Josh Cavallo - Gay

[Port Said Red]

16 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Agreed

At my work place it’s more of a Generational thing as all the homophobic people tend to be 50s and over (not saying everyone over 50 is homophobic)

Everyone else who is younger at my work just thinks of being gay as normal and not even worth batting an eyelid .

Perhaps it is the type of workplace? My early working career was in labouring type work and I guess peer pressure meant that I joined in with the gags and the inferences that one did in those days. When I started working in the casino industry being openly gay was the norm and it changed my perspective completely. It became obvious very quickly that someones sexuality had little to do with whether I enjoyed their company, anymore than if they were of a different race or colour. I either liked them, disliked them or tolerated them on their personality and I really dislike it when people say, "ah well, you know what those people are like because everyone has their individual traits.

[Roger Red Hat]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

But given he’s the first pro footballer to come out as gay

Is he?

[nebristolred]

Top man, fair play to him. It shouldn't matter but it does, so I hope he gets all the support he can.

All I'll say is that the reason that more people don't come out as gay is largely down to us. We're the blokes, we're the ones who either intentionally or unintentionally sometimes create this situation where people cannot be the people they want to be. Hopefully we can help create the environment where more footballers can be themselves openly without fear of criticism.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

22 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Do we really need to know about anyone's sexual, religious, food, ethnicity, etc preferences? 

As long as they do their job to the best of their ability, obey laws ofthe country, be a decent person in relation to others, why do we need this information.

This is not a question of ‘sexual preference’, this is about sexual orientation, about who someone is.  You do not necessarily need this information, but the player has decided that it is intolerable for him to carry on without being true to himself, so he has made this announcement.  It is for his benefit, not yours.

Would you think it right that someone could not admit to being Jewish, say, for fear of persecution?

[JamesBCFC]

Wasn't Justin Fashanu the first to 'come out' while playing?

Regardless, fair play to Josh Cavallo.

Hopefully we can one day get to a point where players are able to feel comfortable in football without the need to publicly 'come out', but unfortunately society isn't at that point yet.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Wasn't Justin Fashanu the first to 'come out' while playing?

Regardless, fair play to Josh Cavallo.

Hopefully we can one day get to a point where players are able to feel comfortable in football without the need to publicly 'come out', but unfortunately society isn't at that point yet.

While society assumes that everyone is straight until told otherwise, coming out is always going to be a fact of life for many people.

[SydneyCity]

58 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/08/almost-all-australian-lgbtq-high-school-students-hear-homophobic-language-at-school-study-finds
 

From that, it seems that there is a lot of hang up In Oz on sexuality

 

I'll revert back to the start and end of my post:

"Broadly speaking" and…

"That's not to say Australian's are perfect, or to deny any hostility exists, they just don't get as hung up on sexuality as most other nationalities."

I'm definitely not saying homophobia doesn't exist in Australia, of course it does.

I guess at least part of my point was a gay footballer doesn't really register over here because homosexuality isn't considered news worthy and neither is "soccer".

Some of Australia's most successful Olympians have been openly gay for years as have a large number of other prominent athletes… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_sportspeople_from_Australia.

In sporting terms, being more prominent than "local soccer player" isn't hard and "Gay sportsman (or woman)" just doesn't as resonate as much as a headline over here as it may do elsewhere.

For me the main take out of my ramblings are Australians should care more about local football.

 

[JamesBCFC]

23 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

While society assumes that everyone is straight until told otherwise, coming out is always going to be a fact of life for many people.

The assumption isn't necessarily an unreasonable one as the vast majority of people are straight, so long as the person is treated the same regardless.

Think a little cross purposes here. I support Josh Cavallo coming out, and hopefully he also gets the support needed because sadly there will be a minority of people who will use it to abuse him. But hoping that one day we can get to a point where it isn't needed for people, particularly those in a public to have to make a big statement, but are able to feel comfortable living their life as who they are anyway.

I havent articulated what I'm meaning very well though. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by JamesBCFC

[Oh Louie louie]

Yes justin was the first i recall.

Was front page news.

Good doc on it.

[And Its Smith]

19 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

While society assumes that everyone is straight until told otherwise, coming out is always going to be a fact of life for many people.

I agree and language is very important. I cringe if I hear parents say to their sons if they have any girlfriends at school. Just ask if they have any girlfriends or boyfriends. Make it completely equal.  

[Port Said Red]

27 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

While society assumes that everyone is straight until told otherwise, coming out is always going to be a fact of life for many people.

It doesn't seem to work like that in womens sport though. It seems to me that the immediate assumption is that woman who take up sport are gay and that they almost have to "come out" as straight. 

[Bernard Lerring]

I read the thread title and assumed it was a double barrelled surname... thought we'd signed the son of that bloke who phones into radio Bristol!

[East Londoner]

Good for him, I’ve never understood how who someone loves or is attracted to makes any difference to anybody apart from them. I see lots of high profile players and clubs have reached out to him offering solidarity and congratulations which is both nice to see and also a little sad that it’s still necessary in this day and age and is a reminder that taking the knee is taking a stand against any form of discrimination rather than as a separate political statement 

But now it’s out in the open what I’m more interested in is, is he any good although we seem fairly well stocked for left backs at the moment 

 

[HitchinRed]

I’m really not sure whether this thread:

a) reassures gays that they can talk about their sexuality openly, or

b) dissuades gays from ‘coming out’ because they’ll know it’ll become the topic of conversation.

I’m from the viewpoint, that a person’s sexuality really doesn’t matter, and shouldn’t be a talking point. The fact this has become the subject of a thread is disappointing.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, HitchinRed said:

I’m really not sure whether this thread:

a) reassures gays that they can talk about their sexuality openly, or

b) dissuades gays from ‘coming out’ because they’ll know it’ll become the topic of conversation.

I’m from the viewpoint, that a person’s sexuality really doesn’t matter, and shouldn’t be a talking point. The fact this has become the subject of a thread is disappointing.

Exactly and its sad that in 2021 its brave. 

[richwwtk]

4 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Yes justin was the first i recall.

Was front page news.

Good doc on it.

Justin Fashanu didn't come out until he had retired so far as I know.

edit - apologies, it seems he came out just at the end of his career in this country.

Edited October 27, 2021 by richwwtk

[mozo]

2 hours ago, HitchinRed said:

I’m really not sure whether this thread:

a) reassures gays that they can talk about their sexuality openly, or

b) dissuades gays from ‘coming out’ because they’ll know it’ll become the topic of conversation.

I’m from the viewpoint, that a person’s sexuality really doesn’t matter, and shouldn’t be a talking point. The fact this has become the subject of a thread is disappointing.

We need to transition from taboo to normalisation and that will take some people being the pioneers in the public eye unfortunately. I can perfectly understand why they wouldn't want to though.

[alexukhc]

Good on him, not that it matters it’s up-to him if he chooses, just like those who boo when we take the knee you either support your team/ it’s players or you don’t.. some people are gay, oh well 

[archie andrews]

5 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Is he?

Cant be.... Theres one on coronation Street.... 

[LoyalRed]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Good. The way it should be.  

Unfortunately homophobia is still out there and there are plenty of people that don’t see homosexuality as ‘normal’.  The more people in the public eye that are ‘out’ the better. Especially if breaking new ground aka professional football 

 

Not sure I agree with this, there’s no reason to come out to state your gay unless...

1- The player is being victimised by fans who want to know why he isn’t married, why doesn’t he have kids

2- Publicity  

[PHILINFRANCE]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Does the term “come out” really help here?  Seems a crass, outdated term.

I agree, and I have thought this for quite some time.

It seems to me that it is almost like saying:

'Hi Guys,  I have a confession to make.

I am sorry to have to admit that I am gay'.

It just seems so negative for something that should just be accepted, embraced even.

Some of us from an older generation will recall slurs being made about mixed raced relationships - I know it's not the same subject - but (thankfully) when one of my daughters tells me she has a new boyfriend my only concern is that she is happy (and safe).

 

 

 

[And Its Smith]

28 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Not sure I agree with this, there’s no reason to come out to state your gay unless...

1- The player is being victimised by fans who want to know why he isn’t married, why doesn’t he have kids

2- Publicity  

You clearly don’t get it then.  The reasons have been explained on this thread and have been explained on numerous other threads. If you read any article from homosexual people you will read similar. Gay people saying this is important aren’t lying. 

[Bannerman]

1 minute ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I agree, and I have thought this for quite some time.

It seems to me that it is almost like saying:

'Hi Guys,  I have a confession to make.

I am sorry to have to admit that I am gay'.

It just seems so negative for something that should just be accepted, embraced even.

Some of us from an older generation will recall slurs being made about mixed raced relationships - I know it's not the same subject - but (thankfully) when one of my daughters tells me she has a new boyfriend my only concern is that she is happy (and safe).

 

 

 

And would you be concerned if I share the same bath, shower room with your daughter within the  sports field?

I agree ‘coming out’ is rather dated and I don’t care what sexuality you are but I would not like to share the same bath, showroom, otherwise where is my choice?

[PHILINFRANCE]

10 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

And would you be concerned if I share the same bath, shower room with your daughter within the  sports field?

I agree ‘coming out’ is rather dated and I don’t care what sexuality you are but I would not like to share the same bath, showroom, otherwise where is my choice?

I am sorry. I don't think we have ever met, so I have no idea whether you are male or female - are we still allowed to say/ask that?

On the assumption (based on your user name) that you are male (or perhaps a Blue Mink fan), then I would most certainly be concerned, to the extent that I would most likely chase you out with a good beating.

Should you be female, however, and of a similar age and peer group, then I would have no qualms - I played football in Bristol for many years and shared many showers, even baths, with my (male) teammates, and I can assure you that their sexual persuasion never once crossed my mind.

[The Constant Rabbit]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/08/almost-all-australian-lgbtq-high-school-students-hear-homophobic-language-at-school-study-finds
 

From that, it seems that there is a lot of hang up In Oz on sexuality

 

That's a sample of children. By Uni under-grads. In The Guardian.

Kids say things they don't understand.

Australia is incredibly gay-friendly. 

My son is gay and has had zero issues socially or at work.

 

I live here.   Sydney Red does too.

 

I can assure you that you would be pleasantly surprised should you ever venture to Australia.

 

I'll give you 10/10 for spending the time to go searching for an argument though. 

 

 

[The Constant Rabbit]

Did everyone forget Tanya?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanya_Oxtoby

[Bannerman]

3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I am sorry. I don't think we have ever met, so I have no idea whether you are male or female - are we still allowed to say/ask that?

On the assumption (based on your user name) that you are male (or perhaps a Blue Mink fan), then I would most certainly be concerned, to the extent that I would most likely chase you out with a good beating.

Should you be female, however, and of a similar age and peer group, then I would have no qualms - I played football in Bristol for many years and shared many showers, even baths, with my (male) teammates, and I can assure you that their sexual persuasion never once crossed my mind.

Immature reply has missed the point.

Bannerman is a Scottish family name and therefore suits all sexualities.

And as for my sexuality is a contradiction to your reply.

 

[And Its Smith]

19 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

That's a sample of children. By Uni under-grads. In The Guardian.

Kids say things they don't understand.

Australia is incredibly gay-friendly. 

My son is gay and has had zero issues socially or at work.

 

I live here.   Sydney Red does too.

 

I can assure you that you would be pleasantly surprised should you ever venture to Australia.

 

I'll give you 10/10 for spending the time to go searching for an argument though. 

 

 

Not looking for an argument. It’s called a different point of view. 6 out of 10 people in Australia suffer homophobic abuse. 20% have suffered physical abuse. 40% of Australian workers hide their sexuality at work. Things are slowly getting better everywhere, including in Australia but I would say it’s far from gay friendly .  Very happy to hear that your son has had no issues though, obviously 

Edited October 27, 2021 by And Its Smith

[Super]

7 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Perhaps it is the type of workplace? My early working career was in labouring type work and I guess peer pressure meant that I joined in with the gags and the inferences that one did in those days. When I started working in the casino industry being openly gay was the norm and it changed my perspective completely. It became obvious very quickly that someones sexuality had little to do with whether I enjoyed their company, anymore than if they were of a different race or colour. I either liked them, disliked them or tolerated them on their personality and I really dislike it when people say, "ah well, you know what those people are like because everyone has their individual traits.

Def construction industry is the worst for this kind of stuff.

[fgrsimon]

8 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said:

The sad thing is it’s the same in the uk.

Theres a gay guy where I work and even the directors take the piss behind his back. 
 

 

Your company might have a whistleblowing service for that sort of thing. It's totally unacceptable, even more so at director level. Even worse if they're not bothered about others overhearing.