Paul Simpson and Keith Downing have left

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

The big disappointment with these two guys was the complete lack of quality loans for the England players they knew and worked with. 
Many of us thought that we’d get one or two ‘ Tammy ‘ type loans in. 

That disappointed and quite surprised me as well.

Whilst I appreciate that Steve Cooper was manager at Swansea (rather than assistant coach) , he seemed to be able to tap in to his previous youth contacts quite regularly. 

[Out of his pie crust]

13 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

So instead of saying i am negative what is your take on where the club is at the moment. 

Positionally, where I thought we’ll end up this season. Trajectory not good, in a fairly bad place. Feels like nows the time where the players will need some positive backing to halt the slide. Depends on your take on life I guess, maybe the players need the stick approach and will respond to booing etc.. 

[CodeRed]

4 hours ago, RedM said:

I don’t think anyone has left but people have been shuffled around or given new titles.

Great!   I'm a lot more confident about Saturday now! 

[mozo]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

The big disappointment with these two guys was the complete lack of quality loans for the England players they knew and worked with. 
Many of us thought that we’d get one or two ‘ Tammy ‘ type loans in. 

Yeah we were all hoping they had connections but we didn't see any evidence of it.

1 hour ago, Out of his pie crust said:

Plan: stay up and improve next season

I agree that is the plan (depressing as it sounds), but I worry about the 'improve next season' bit. How? 

I presume we will improve by making some inspired recruitment (after all, we don't have money to spend), and by coaching our players to perform better (minus two coaches!)

It places a lot of pressure on our recruitment (see other thread!) It also requires the continued development of our U23s as they will inevitably be part of the solution.

The other part of the plan is to reduce the wage bill, which Nige and Gould should be able to do over time.

[LondonBristolian]

34 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah we were all hoping they had connections but we didn't see any evidence of it.

I agree that is the plan (depressing as it sounds), but I worry about the 'improve next season' bit. How? 

I presume we will improve by making some inspired recruitment (after all, we don't have money to spend), and by coaching our players to perform better (minus two coaches!)

It places a lot of pressure on our recruitment (see other thread!) It also requires the continued development of our U23s as they will inevitably be part of the solution.

The other part of the plan is to reduce the wage bill, which Nige and Gould should be able to do over time.

I think at the moment we are basically waiting for players' contracts to end and our hands are tied until that happens

I imagine the plan is to try to use what budget we have to improve key positions with Atkinson/Tanner style signings who can improve with us over time (and potentially ultimately be sold at a profit) whilst making low-cost stopgap signings (a la King and Simpson) to flesh out the squad where needed.

As for next season, I think Tanner, Atkinson, Pring, Massengo, Scott and Semenyo will hopefully get better whilst Conway, Bell, Pearson and Towler might get closer to challenging for a place in the squad. O'Dowda and Martin are out of contract at the end of the season and that might free up the wages to get players who'll complement the squad. I don't think we need big money signings so much as more balance. If we got a bit more pace and creativity in the squad that would immediately offer a little more than we have now. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by LondonBristolian

[Out of his pie crust]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

Yeah we were all hoping they had connections but we didn't see any evidence of it.

I agree that is the plan (depressing as it sounds), but I worry about the 'improve next season' bit. How? 

I presume we will improve by making some inspired recruitment (after all, we don't have money to spend), and by coaching our players to perform better (minus two coaches!)

It places a lot of pressure on our recruitment (see other thread!) It also requires the continued development of our U23s as they will inevitably be part of the solution.

The other part of the plan is to reduce the wage bill, which Nige and Gould should be able to do over time.

Improve next season: for me a realistic outlook is a very moderate improvement on a variety of things….league position, maybe 3 places, young players getting a bit better, wage bill equalized, and team cohesion on the pitch, perhaps looking like we deserve to win maybe 5 more matches than this season. I can’t see things improving as dramatically as people would like (we're I think at least 3 seasons away from playoffs and that’s assuming the above happens). Just my take of course.

[Monkeh]

53 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

So instead of saying i am negative what is your take on where the club is at the moment. 

That it's in a period of change which is long overdue 

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

The big disappointment with these two guys was the complete lack of quality loans for the England players they knew and worked with. 
Many of us thought that we’d get one or two ‘ Tammy ‘ type loans in. 

In fairness to them they could have suggested players to take on loan but the restrictions in finances could have put a stop to it. As we all know now with loan fee’s and the wages involved loans aren’t as financially viable as they used to be.

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, Out of his pie crust said:

Improve next season: for me a realistic outlook is a very moderate improvement on a variety of things….league position, maybe 3 places, young players getting a bit better, wage bill equalized, and team cohesion on the pitch, perhaps looking like we deserve to win maybe 5 more matches than this season. I can’t see things improving as dramatically as people would like (we're I think at least 3 seasons away from playoffs and that’s assuming the above happens). Just my take of course.

Sounds pretty rational to me. 

[Kid in the Riot]

15 hours ago, 2015 said:

I will never know how we managed to have a coaching team of Holden/Downing/Simpson after a month without a Manager, when LJ left us in more than an adequate position for a proven manager to push us on.

To me it will be a huge turning point in the History of this club over the next decade. A huge c*** up similar to the club choosing Pulis over Moyes. It has set this club back years

It was a much worse appointment than Pulis. 

On paper Pulis had done a good job at Gillingham. It made sense to an extent. 

Holden was a terrible appointment that made absolutely no sense. But by far the worst thing about it was that Steve Lansdown had made two similar appointments previously (Tinnion and Millen) which were also failures. 

Completely inexcusable and as I've said previously, if Steve was an employee of the club making decisions like that, he'd have been fired a long, long time ago. 

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, Hampshire reds said:

Alex Ball been promoted has that been confirmed or was that a temporary move to take in the WBA game.  

12 hours ago, Lrrr said:

The fact that no replacement is being sought combined with Micky Bell's addition to the academy on a full time basis would indicate its not just a short thing, if Micky was just filling in there would be no need to announce it

Plus the fact that Ball is with the first team all this week, shows it wasn’t just for WBA. It might not be forever, but he’s with the first team for the foreseeable. 

46 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

That disappointed and quite surprised me as well.

Whilst I appreciate that Steve Cooper was manager at Swansea (rather than assistant coach) , he seemed to be able to tap in to his previous youth contacts quite regularly. 

Mainly because Swansea had PPs and could get the likes of Guehi who would’ve been on high cost side. We are skint(ish), nor were Keith and Simmo the manager. We did bring in Sessegnon!

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It was a much worse appointment than Pulis. 

On paper Pulis had done a good job at Gillingham. It made sense to an extent. 

Holden was a terrible appointment that made absolutely no sense. But by far the worst thing about it was that Steve Lansdown had made two similar appointments previously (Tinnion and Millen) which were also failures. 

Completely inexcusable and as I've said previously, if Steve was an employee of the club making decisions like that, he'd have been fired a long, long time ago. 

I love lansdown and am thankful for his ownership,

But that's his problem he is too loyal to people when he needs to be a bit more cutthroat, not as far a forest or Watford but more akin to Swansea 

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I love lansdown and am thankful for his ownership,

But that's his problem he is too loyal to people when he needs to be a bit more cutthroat, not as far a forest or Watford but more akin to Swansea 

I'm thankful for his financial support but his footballing decisions have left A LOT to be desired. 

Once again the entire football operation is being restructured and the Pearson era is leading to another change in direction.

It's been 20 years of haphazard decision-making with no clear plan. 

Swansea, for example, have even gone through different owners but seem to have the same football model/strategy they've had since about 2004.

We stumble from one strategy to the next.

[BetterRedthanBlue]

Wish both of them all the best.

Could see why we did it when we appointed Deano to give some experience around him.

Hopefully this restructuring will be beneficial in the short and the long term.

[Son of Fred]

9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm thankful for his financial support but his footballing decisions have left A LOT to be desired. 

Once again the entire football operation is being restructured and the Pearson era is leading to another change in direction.

It's been 20 years of haphazard decision-making with no clear plan. 

Swansea, for example, have even gone through different owners but seem to have the same football model/strategy they've had since about 2004.

We stumble from one strategy to the next.

Its a little surprising that Steve hasn't really transferred his huge success re; HL into the football side of Bristol City..

Stumbling is a suitable analogy.

[2015]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm thankful for his financial support but his footballing decisions have left A LOT to be desired. 

Once again the entire football operation is being restructured and the Pearson era is leading to another change in direction.

It's been 20 years of haphazard decision-making with no clear plan. 

Swansea, for example, have even gone through different owners but seem to have the same football model/strategy they've had since about 2004.

We stumble from one strategy to the next.

There is no strategy. It's just corporate speak most of it and total waffle from the club. We have played without a style or structure for around 3 or 4 years, there is no plan other than to just simply 'win matches' without a long term goal. We have no identity, no structure and it's unclear where we're heading. 

 

[maxjak]

Please all correct me if i am wrong?  Is our first team coach NOW Alex Ball who after making 1 first team appearance long ago, coached youth level at Southampton and City and had a spell at Bath City?  Surely in our current situation we need to bring in a quality coach to drill & organise a squad with no identity and no discernible consistent pattern of play.........and who are switched between 4-5-1  4-4-2 etc etc blah blah by a manager who seems not to know his best line up or formation?   A manager who rarely if ever actually coaches our first team squad, but spends his time motivating and inspiring the first team, while humiliating young players by inappropriately substituting them after half an hour?

Sorry to drone on, but i am frustrated and concerned about what is currently going on at the club we support..........and with little or no communication to the fans who support the team through thin and thin, I am phecked off

[Hampshire reds]

maxjak u are spot on with your post. well said. good on u. 

[maxjak]

17 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

How many coaches do we need?!

One good one?

[RiverRed]

16 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Like Joe, Mick and Paul in 1976, down that back alley in West London, ass they're about to rock the/our world. And they know it....

But without Topper they were always lacking.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It was a much worse appointment than Pulis. 

On paper Pulis had done a good job at Gillingham. It made sense to an extent. 

Holden was a terrible appointment that made absolutely no sense. But by far the worst thing about it was that Steve Lansdown had made two similar appointments previously (Tinnion and Millen) which were also failures. 

Completely inexcusable and as I've said previously, if Steve was an employee of the club making decisions like that, he'd have been fired a long, long time ago. 

Spot on.

I dislike Pulis intensely but his track record (then & since) pisses all over someone who was in charge of Oldham for 15 games once.

I would actually argue Millen was the only logical appointment of those 3, he had been here as assistant for ages, had done an excellent job as caretaker post GJ & when Coppell walked unexpectedly he steadied us.

Tinnion (never even been a coach) & Holden were shockers.

Edited October 28, 2021 by GrahamC

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Please all correct me if i am wrong?  Is our first team coach NOW Alex Ball who after making 1 first team appearance long ago, coached youth level at Southampton and City and had a spell at Bath City?  Surely in our current situation we need to bring in a quality coach to drill & organise a squad with no identity and no discernible consistent pattern of play.........and who are switched between 4-5-1  4-4-2 etc etc blah blah by a manager who seems not to know his best line up or formation?   A manager who rarely if ever actually coaches our first team squad, but spends his time motivating and inspiring the first team, while humiliating young players by inappropriately substituting them after half an hour?

Sorry to drone on, but i am frustrated and concerned about what is currently going on at the club we support..........and with little or no communication to the fans who support the team through thin and thin, I am phecked off

Maybe Ball is a quality coach? I have no idea but - regardless of his playing experience - he's been coaching for a long time. It might be that the reason he is being promoted - or at least being given a chance to work with the first team for now - is because Pearson and others at the club have seen that he has the attributes to drill and organise the squad.

I'd far rather we appointed someone with years of coaching experience than a "name" player in the hope that they can coach. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by LondonBristolian

[Hampshire reds]

Brian Clough said in a interview if you want to be a good manager you need to get the best people you can around you. Has or is Pearson going to do that. maybe he has them already.

[View from the Dolman]

16 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Please all correct me if i am wrong?  Is our first team coach NOW Alex Ball who after making 1 first team appearance long ago, coached youth level at Southampton and City and had a spell at Bath City?  Surely in our current situation we need to bring in a quality coach to drill & organise a squad with no identity and no discernible consistent pattern of play.........and who are switched between 4-5-1  4-4-2 etc etc blah blah by a manager who seems not to know his best line up or formation?   A manager who rarely if ever actually coaches our first team squad, but spends his time motivating and inspiring the first team, while humiliating young players by inappropriately substituting them after half an hour?

Sorry to drone on, but i am frustrated and concerned about what is currently going on at the club we support..........and with little or no communication to the fans who support the team through thin and thin, I am phecked off

You seem to be operating on the assumption that to be a good coach you need to have been a good player.

I saw this tweet from the former Aussie cricketer Jason Gillespie which sums up the naivety of that mindset.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by View from the Dolman

[maxjak]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

Maybe Ball is a quality coach? I have no idea but - regardless of his playing experience - he's been coaching for a long time. It might be that the reason he is being promoted - or at least being given a chance to work with the first team for now - is because Pearson and others at the club have seen that he has the attributes they need. 

Sorry not convinced.........i remember something similar being said about some bloke called Holden?     A quality coach with a solid experienced background of coaching quality footballers is needed, from outside the club, not more in house make doing, Alex might be a lovely bloke, but is CV is not exactly stupendous?              

[maxjak]

10 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

You seem to be operating on the assumption that to be a good coach you need to have been a good player.

I saw this tweet from the former Aussie cricketer Jason Gillespie which sums up the naivety of that mindset.

 

No far from it....... , Klopp, Mourinho etc prove that.  You have taken one aspect of my post out of context and given it priority.  To make it clear........I DO NOT think you need to be a good player, to be a good coach.  But neither do I believe someone who coached at Bath City and youth academies is the way to go?

Edited October 28, 2021 by maxjak

[Kid in the Riot]

14 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Spot on.

I dislike Pulis intensely but his track record (then & since) pisses all over someone who was in charge of Oldham for 15 games once.

I would actually argue Millen was the only logical appointment of those 3, he had been here as assistant for ages, had done an excellent job as caretaker post GJ & when Coppell walked unexpectedly he steadied us.

I don't think Millen was a logical appointment either, unfortunately. 

Clearly not a manager at Championship level, as his record since leaving us has borne out. That's the same for every single one of Lansdown's appointments though, arguably. 

None have gone onto better things as first team managers. Maybe McInnes....

[Waconda]

3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Steadying the ship?  At the moment we’re sinking like a stone.  If by ‘sorting a few things out’ you mean ‘halt our disastrous home run and get the team playing well and reversing our inevitable slide towards relegation’, then I’m completely with you!

NP gets a lot of leeway from fans, relying on past achievements and perceived  "no nonsense, sergeant major" approach perhaps.

Nearly every new manager inherits a "mess of unfit and useless" players but it is undeniable results have been horrendous since he came in .

Hopefully the overhaul on the coaching front helps and an upturn in performances and results is not far away.

Saturday will tell us a lot I believe.

[LondonBristolian]

11 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Sorry not convinced.........i remember something similar being said about some bloke called Holden?     A quality coach with a solid experienced background of coaching quality footballers is needed, from outside the club, not more in house make doing, Alex might be a lovely bloke, but is CV is not exactly stupendous?              

Holden had a long professional career but the issue wasn't that he was appointed as a coach but that he was appointed manager. With Holden, you're talking about someone appointed to a job they've never previously shown aptitude for. With Ball, you're talking about someone appointed to do the exact same job as they are already doing but at a higher profile. That's a completely different thing.

Personally 'm neither convinced nor unconvinced on Ball. How can I be when I know nothing about him as a coach? But I'm not going to start claiming someone with multiple years of experience as a coach who I have never personally seen coaching anyone is the wrong appointment just because he's come from inside the club rather than outside. 

[Waconda]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think Millen was a logical appointment either, unfortunately. 

Clearly not a manager at Championship level, as his record since leaving us has borne out. That's the same for every single one of Lansdown's appointments though, arguably. 

None have gone onto better things as first team managers. Maybe McInnes....

LJ ?