Towler

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Some mention of him still suffering from the effects of covid. His body language when he does come on is quite timid and passive. Whether it's a confidence, or physical thing is up for debate.

Certainly not the player we saw in the first few months of the season anyhow.

If it’s not Covid, the other possible reason is he’s having that “drop-off” that often happens with young players, players who’ve not played at this level before.  He played a lot of minutes early season, and he will hopefully come back to form again.

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

If it’s not Covid, the other possible reason is he’s having that “drop-off” that often happens with young players, players who’ve not played at this level before.  He played a lot of minutes early season, and he will hopefully come back to form again.

Yep, not looking for a conspiracy on this; but when he comes on at the moment, his body language looks like someone shorn of confidence.

Physically for me, he still loses far too many battles; and seems to be bullied on the field.

There is a player there though, and one that can hopefully still develop. Tough ask to be playing Championship in a struggling team after playing league football for only 2 years. It's a massive step up from L1.

You only have to see how Hull, and Peterborough have struggled this season, after smashing it in L1 last year.

[Harry]

Some rather harsh opinions of Towler on here! 
Some people saying “he wasn’t even playing for Grimsby”. 
He’d played 90 minutes in 13 out of 15 matches, winning 7 and drawing 1 of those 13, contributing 4 clean sheets. 
All of a sudden, Hirst dropped him from the squad in mid-December. I understand that the reason for this was because he’d been made aware that City would be recalling him and so he chose to focus on players who were going to be remaining there. 
So he wasn’t dropped because he wasn’t good enough. Ask any Grimsby fan and they’ll tell you he did a great job for them. 
 

Regarding his performance yesterday, I thought he started well and was settling into the game good. Was getting plenty of early touches and was using the ball well, and made a couple of good challenges too. 
 

He basically made 3 errors. Once when Afobe span off him and made a run toward goal. Another for the first goal where he got caught by the run of Bradshaw and the other for the penalty where again he got caught by Afobe’s spin and run. 
On each of these 3 errors, the mistake was the same - he was caught square-on, rather than being on the half-turn. It’s an error many CB’s make. Ryley is 19 and was up against 2 players with very good movement for this level of football. 
 

Plus, I’d also mitigate the errors on the 2 goals. The first was simply an incredible cross and something that is very hard to defend. But let’s look at how easy it was for millwall to get the ball into the wide area to make an unchallenged cross. Too easy for them to move the ball around our midfield. 
 

The penalty, again have a look at the midfield. Any time a player is allowed to have a free run straight through the centre of the park, you are gonna make life hard for a centre back who is one on one with a quick striker. Quite simply, it’s what is termed as “leaving the defence exposed”. 

Overall, 3 errors. 2 were high profile. Of which one was hard to defend the other he was totally exposed. Those errors aside, he was doing ok. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Harry

[Ska Junkie]

I think a lot depends how he handles this now, he was clearly out of his depth yesterday and, as mentioned above, would probably benefit from a L1 loan.

The poor lads confidence must be in tatters after that, I do feel for the lad.

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, Harry said:

Some rather harsh opinions of Towler on here!

agree
Some people saying “he wasn’t even playing for Grimsby”. 
He’d played 90 minutes in 13 out of 15 matches, winning 7 and drawing 1 of those 13, contributing 4 clean sheets.
All of a sudden, Hirst dropped him from the squad in mid-December. I understand that the reason for this was because he’d been made aware that City would be recalling him and so he chose to focus on players who were going to be remaining there.

I wasn’t aware of that and that makes a lot of sense, because he was getting good praise from Hurst, albeit they had started a poor run.
So he wasn’t dropped because he wasn’t good enough. Ask any Grimsby fan and they’ll tell you he did a great job for them. 
 

Regarding his performance yesterday, I thought he started well and was settling into the game good. Was getting plenty of early touches and was using the ball well, and made a couple of good challenges too.

yep, got tight to force poor touches when Millwall tried to play into feet just inside our half.  A nice little pic below too of his passing map.  Remember this is just 45 minutes worth!
 

He basically made 3 errors. Once when Afobe span off him and made a run toward goal. Another for the first goal where he got caught by the run of Bradshaw and the other for the penalty where again he got caught by Afobe’s spin and run. 
On each of these 3 errors, the mistake was the same - he was caught square-on, rather than being on the half-turn. It’s an error many CB’s make. Ryley is 19 and was up against 2 players with very good movement for this level of football.

I note Kalas often looks over his wrong shoulder too!  I might argue the errors were much earlier….a poor volley mass from James, and poor pass from Kalas into a congested midfield, but I know that’s not the point you are trying to make here.
 

Plus, I’d also mitigate the errors on the 2 goals. The first was simply an incredible cross and something that is very hard to defend. But let’s look at how easy it was for millwall to get the ball into the wide area to make an unchallenged cross. Too easy for them to move the ball around our midfield. 
 

The penalty, again have a look at the midfield. Any time a player is allowed to have a free run straight through the centre of the park, you are gonna make life hard for a centre back who is one on one with a quick striker. Quite simply, it’s what term as “leaving the defence exposed”. 

Overall, 3 errors. 2 were high profile. Of which one was hard to defend the other he was totally exposed. Those errors aside, he was doing ok. 

The harsh reality of Championship football, but you sum it up well Harr.  Other comments above

[Harry]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The harsh reality of Championship football, but you sum it up well Harr.  Other comments above

100% agree on the ‘other errors’ for the goals too. 
First one, James had lost the ball and went chasing it high up the pitch, getting our midfield out of shape and allowing them the time to easily progress the ball to a wide 1-1 crossing position. 
The second, Kalas gave it away, James was again too high, and Towler was left one on one as they ran directly through the middle. 

[grifty]

I thought Towler looked very good in possession of the ball, much more so than say Baker, but obviously his positional play and decision making was poor yesterday, but those two things improve with experience.

Regards to Atkinson, I don't see him as being aggressive enough. When he goes up for a header it's almost like he lets the ball fall on to his head rather than attacking it meaning he doesn't get much distance on any clearance.

[East Londoner]

Am i right in thinking because he played yesterday and has obviously played for Grimsby this season he can’t now go out on loan? Other than back to Grimsby of course 

Edited January 3, 2022 by East Londoner

[Lanterne Rouge]

15 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

Am i right in thinking because he played yesterday and has obviously played for Grimsby this season he can’t now go out on loan? Other than back to Grimsby of course 

I don`t think the rule applies if it`s a non-league club. Could easily be wrong though!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I think people are being very charitable about Towler.  No one likes to see a young player have a ‘mare.  Sadly that’s the second time he’s been chucked in and looked out of his depth, the first contributing to Holden’s dismissal after the defeat to Watford.  Can’t say that he looks physically built to be a centre back…

[The Bard]

29 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think people are being very charitable about Towler.  No one likes to see a young player have a ‘mare.  Sadly that’s the second time he’s been chucked in and looked out of his depth, the first contributing to Holden’s dismissal after the defeat to Watford.  Can’t say that he looks physically built to be a centre back…

He's 19 and about 6 foot 3. People do fill out.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

He's 19 and about 6 foot 3. People do fill out.

6’2” ones certainly do

[Red-Robbo]

54 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think people are being very charitable about Towler.  No one likes to see a young player have a ‘mare.  Sadly that’s the second time he’s been chucked in and looked out of his depth, the first contributing to Holden’s dismissal after the defeat to Watford.  Can’t say that he looks physically built to be a centre back…

 

I found it bizarre to the say the least that he was chucked in having not played a competitive match for almost 5 weeks (and then at Conference level).  His fourth Championship game in two seasons, and the third one he's been subbed off at half-time. A big, physical Millwall side was always going to be a struggle for the lad who, to be honest, needs another loan as he isn't quite ready for Championship football IMO

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I found it bizarre to the say the least that he was chucked in having not played a competitive match for almost 5 weeks (and then at Conference level).  His fourth Championship game in two seasons, and the third one he's been subbed off at half-time. A big, physical Millwall side was always going to be a struggle for the lad who, to be honest, needs another loan as he isn't quite ready for Championship football IMO

 

Captain Hindsight here….he might’ve been better playing LCB in a three (Vyner, Kalas, Towler), but doubling up on the hindsight if we were gonna play a three, Pring could’ve started there.  Would be nice to know what exactly informed the decision.

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I found it bizarre to the say the least that he was chucked in having not played a competitive match for almost 5 weeks (and then at Conference level).  His fourth Championship game in two seasons, and the third one he's been subbed off at half-time. A big, physical Millwall side was always going to be a struggle for the lad who, to be honest, needs another loan as he isn't quite ready for Championship football IMO

 

Big. Millwall? 
Quite the opposite challenge for Towler. 
The 3 forwards were 5’10, 5’10 and 6’ Afobe. 
The challenge Towler would have was more about pace and movement than it was about being “big & physical”. 
In that sense, there is an argument that Towler’s increased mobility versus Atkinson (who is slow on the turn) might have suited. 

[Rob k]

27 minutes ago, Harry said:

Big. Millwall? 
Quite the opposite challenge for Towler. 
The 3 forwards were 5’10, 5’10 and 6’ Afobe. 
The challenge Towler would have was more about pace and movement than it was about being “big & physical”. 
In that sense, there is an argument that Towler’s increased mobility versus Atkinson (who is slow on the turn) might have suited. 

And let’s be honest - if it wasn’t for injuries Afobe wouldn’t be at Milwall, he’s a decent player at this level 

[RobintheRed Red]

On 02/01/2022 at 23:08, TomThumb84 said:

I worry for the lad.

Mad he is playing Championship football to be honest.

I will defend a Bristol lad to the hilt but Towler is way off.

The Watford (a) shambles last year was a hard watch and the fact he is near the first  team says more about the club than him.

Needs managing carefully.

Certainly not physical enough for centre back at Championship level.

[REDOXO]

I thought he did well. The fact he was the one that brought down Afobi had more to do with what went on in front of him. The boy is that and is very decent in a team that started with seven academy graduates. 
 

We adjusted at half time and that paid dividends.
 

The propensity of supporters of this club to criticize some players while letting others off Scot free as they are the current chosen ones is amazing. 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Big. Millwall? 
Quite the opposite challenge for Towler. 
The 3 forwards were 5’10, 5’10 and 6’ Afobe. 
The challenge Towler would have was more about pace and movement than it was about being “big & physical”. 
In that sense, there is an argument that Towler’s increased mobility versus Atkinson (who is slow on the turn) might have suited. 

 

Physical build, not just height. 

As with Scott and Benarous, I don't think Towler had enough muscle to not be bullied off the ball by a team who are renowned as a highly physical side. 

Ultimately, unless Atkinson was really unwell (in which case why was he on the bench?) Pearson's first 45 minute experiment failed.  

 

[A Horse With No Name]

I know this is a Towler thread, but its a tad unfair he is getting all the negative comments about not being ready, but is the same criticism being chucked at Benarous , because I absolutely dont see anything there to suggest he is even close to being ready.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

I know this is a Towler thread, but its a tad unfair he is getting all the negative comments about not being ready, but is the same criticism being chucked at Benarous , because I absolutely dont see anything there to suggest he is even close to being ready.

Yet the all-knowing Ian Gay, critical of his selection on Saturday, was a big advocate of him playing last season?  He’s 6’2” and likes a tackle.  So why was he happy last season to select a less experienced, less physically developed player but not now?

[GlastonburyRed]

25 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

I know this is a Towler thread, but its a tad unfair he is getting all the negative comments about not being ready, but is the same criticism being chucked at Benarous , because I absolutely dont see anything there to suggest he is even close to being ready.

I think, the further back in the team you are, the more likely you are to be exposed in that any mistakes will more likely lead to a goal. Perhaps why people will talk more about Towler, Max, etc...

[NcnsBcfc]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yet the all-knowing Ian Gay, critical of his selection on Saturday, was a big advocate of him playing last season?  He’s 6’2” and likes a tackle.  So why was he happy last season to select a less experienced, less physically developed player but not now?

I wonder if Towler hadn't got a yellow card, whether Pearson would have been as quick to make the change at Half time?

Ultimately the Championship is an unforgiving league, and young players will make mistakes. The only way they are going to learn, and improve though is being given the opportunities. It's a hugely difficult balancing act in Championship, where the margins between victory and defeat are so narrow.

Sometimes it'll work, sometimes it won't. But I applaud NP for at least giving young players the opportunities. The endless days of sending out young players on loan, and holding on to them until they're 23 or 24 are hopefully over.

If the coach thinks they're good enough, and they show the right application in training; then give them the chance. That's all young players want at the end of the day, the opportunity to be a part of the team. What is the incentive for them to improve, if they feel that whatever they do, they won't be given a chance.

As Pring as said, all those years on the fringes; not feeling part of the team. We now seem to have a feel of a first team squad, and if you're "Not of the bus"; then you're gone.

My eldest son is now 16. Although he's still playing Junior football. He's now playing in Senior men's in the Somerset District League as well. He's a centre back; and although 6ft 2, the physicality; and speed of the game will take him some time to adjust. 

He will make mistakes, and he'll have to learn from them; and hopefully come back wiser, and stronger.

I'm sure Towler will get the necessary advice based on his performance on Sunday, and hopefully come back stronger for it.

Edited January 4, 2022 by NcnsBcfc

[HappyClapper]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yet the all-knowing Ian Gay, critical of his selection on Saturday, was a big advocate of him playing last season?  He’s 6’2” and likes a tackle.  So why was he happy last season to select a less experienced, less physically developed player but not now?

Is this a quiz?

My answer is because Ian Gay is a bit of a *#*#!

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, The Horse With No Name said:

I know this is a Towler thread, but its a tad unfair he is getting all the negative comments about not being ready, but is the same criticism being chucked at Benarous , because I absolutely dont see anything there to suggest he is even close to being ready.

 

Although he made little impact on Sunday, Benarous has had some very good games for City. I'm afraid I can't say the same for Towler.  Four Championship starts with three half-time subbings tells its own story.

Yes, you are more exposed as a defender. I've always said don't just look at the last man charged with intercepting an attacker, look at the player further upfield who gave away the ball in the first place and the midfielders who failed to stop the attack reaching our final third. 

That said, it feels like some of those rushing to Towler's defence on this thread are doing so because they feel sorry for him. 

It does seem extraordinary he started the game after 5 weeks with no football. Atkinson can't have been injured or he wouldn't be on the bench. As the second half showed, there was the option there to play a back three.

[Rob k]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yet the all-knowing Ian Gay, critical of his selection on Saturday, was a big advocate of him playing last season?  He’s 6’2” and likes a tackle.  So why was he happy last season to select a less experienced, less physically developed player but not now?

Because he doesn’t like NP so it’s a stick to try and beat him with 

[2015]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yet the all-knowing Ian Gay, critical of his selection on Saturday, was a big advocate of him playing last season?  He’s 6’2” and likes a tackle.  So why was he happy last season to select a less experienced, less physically developed player but not now?

The problem is, calling for academy players to be playing is all well and good, if they are actually ready for it. I haven't seen anything that suggests Towler is, he's certainly a unit, but he's years away from being good enough at this level. 
I remember last season calls for him to be playing on said podcast when we were short at LB and days later Watford thump us 6-0. I'd much rather play an experienced player out of position than a player who really isn't good enough for the level currently as it is more likely to cause us issues, which it has.

[Numero Uno]

18 minutes ago, 2015 said:

The problem is, calling for academy players to be playing is all well and good, if they are actually ready for it. I haven't seen anything that suggests Towler is, he's certainly a unit, but he's years away from being good enough at this level. 
I remember last season calls for him to be playing on said podcast when we were short at LB and days later Watford thump us 6-0. I'd much rather play an experienced player out of position than a player who really isn't good enough for the level currently as it is more likely to cause us issues, which it has.

Think that's a harsh call tbh. Did you think that Alex Scott was YEARS AWAY when Pearson dragged him off after 25 minutes of one game earlier in the season?

[2015]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Think that's a harsh call tbh. Did you think that Alex Scott was YEARS AWAY when Pearson dragged him off after 25 minutes of one game earlier in the season?

No.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yet the all-knowing Ian Gay, critical of his selection on Saturday, was a big advocate of him playing last season?  He’s 6’2” and likes a tackle.  So why was he happy last season to select a less experienced, less physically developed player but not now?

What he does is think of ideas that seem to make sense and differ from what the Manager is currently doing and then make them vague enough so that when his view turns out to be complete and utter bollocks he can counter with "I didn't suggest that".

As we all know the issue with youngsters who have the ability is that one week they are a world beater the next a panel beater. You get the odd special talent that quickly overcomes the inconsistency phase and starts to look a cut above........we all know who that is. It's been that way since the beginning of time. You also get the odd kid who totally rips up the rule book like Rooney who was doing it in the Prem at just 16 and people use the likes of him to mistakenly think "if you're good enough you're old enough" without realising what a monster of a kid you really have to be to do it at that level at that age.