakness is our losing at home mentality - refreshing the coaching environment or taking out those who can't lift the spirits is a good call.

 

[BCFCinNW6]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

 Only time will tell, and I fully appreciate patience is needed only 5 months into a so called 3 year project.  One thing I do believe is that more communication with the fanbase is needed, because if Nige loses the fanbase then it's a sinking ship.   I am frustrated at present, and maybe Alex Ball WILL work out.....i just think there is a big difference between youth coaching and the organisation of the First team squad.  Downing and Simpson came from coaching young players, and that did not work out.  I would like to see an experienced coach with a solid professional CV of First team coaching come in and organise and motivate....... ..but that is just me.

How much more comms do you need from the club? They push out so many manager interviews, player content / interviews and everything else, I sometimes wonder if there’s anytime for the actual football. 

[maxjak]

5 minutes ago, BCFCinNW6 said:

How much more comms do you need from the club? They push out so many manager interviews, player content / interviews and everything else, I sometimes wonder if there’s anytime for the actual football. 

It's not the amount.........it's the quality of the information.  It's easy to churn out pointless fan pleasing content, I am referring to decision making and aspects of the running of the club that directly affect the fanbase.  It would be good to be kept informed about important issues, rather than stuff like........ Dasilva's Message to the fans (Currently on the news site) which is a pile of useless crap  IMHO?

[LondonBristolian]

41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As I’ve posted before I wonder whether during Simmo’s illness he came in and impressed Nige, and with Fleming coming in too, there was no need for Simmo and Keith.  Complete speculation from me, but I wonder with their age group success they were offered a swap to work in the academy….and both ultimately turned it down.

 

Sounds wholly plausible 

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, maxjak said:

It's not the amount.........it's the quality of the information.  It's easy to churn out pointless fan pleasing content, I am referring to decision making and aspects of the running of the club that directly affect the fanbase.  It would be good to be kept informed about important issues, rather than stuff like........ Dasilva's Message to the fans (Currently on the news site) which is a pile of useless crap  IMHO?

I get what you are saying but I think there's reasons why it is not possible.

I've no idea where you work but, if you are employed rather than self-employed, you can probably imagine what would happen if your employer started giving public running commentary on every decision made and everything you and your colleagues had done behind the scenes.

It would quickly get messy, leave no room for confidential conversations and almost certainly result in resignations and some form of legal actions. Asking the club to do all their HR publicly just isn't a reasonable ask. 

[Clutton Caveman]

On 24/10/2021 at 05:21, Olé said:

Putting aside the debate and general consensus that it's the right thing to do - even if it is, what the hell is happening at the club that we "sack" one first team coach on the eve of an important fixture and right in the middle of a busy run of fixtures and then don't turn up with the other first team coach at that fixture too. 

Don't tell me this was planned because if it seriously was whoever planned it is a moron. You expect players to be well focussed for games not surrounded by off the field soap opera and uncertainty. If this was planned it would have been done in the summer or at least an international break. I expected better from Pearson. 

Moving on his predecessors coaches may well have been increasingly desirable to NP, but in timing and handling this smacks of being both knee jerk and the result of some major falling out. I fully expected us to lose by a hatful today not just because we always do but because the situation is clearly totally unstable.

I guess someone had to carry the can for current team performance

[Monkeh]

4 hours ago, Hampshire reds said:

Brian Clough said in a interview if you want to be a good manager you need to get the best people you can around you. Has or is Pearson going to do that. maybe he has them already.

Brian clough also said "Hampshire reds does nothing but moan"

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, sludge said:

He didn't show much loyalty to Steve Cotterill though.

And there is a reason why 

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I guess someone had to carry the can for current team performance

Maybe they wanted out.