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Paul Simpson and Keith Downing have left


ray savino

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15 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

I've never really got what they brought to the party and it just never seemed a good fit.  NP has had time to come to the same opinion I think.  Might well be as simple as they haven't got the wherewithal to get across NPs message, tactics and formations to the players. Let's be honest, they been the one consistent feature through our terrible home run, numerous late collapses and lack of shape on the field.  Coincidence?

You’re clutching at straws there mate.  They’re experienced coaches - not able to get Pearson’s message across?  You forget that up until the disastrous injury-affected losing streak of six games that led to Holden’s sacking, we were doing well and just outside the play-offs.  They seemed to be doing all right then.  Pearson is the manager, if he can’t even communicate the formation to the players then I despair.  Who’s he going to sack next?  Scott Murray?  Beryl Fudge (chucked that one in for the oldies ?)?

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46 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You’re clutching at straws there mate.  They’re experienced coaches - not able to get Pearson’s message across?  You forget that up until the disastrous injury-affected losing streak of six games that led to Holden’s sacking, we were doing well and just outside the play-offs.  They seemed to be doing all right then.  Pearson is the manager, if he can’t even communicate the formation to the players then I despair.  Who’s he going to sack next?  Scott Murray?  Beryl Fudge (chucked that one in for the oldies ?)?

Perhaps they’re not very good at communicating /coaching NP’s ideas . Not innovative enough ? I still don’t see enough movement . A improvement on last year but still not enough. This is down to coaching. 

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1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

Did Mark Ashton know Downing through West Brom?

Their timelines don’t seem to cross at any point, although with Ashton living in that area and contacts in football in that area they could’ve known each other.

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You’re clutching at straws there mate.  They’re experienced coaches - not able to get Pearson’s message across?  You forget that up until the disastrous injury-affected losing streak of six games that led to Holden’s sacking, we were doing well and just outside the play-offs.  They seemed to be doing all right then.  Pearson is the manager, if he can’t even communicate the formation to the players then I despair.  Who’s he going to sack next?  Scott Murray?  Beryl Fudge (chucked that one in for the oldies ?)?

The problem with your posts is that they all route back to it being Pearson’s fault.  You don’t want him here do you?  Your points get lost by your agenda.

You could’ve just left it at “they’re experienced coaches”, you don’t have to then go on to say “if he can’t even communicate the formation….”.  That just makes you post look petty and cheap, and agenda-based.

FWIW, I doubt they are bad coaches too, just like I doubt Andy Rolls was Dr Death….but they might not be a good fit for City / Pearson right now, or in Rolls case made a mistake last pre-season.  They have longevity in football, they don’t strike me as blaggers.  Just think Nige wants different personnel.

Again FWIW, it would not surprise me if there were plans earlier this season to replace, but Simmo’s illness might’ve put them on hold.  I can only assume he’s made a full recovery (fingers crossed) and City / Pearson stood by him whilst he returned to good health….but now it’s time to implement the plan….just it’s a bit delayed.

As footballers I really liked Simmo, apart from his hat-trick, I know someone who played in Man City’s youth team with him and he says he was an unbelievable talent.  But I liked Keith’s interviews, I liked his enthusiasm.

I wish them all the best.  Ever worked for someone where it wasn’t a match made in heaven?  In football that happens all the time.

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Their timelines don’t seem to cross at any point, although with Ashton living in that area and contacts in football in that area they could’ve known each other.

The problem with your posts is that they all route back to it being Pearson’s fault.  You don’t want him here do you?  Your points get lost by your agenda.

You could’ve just left it at “they’re experienced coaches”, you don’t have to then go on to say “if he can’t even communicate the formation….”.  That just makes you post look petty and cheap, and agenda-based.

FWIW, I doubt they are bad coaches too, just like I doubt Andy Rolls was Dr Death….but they might not be a good fit for City / Pearson right now, or in Rolls case made a mistake last pre-season.  They have longevity in football, they don’t strike me as blaggers.  Just think Nige wants different personnel.

Again FWIW, it would not surprise me if there were plans earlier this season to replace, but Simmo’s illness might’ve put them on hold.  I can only assume he’s made a full recovery (fingers crossed) and City / Pearson stood by him whilst he returned to good health….but now it’s time to implement the plan….just it’s a bit delayed.

As footballers I really liked Simmo, apart from his hat-trick, I know someone who played in Man City’s youth team with him and he says he was an unbelievable talent.  But I liked Keith’s interviews, I liked his enthusiasm.

I wish them all the best.  Ever worked for someone where it wasn’t a match made in heaven?  In football that happens all the time.

A good post Dave, and I largely agree.

Try to lay off @The Dolman Pragmatist, though; he is recovering from a stressful haircut.

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Putting aside the debate and general consensus that it's the right thing to do - even if it is, what the hell is happening at the club that we "sack" one first team coach on the eve of an important fixture and right in the middle of a busy run of fixtures and then don't turn up with the other first team coach at that fixture too. 

Don't tell me this was planned because if it seriously was whoever planned it is a moron. You expect players to be well focussed for games not surrounded by off the field soap opera and uncertainty. If this was planned it would have been done in the summer or at least an international break. I expected better from Pearson. 

Moving on his predecessors coaches may well have been increasingly desirable to NP, but in timing and handling this smacks of being both knee jerk and the result of some major falling out. I fully expected us to lose by a hatful today not just because we always do but because the situation is clearly totally unstable.

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No Keith Downing here today... 

No.

Is he likely to be back in the dugout? What's going on there? Obviously Paul [Simpson] left yesterday as well. 

I can't give you any confirmation as to where that will go at the moment but as I've already pointed out it was Paul's decision to settle with the club.

I don't want players at the club if they don't want to be here and likewise the staff. It's very straightforward in my head.

Will you replace him? 

Replace who?

Paul... 

I don't know on that one, we'll see what happens. As far as I'm concerned it's football. I've got no time to dwell on irrelevant situations if they have negative connotations for the squad. I don't have anything further to add.

From the EP.

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16 hours ago, !james said:

 

 

 

Wow.  I was out last night, missed this.

7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Agree that this should have been done in the summer . There is a lot wrong at the club and the correcting of Ashtons mess is proving more painful than anticipated . It is a time to be brave. If the true story ever came out the fans might be more accommodating 

Ooooh, tell us more ?

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12 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

No Keith Downing here today... 

No.

Is he likely to be back in the dugout? What's going on there? Obviously Paul [Simpson] left yesterday as well. 

I can't give you any confirmation as to where that will go at the moment but as I've already pointed out it was Paul's decision to settle with the club.

I don't want players at the club if they don't want to be here and likewise the staff. It's very straightforward in my head.

Will you replace him? 

Replace who?

Paul... 

I don't know on that one, we'll see what happens. As far as I'm concerned it's football. I've got no time to dwell on irrelevant situations if they have negative connotations for the squad. I don't have anything further to add.

From the EP.

All a bit mysterious sounding.
 

Feels to me, like we are rapidly reaching a watershed moment in Pearson’s career here. I like him, think that it’s a long job and he’s the man for it.

But I have a creeping feeling that everything is someone’s else’s fault and he’s deflecting blame. Lets hope I’m proven wrong and he really is identifying problems, fixing them and setting something up for the greater good. 

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24 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

All a bit mysterious sounding.
 

Feels to me, like we are rapidly reaching a watershed moment in Pearson’s career here. I like him, think that it’s a long job and he’s the man for it.

But I have a creeping feeling that everything is someone’s else’s fault and he’s deflecting blame. Lets hope I’m proven wrong and he really is identifying problems, fixing them and setting something up for the greater good. 

Where has he deflected blame ? 

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7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Agree that this should have been done in the summer . There is a lot wrong at the club and the correcting of Ashtons mess is proving more painful than anticipated . It is a time to be brave. If the true story ever came out the fans might be more accommodating 

You apparently have some close contact in the club and as a very long standing supporter, I appreciate your comments.

We've had enough dressing room problems over the years, the days of Rance and a useless Board in the First Division. I consider that the worst one was the Doherty management in 1958 when he created a totally split squad due to an inability to understand that a promise from HD was sacrosanct. Relegation followed that event and it is possible that the same will happen this time.

Nigel Pearson appears to be one of those who will build us back again and I'm almost praying that we can keep away from the drop zone until he can get a couple or three in in January. Otherwise he'll need a Third Division promotion.

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7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Agree that this should have been done in the summer . There is a lot wrong at the club and the correcting of Ashtons mess is proving more painful than anticipated . It is a time to be brave. If the true story ever came out the fans might be more accommodating 

Yep, but in Simpson’s case I think his illness was why we didn’t.

As an employer myself doing so then would almost certainly lead to a constructive dismissal case, as well as the way sacking someone in the middle of his cancer treatment looks from the outside.

That doesn’t apply re Downing though & he certainly could have gone then.

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14 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Where has he deflected blame ? 

Where had he accepted blame?

He keeps referring to passengers and people not wanting to be on the bus.

He’s got rid of Simpson and Downing.

Got rid of quite a few players in the summer.

Brought in a few he knew who have proven to be mediocre. 

At some point you can only move so many pieces before the spotlight falls on you.

We’re approaching that now with Pearson. 

I’m still of the opinion he’s the man long term, this is not a NP out rant. But to my mind, it’s becoming a bit, “I’ll change this to disguise this”. 
 

He should have made an impact by now. In drives and drabs he has, but there should be more improvement.  

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35 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

All a bit mysterious sounding.
 

Feels to me, like we are rapidly reaching a watershed moment in Pearson’s career here. I like him, think that it’s a long job and he’s the man for it.

But I have a creeping feeling that everything is someone’s else’s fault and he’s deflecting blame. Lets hope I’m proven wrong and he really is identifying problems, fixing them and setting something up for the greater good. 

Why were they both in England jobs? Great coaches technically?

Or not hard enough with players? Too chummy with them?

Maybe a bit like Holden with such as Paterson?

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4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Why were they both in England jobs? Great coaches technically?

Or not hard enough with players? Too chummy with them?

Maybe a bit like Holden with such as Paterson?

I’m assuming in under 21s you get to work with cream of crop every couple of months and the coaching side is to some respects a bit redundant. You have minimal Time to make any impact.
Full time championship you HAVE to make a change, you have to impact those players. You’ve got to get those players to change. You have to motivate them and inspire them everyday.
 

(Having said that Simpson did ok at Carlisle, so the above may be moot). 

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I personally think it was a case of prove to me that your good enough to be here, I think they should of gone in the summer and quite honestly they've brought nothing to improve things on the coaching side.. Maybe to soft to pally with players just like holden but Pearson is right don't want to be here then leave just wish a couple of players would come forward and say that as well we need clear out!!

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9 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Agree that this should have been done in the summer . There is a lot wrong at the club and the correcting of Ashtons mess is proving more painful than anticipated . It is a time to be brave. If the true story ever came out the fans might be more accommodating 

Hopefully it will. Sometimes it's better to be honest and upfront about the situation. Too much secrecy just causes problems.

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8 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I consider that the worst one was the Doherty management in 1958 when he created a totally split squad due to an inability to understand that a promise from HD was sacrosanct. Relegation followed that event and it is possible that the same will happen this time.

Sounds like an interesting time, feel free to expand on that ?

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On 24/10/2021 at 22:38, mozo said:

Sounds like an interesting time, feel free to expand on that ?

It's before me time so @cidered abroad may have a fuller story, but I seem to remember from the HD book that it was to do with summer pay, which I think HD had promised would remain the same as winter pay? Doherty tried to go back on that agreement.

There was also some issues around the Irish players he signed and sectarianism? 

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just wondering, could either Simpson or Downing have been offered the u23s / Academy role as Nige liked what he saw from Alex Ball?

I think Pearson & Ball’s style of football matches quite well, if Ball does step up could be Nigel wanting staff who can coach the style of play effectively.

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