SL: Back him or Sack Him

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, Red white and red said:

That’s that then. 

Exactly. Glad you are on board

[Waconda]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I’m pretty sure he’ll back NP. But he couldn’t back him on top of how much he’d backed Johnson. It’ll come, but our cloth has to be cut accordingly. And NP has done a decent job of cutting so far. 

When we see the back of the likes of COD, Wells and Bakinson and Palmer (not that I think I’ve necessarily seen enough of the latter two) then there’ll be more room for manoeuvre. 

In League One.

We could get Matty Taylor back !

[Waconda]

2 hours ago, One Team said:

He’s already backed him by giving him a 3 year contract.

Yep and a decent squad of Championship players capable of achieving much more.

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think we are at the start of the players not buying into this anymore as well. 

Not the start, a fair way down the line.

[JoeAman08]

7 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Not the start, a fair way down the line.

Yep and it is worrying. Even more so when it seems SL is so bought in that NP is making lots of staff changes at the minute as well. Feel like making similar mistakes to the Ashton era. NP looks to have a lot of power. I do think he is clever and is assembling a much more competent staff than Ashton ever did but if he can’t get it right on the pitch, are we going to be left with a bunch of staff on new contracts and not wanted by the next guy? 

[IAmNick]

22 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Yep and a decent squad of Championship players capable of achieving much more.

Out of interest where do you think an average season for our current squad would have us finishing?

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Out of interest where do you think an average season for our current squad would have us finishing?

Depends on the manager and coaching but potentially on ability alone -  8th is my answer.

[Waconda]

16 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yep and it is worrying. Even more so when it seems SL is so bought in that NP is making lots of staff changes at the minute as well. Feel like making similar mistakes to the Ashton era. NP looks to have a lot of power. I do think he is clever and is assembling a much more competent staff than Ashton ever did but if he can’t get it right on the pitch, are we going to be left with a bunch of staff on new contracts and not wanted by the next guy? 

Doesn't mater who the manager is, his history or perceived power within a club, once he has "lost the dressing room" he is toast, just a matter of time.

 

[IAmNick]

22 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Depends on the manager and coaching but potentially on ability alone -  8th is my answer.

So good enough on ability for our joint best season in the last 14 years? Hmm.

Not convinced personally. Not even close. I'd say our squad is weaker now than the last few years, and we've only managed top 10 once since rejoining the Championship.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

So good enough on ability for our joint best season in the last 14 years? Hmm.

Not convinced personally. Not even close. I'd say our squad is weaker now than the last few years, and we've only managed top 10 once since rejoining the Championship.

I respect your opinion.

[Port Said Red]

14 hours ago, westonred said:

Dear Steve its time for you to come out and either back NP or sack him.

In January we need to bring in at least 5 championship quality players two strikers two wingers and a Tough tackling midfielder.

We could get rid of Martin, JD, Palmer, COD, Vyner and Simpson who offer us little to maybe help to fund the signings

If NP is not allowed to shape his own squad then you might as well sack him but to find a manager with his experience who would come to BS3 is unlikely so please Steve put your hand in your deep pockets

A bigger nightmare than Simpsons backpass. There isn't one correct word in your whole post. 

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

12 hours ago, S25loyal said:

Gave it a shot though didn’t they, it could of paid off. 

So you don’t mind us going potentially bust and having to start a phoenix club playing in the Westin counties league or something? 
 

As long as we give it a shot?

Edited October 24, 2021 by IdliketoRogerMoore

[JamesBCFC]

12 hours ago, S25loyal said:

Gave it a shot though didn’t they, it could of paid off. 

But it didn't and look where they are now. 

[steviestevieneville]

16 hours ago, westonred said:

Dear Steve its time for you to come out and either back NP or sack him.

In January we need to bring in at least 5 championship quality players two strikers two wingers and a Tough tackling midfielder.

We could get rid of Martin, JD, Palmer, COD, Vyner and Simpson who offer us little to maybe help to fund the signings

If NP is not allowed to shape his own squad then you might as well sack him but to find a manager with his experience who would come to BS3 is unlikely so please Steve put your hand in your deep pockets

Ffs

[Davefevs]

16 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I am not saying sack him because not sure who we could get or would want to come here. 
 

That said, I have decided NP isn’t the right manager for us imo. We don’t set up or play like modern championship clubs. I think we are at the start of the players not buying into this anymore as well.

Why aren’t we set up to play like modern Champ clubs?  The closet we got was 3-4 months in 17/18 when the gems of the Academy, SOD, Cotts and LJ (yes, I’m giving them all credit) gelled to form the makings of a good side, with predominantly young(ish) players with upside (you’re an American, you’ll like that term) and a few in their peak years (Flint, Pack).  You could almost call it the perfect coming together.

I honestly don’t think LJ really knew what he’d assembled, I think he stumbled on it….and then couldn’t recreate what he wasn’t aware he’d created!

Selling Flint, Reid and Bryan, generating £20m should’ve been the foundation to kick on, but he’d spent £12m in advance (Diedhiou, Baker, Eliasson, Walsh).  That is often forgotten.

For a lack of a better term, he is a dinosaur. Mick McCarthy, Chris Hughton and Nigel Pearson. Names from the past and successful in a different era of football.

Maybe, and why I think within his 3 year contract he will transition a younger manager into place and he’ll step away a bit.  What you don’t do is start the rebuild with a novice imho.
 

He inherited and absolute mess and it will be a mess for another season after this minimum imo. So a bit of sympathy there. That said we have watched Cooper go to Forest and turn it around quickly. We have seen Ismael go to West Brom and make them a juggernaut. Even managers like Robins at Coventry or Jones at Luton having extreme success. Maybe Forest are better off financially and West Brom sure. What about Luton and Coventry though? We are not getting all we can from this squad even as dour as it is. We have seen glimpses of quality and fight but why can’t we sustain it? Imo that is from the main man.

Not sure West Brom is a fair example, relegated team on PPs!

As for Cov and Luton, teams with low cost bases, able to take advantage during tough financial times whilst the overspenders (us) struggle to adapt.  They recruit well…and cheap.  They don’t need to sell.  We should’ve been that type of club.

We aren’t getting all we can from the squad….I agree.  But I think some of that is “paper ability”, and I suspect that there are 5/6 players under contract who wouldn’t be here had they been OOC in the summer.  Perversely, a player like Paterson might’ve been kept.

It’s really not nice looking at sides like Coventry and Luton and seeing them thrive.  In some ways I think they are an unfair comparison.  Birmingham, Ipswich (now Lg1), Preston, QPR, Brentford (now PL) are our closest comparators.  A right mixed bunch!

I am not expecting miracles but no home wins under the man and performances that are trending down are worrying signs. Not sure January is going to help much either with funds being what they are. So yea can’t really sack him and with him I worry about staying up.

trend is poor, but having played the top 3 in the last 6, I’ll wait for the next 4 to see where we really are (Cov, Brum, Barnsley, Blackburn) over those 10 games.  No win would be very worrying.
 

Also, so much for Dave Rennie too huh? Massengo muscle injury out basically a month. King muscle injury out for awhile. Williams muscle injury, fit for 3 games and muscle injury. Some saying Vyner injured. All clubs have injuries but still trending in a similar fashion.

One to keep an eye on.  Vyner was 19th man and involved in the warm up v AFCB last Saturday.
 

Comments above Joe

[S25loyal]

6 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

So you don’t mind us going potentially bust and having to start a phoenix club playing in the Westin counties league or something? 
 

As long as we give it a shot?

Not really no, I’d support city regardless of what division they are in. 

You come across like a glory hunter 

its better to be someone for a day, than a nobody for a lifetime.

Take Gretna for example, probably had the time of their lives and still have a club to support now.

We have had bar a few years at the start and the odd game, 99% of pure mediocrity. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by S25loyal

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Comments above Joe

Said in another thread just now. I am not against NP the organiser. I am just not sure he has the answers for the modern championship. Perhaps if stepped into a role of director of football and we signed a head coach. I’d be for that. 
 

We did have a perfect mix a few seasons ago. We don’t have that mix now but NP had a say in quite a few players playing for us yesterday. My problem is not our result yesterday or results in general. I feel like the performances are progressively getting worse. This on the back of an international break where we should be coming back stronger. Especially as we didn’t have many first team players abroad. 
 

As for Rennie, you can add Semenyo as well. We are missing or have missed probably 4-5 of our best 14 players for a month or more already. This doesn’t help for consistency. 

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

46 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

Not really no, I’d support city regardless of what division they are in. 

You come across like a glory hunter 

its better to be someone for a day, than a nobody for a lifetime.

Take Gretna for example, probably had the time of their lives and still have a club to support now.

We have had bar a few years at the start and the odd game, 99% of pure mediocrity. 

You’re the one advocating breaking FFP like Wednesday and Derby so we can make it to the Premier league! I’d rather build an sustainable based and grow steadily towards!  

[S25loyal]

6 minutes ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

You’re the one advocating breaking FFP like Wednesday and Derby so we can make it to the Premier league! I’d rather build an sustainable based and grow steadily towards!  

Sustainable, have you see the losses we have? The losses every club have?

Break FFP such as , QPR, Bournemouth etc. 

Bournemouth, a team that basically ripped us apart recently, a team many would had classed as tinpot compared to us, one we used to easily take 40% of the crowd to. A team that has simply walked past us like so many others.

Im glad our sustainable method has only taken 30+ years to get top flight football. 

At this rate I might see it before retirement 

Edited October 24, 2021 by S25loyal

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

Just now, S25loyal said:

Sustainable, have you see the losses we have? The losses every club have?

Break FFP such as , QPR, Bournemouth etc. 

Im glad our sustainable method has only taken 30+ years to get top flight football. 

At this rate I might see it before retirement 

Exactly you want us to chuck even more money at it with no guarantee of success, you’ve named 2 clubs who gambled and got lucky, what about the countless others who aren’t so lucky?

[S25loyal]

1 minute ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

Exactly you want us to chuck even more money at it with no guarantee of success, you’ve named 2 clubs who gambled and got lucky, what about the countless others who aren’t so lucky?

How many haven’t been so lucky? 

Bury? The list is pretty short really

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

2 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

How many haven’t been so lucky? 

Bury? The list is pretty short really

Portsmouth, Bolton, Wigan and notts County? For starters Cardiff got problems forest had them too? 

[S25loyal]

3 minutes ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

Portsmouth, Bolton, Wigan and notts County? For starters Cardiff got problems forest had them too? 

Wigan , Portsmouth, Bolton, Cardiff, 

All Clubs who have had much much better recent history than us the last 20 years. 

Ill give notts county although their admin was years ago. 

Forest have been failures really for years much like us

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

1 minute ago, S25loyal said:

Wigan , Portsmouth, Bolton, Cardiff, 

All Clubs who have had much much better recent history than us the last 20 years. 

Ill give notts county although their admin was years ago. 

Forest have been failures really for years much like us

So you’re saying because they’ve had better recent histories it’s ok they’ve almost bust?

[robin_unreliant]

2 minutes ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

So you’re saying because they’ve had better recent histories it’s ok they’ve almost bust?

Fact is, even trying to stick to the rules, without SL we actually would be bust now. 

[S25loyal]

8 minutes ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

So you’re saying because they’ve had better recent histories it’s ok they’ve almost bust?

I’m pretty sure the majority of fans would take their recent history over ours, even with their money issues. Most of those clubs are not too far off us, and everyone of them still have a club to support.

6 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Fact is, even trying to stick to the rules, without SL we actually would be bust now. 

We wouldn’t though would we.

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Fact is, even trying to stick to the rules, without SL we actually would be bust now. 

If we'd still paid out what SL has paid out (ie what he was paying Ashton, and buying yer Kasey Palmers and yer Gustav Dionies, oh, and yer David Jameseses, for example), then, yes. We'd be bust.

[Wiltshire robin]

16 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Fact is, even trying to stick to the rules, without SL we actually would be bust now. 

That points completely invalid though, we could have got owners like Swansea , Huddersfield ,Brighton ,Brentford and Cardiff. All of which probably have had less investment in them than us.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

20 hours ago, Redwood Robin said:

What would be the point of sacking an experienced manager with proven success, who else would actually make a difference?

All experienced managers with proven success pass their sell-by dates at some stage.  Clearly Cardiff City felt that Mick McCarthy had passed his, even though his record last season was outstanding.  Pearson, on the other hand, had a dreadful start and his team have only shown limited improvement this season.  The question is at what point you decide that change is needed to avoid the unthinkable relegation.  I believe we have a squad that can stay up, but someone needs to get the best out of them and Pearson sure as hell isn’t at the moment.  If we pick up fewer than four points against Barnsley, Birmingham and Coventry, for instance, do we still do nothing?  Will someone please tell me what Pearson is actually doing at the moment that instils such faith in people?

[maxjak]

On 23/10/2021 at 18:02, westonred said:

Dear Steve its time for you to come out and either back NP or sack him.

In January we need to bring in at least 5 championship quality players two strikers two wingers and a Tough tackling midfielder.

We could get rid of Martin, JD, Palmer, COD, Vyner and Simpson who offer us little to maybe help to fund the signings

If NP is not allowed to shape his own squad then you might as well sack him but to find a manager with his experience who would come to BS3 is unlikely so please Steve put your hand in your deep pockets

Yet more knee jerk drivel.........get a grip FFS?