Downsy

[The Bard]

16 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

First off, what Downsy has done is inappropriate. It is inappropriate for a member of staff/representative of the club to be or appear to be sexualising other employees. Absolutely no doubt on that.

However I completely disagree that him doing this is identical to if a male member of staff did it to female athletes/sportswomen. There are two key differences.

1) Generally speaking, male athletes/sportsmen tend to be talked about in the media and on social media in terms of their ability and merit whereas there is a long history of female athletes in the media or social media being talked about primarily in terms of their attractiveness with their sporting ability being ignored or trivialised. Yes, Downsy is objectifying male athletes but he isn't contributing to a continual narrative of sportswomen's achievements being trivialised or ignored in the way that people are when they objectify women.

2) As we've seen in US Gymnastics, US Football and in aspects of the women's game here, there is a long and unfortunate history of female athletes being exploited or abused by male coaches or other employees. A female footballer who is leered at (in person or on social media) by a male employee has utterly reasonable grounds to fear for her own safety as that male employee may well be bigger than her and able to physically assault her if she is alone with them. The rugby players may find Downsy's comments uncomfortable or inappropriate - and should of course complain if they do so - but is unlikely any of them will physically fear Downsy, which a sportswoman might reasonably do.

I absolutely agree someone should remind Downsy of the expectations for a member of staff and, if a member of the rugby team chose to complain, that should be taken seriously. But I think drawing a direct equivalence to lewd comments made about women ignores both the actual level of physical danger women may feel when drooled over by men and also the historical exploitation and oppression that plays into. Neither are right but nor are they equivalent. 

Very well put.

One thing I would add is that to me this is a classic double standard.

Just because in this case the male on male objectification Carry's less threat than the Male on female objectification you describe doesn't mean it is acceptable. It isn't.  

Do straight female employees or women who work in Rugby tweet like that?  No.  They aren't fools and want to be taken seriously. They would've probably experienced the sexism and objectification themselves in all likelihood that this ***** clearly hasn't. 

[CyderInACan]

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

I mute the TV at half time when i'm watching robins TV

I usually mute the sound for the entire game. And the picture. 

[Akira]

Really interesting debate this, and apart from the odd one or two comments, most have put across their point of view well. 

Firstly, those who still don't get the point of view, never will I don't think, as it's been explained perfectly as to what the original poster was referring to. I actually raised this with my fiancée to get her opinion and perspective. 

We both have the same view of it. No one is offended by this, at all. It's not offensive. It's extremely unprofessional, and smacks of double standards, which is the problem. 

Having a debate doesn't mean you're offended, so let's get that out of the way, as that's a poor defence for the argument. I think it's fair to say, if anyone had taken a video of the women's team semi naked with the emoji, which is basically saying you're getting hot under the collar, it would've been seen in a totally different light, and I'd imagine the club would order it taken down and disciplinary action taken. 

The problem is, why isn't it the same the other way round? If its inappropriate, it's inappropriate, regardless of who is being filmed and who is sexualising it. 

It's double standards, and that's the point I think that's being raised, and quite rightly too. It does bring healthy debate and discussion, and it's interesting seeing and hearing others views on this, whether you think he's right or wrong to tweet what he did, think we can all agree it's unprofessional, and hard to see that they wouldn't have been sacked if it was a man commenting on women in the same scenario. 

 

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, 2015 said:

An absolute prat isn't he. How the hell is he still in the job 5 years later, he is one of the reasons match days at AG have gone downhill so quickly as well.

Needs his marching orders as I'm sick of hearing his annoying man child style voice

I watch both football and rugby and if you think he's irritating at football, he's in a different dimension of irksomeness at rugby.  Whenever there's an injury delay they cut to him to 'create some atmosphere' including 'Simba cam'.  It definitely changes the atmosphere where I sit, but not in the way he wants.  

The quicker he ***** off to Primark FM the better.

[David Brent]

Whatever your view of it, the tweets to Downsy are embarrassing. Some of his replies are too tbf. 

Don’t particularly enjoy what he does at Ashton Gate but he’s just doing the job he’s paid to do.

 

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

Whenever there's an injury delay they cut to him to 'create some atmosphere' including 'Simba cam'.

The new "Family Rave Cam" (or whatever utter drivel he now does) is irritating to the point of being insulting. He's a sh it DJ, he's a sh it stadium announcer & also, it would seem, sh it at grasping what is appropriate or not to post on twitter. 

 

[Bristol Rob]

27 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

The new "Family Rave Cam" (or whatever utter drivel he now does) is irritating to the point of being insulting. He's a sh it DJ, he's a sh it stadium announcer & also, it would seem, sh it at grasping what is appropriate or not to post on twitter. 

 

So you're on the fence then Reg.

[Waconda]

I feel bad for his husband,

I know I would very upset if my wife posted something like this on social media.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 hours ago, Akira said:

Really interesting debate this, and apart from the odd one or two comments, most have put across their point of view well. 

Firstly, those who still don't get the point of view, never will I don't think, as it's been explained perfectly as to what the original poster was referring to. I actually raised this with my fiancée to get her opinion and perspective. 

We both have the same view of it. No one is offended by this, at all. It's not offensive. It's extremely unprofessional, and smacks of double standards, which is the problem. 

Having a debate doesn't mean you're offended, so let's get that out of the way, as that's a poor defence for the argument. I think it's fair to say, if anyone had taken a video of the women's team semi naked with the emoji, which is basically saying you're getting hot under the collar, it would've been seen in a totally different light, and I'd imagine the club would order it taken down and disciplinary action taken. 

The problem is, why isn't it the same the other way round? If its inappropriate, it's inappropriate, regardless of who is being filmed and who is sexualising it. 

It's double standards, and that's the point I think that's being raised, and quite rightly too. It does bring healthy debate and discussion, and it's interesting seeing and hearing others views on this, whether you think he's right or wrong to tweet what he did, think we can all agree it's unprofessional, and hard to see that they wouldn't have been sacked if it was a man commenting on women in the same scenario. 

 

Very well put. Exactly.

What I find very interesting is Downsy’s choice to engage with the people that have replied to him. 

On the surface - offering to meet people to discuss isn’t a terrible idea. A bit of a strange step, but pretty reasonable I suppose. The flip side is that in engaging he comes across as if he’s doubling down.

I’m very surprised it hasn’t been pointed out to him that it’s unprofessional. Seems like the sort of thing the club would be pretty hot on given that they’re seemingly very aware of social justice issues as per their social media activity. 

Obviously there’s no obligation to reply if you’d rather not - but I’d be interested to hear @Dave L’s take on this given that he’s done a similar role in the past. 

[Henry]

2 hours ago, VT05763 said:

I feel bad for his husband,

I know I would very upset if my wife posted something like this on social media.

 

 

Believe he is single. If he is/was married, the thing the people are pointing out are his behaviour as a club employee, not as a husband or gay man.

 

[Coxy27]

On 01/11/2021 at 15:56, Red-Robbo said:

 

Well I'm sure 99.9% of us knew what we were from an early age.  For me, I had a flash of inspiration at the age of 8 in Backwell Primary School playing field: "Why am I running from the girls in kiss chase? I WANT to be caught by them. Especially that Louise Owen!!"

There are people who find things not so clear cut however. Not so binary.  Different strokes for different blokes, n'all that. 

Reppin' Backwell Primary - booyah

[Selred]

3 hours ago, VT05763 said:

I know I would very upset if my wife posted something like this on social media.

 

Very upset? Give over.

[Dave L]

31 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Very well put. Exactly.

What I find very interesting is Downsy’s choice to engage with the people that have replied to him. 

On the surface - offering to meet people to discuss isn’t a terrible idea. A bit of a strange step, but pretty reasonable I suppose. The flip side is that in engaging he comes across as if he’s doubling down.

I’m very surprised it hasn’t been pointed out to him that it’s unprofessional. Seems like the sort of thing the club would be pretty hot on given that they’re seemingly very aware of social justice issues as per their social media activity. 

Obviously there’s no obligation to reply if you’d rather not - but I’d be interested to hear @Dave L’s take on this given that he’s done a similar role in the past. 

The original tweet was ill advised at worse,  but hardly a hanging offence, and certainly didn't justify the level of criticism from certain quarters. London Bristolian's excellent response sums up my view perfectly. The criticism that Downsy has had is based on 2 factors: his sexuality and certain peoples' views on his presenting style.

First, the sexuality issue. If you want to find inappropriate sexual content on social media, then look no further than this forum, which at times has been a cess pit of sexism, misogyny and female objectification for years now, much of which has been far worse than anything Downsy has posted.  Secondly, his presenting style.  Yes, it's different to mine. Neither better or worse IMO, just different. He has a wide skill set; does the light hearted stuff well, but also has plenty of gravitas when required. For those wishing that I would come back, I must politely decline. The world of stadium presenting has moved on, and I'm very happy out of the spotlight, much as I loved the job when I did it. As I've said many times before, I think Downsy does a good job and I wish him nothing but the best. I also think it was brave of him to respond to his knuckle headed critics on twitter with such good grace and humour. When I was SLO I was called a c*** and a slimy w***** in an Internet chat. I hot a lot of that stuff. I contacted the 3 people in the chat and suggested we met for a beer, so I could work out what I'd done to upset them so much. 2 declined, but I met the other and we had a good face to face meeting and a couple of beers. I think we understood each other better after that.

But that continued level of social media abuse wears you down. That's one of the reasons I packed it in after 9 years. It hurts. Really hurts. Lay off. 

[Phileas Fogg]

19 minutes ago, Dave L said:

The original tweet was ill advised at worse,  but hardly a hanging offence, and certainly didn't justify the level of criticism from certain quarters. London Bristolian's excellent response sums up my view perfectly. The criticism that Downsy has had is based on 2 factors: his sexuality and certain peoples' views on his presenting style.

First, the sexuality issue. If you want to find inappropriate sexual content on social media, then look no further than this forum, which at times has been a cess pit of sexism, misogyny and female objectification for years now, much of which has been far worse than anything Downsy has posted.  Secondly, his presenting style.  Yes, it's different to mine. Neither better or worse IMO, just different. He has a wide skill set; does the light hearted stuff well, but also has plenty of gravitas when required. For those wishing that I would come back, I must politely decline. The world of stadium presenting has moved on, and I'm very happy out of the spotlight, much as I loved the job when I did it. As I've said many times before, I think Downsy does a good job and I wish him nothing but the best. I also think it was brave of him to respond to his knuckle headed critics on twitter with such good grace and humour. When I was SLO I was called a c*** and a slimy w***** in an Internet chat. I hot a lot of that stuff. I contacted the 3 people in the chat and suggested we met for a beer, so I could work out what I'd done to upset them so much. 2 declined, but I met the other and we had a good face to face meeting and a couple of beers. I think we understood each other better after that.

But that continued level of social media abuse wears you down. That's one of the reasons I packed it in after 9 years. It hurts. Really hurts. Lay off. 

Thanks for the reply Dave. Interesting to get your views given the role you did previously.

I’d argue that the criticism can’t be boiled down to just those two areas re: Downsy. In this thread I don’t feel his sexuality has come into it - the main theme seems to be double standards.

I agree that it’s not a cut and dry black and white comparison, (as @LondonBristolianarticulates very well) there’s obviously more nuance than that.  I think though that in his role he has to be very careful to remain professional. It’s a public facing role and he’ll already know he’s hardly flavour of the month with sections of the support. 

Good to get your views on it though.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Phileas Fogg

[When the river runs]

How do some of these lads look like this.

I think there is a lot of peds being used in rugby. That prop 18 stone no fat on him ? natural not a chance. As bad as the tour de france.

I love rugby though

[ZiderEyed]

30 minutes ago, Dave L said:

The original tweet was ill advised at worse,  but hardly a hanging offence, and certainly didn't justify the level of criticism from certain quarters. London Bristolian's excellent response sums up my view perfectly. The criticism that Downsy has had is based on 2 factors: his sexuality and certain peoples' views on his presenting style.

First, the sexuality issue. If you want to find inappropriate sexual content on social media, then look no further than this forum, which at times has been a cess pit of sexism, misogyny and female objectification for years now, much of which has been far worse than anything Downsy has posted.  Secondly, his presenting style.  Yes, it's different to mine. Neither better or worse IMO, just different. He has a wide skill set; does the light hearted stuff well, but also has plenty of gravitas when required. For those wishing that I would come back, I must politely decline. The world of stadium presenting has moved on, and I'm very happy out of the spotlight, much as I loved the job when I did it. As I've said many times before, I think Downsy does a good job and I wish him nothing but the best. I also think it was brave of him to respond to his knuckle headed critics on twitter with such good grace and humour. When I was SLO I was called a c*** and a slimy w***** in an Internet chat. I hot a lot of that stuff. I contacted the 3 people in the chat and suggested we met for a beer, so I could work out what I'd done to upset them so much. 2 declined, but I met the other and we had a good face to face meeting and a couple of beers. I think we understood each other better after that.

But that continued level of social media abuse wears you down. That's one of the reasons I packed it in after 9 years. It hurts. Really hurts. Lay off. 

Amazing post Dave, agree with everything you said. 

[Phileas Fogg]

19 minutes ago, When the river runs said:

How do some of these lads look like this.

I think there is a lot of peds being used in rugby. That prop 18 stone no fat on him ? natural not a chance. As bad as the tour de france.

I love rugby though

I think it’s rife in most sports, including football. Very interesting how in boxing it’s mainly lower profile fighters that get caught.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Phileas Fogg

[GlastonburyRed]

1 hour ago, Dave L said:

The original tweet was ill advised at worse,  but hardly a hanging offence, and certainly didn't justify the level of criticism from certain quarters. London Bristolian's excellent response sums up my view perfectly. The criticism that Downsy has had is based on 2 factors: his sexuality and certain peoples' views on his presenting style.

First, the sexuality issue. If you want to find inappropriate sexual content on social media, then look no further than this forum, which at times has been a cess pit of sexism, misogyny and female objectification for years now, much of which has been far worse than anything Downsy has posted.  Secondly, his presenting style.  Yes, it's different to mine. Neither better or worse IMO, just different. He has a wide skill set; does the light hearted stuff well, but also has plenty of gravitas when required. For those wishing that I would come back, I must politely decline. The world of stadium presenting has moved on, and I'm very happy out of the spotlight, much as I loved the job when I did it. As I've said many times before, I think Downsy does a good job and I wish him nothing but the best. I also think it was brave of him to respond to his knuckle headed critics on twitter with such good grace and humour. When I was SLO I was called a c*** and a slimy w***** in an Internet chat. I hot a lot of that stuff. I contacted the 3 people in the chat and suggested we met for a beer, so I could work out what I'd done to upset them so much. 2 declined, but I met the other and we had a good face to face meeting and a couple of beers. I think we understood each other better after that.

But that continued level of social media abuse wears you down. That's one of the reasons I packed it in after 9 years. It hurts. Really hurts. Lay off. 

Nailed it DL!!!

[cidered abroad]

7 hours ago, The Bard said:

I watch both football and rugby and if you think he's irritating at football, he's in a different dimension of irksomeness at rugby.  Whenever there's an injury delay they cut to him to 'create some atmosphere' including 'Simba cam'.  It definitely changes the atmosphere where I sit, but not in the way he wants.  

The quicker he ***** off to Primark FM the better.

Appalling thing to do while a player is injured and if conscious the player can even see/hear it on the two screens. Imagine him doing it while a player could actually be losing their life.

[Maesknoll Red]

1 hour ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Nailed it DL!!!

The people posting on here aren’t representing Bristol Sport in a professional capacity.  

[CyderInACan]

2 hours ago, When the river runs said:

 

I think there is a lot of peds being used in rugby. 

Who, what, where or how are “peds”? (Genuine question!) 

[When the river runs]

13 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Who, what, where or how are “peds”? (Genuine question!) 

Performance enhancing drugs.

Some of them dont look normal at all. A lot of growth hormone I suspect.

Obviously good players in the first place,but I'd be amazed if the muscle on some of them is just hard work and diet

 

[CyderInACan]

12 minutes ago, When the river runs said:

Performance enhancing drugs.

Some of them dont look normal at all. A lot of growth hormone I suspect.

Obviously good players in the first place,but I'd be amazed if the muscle on some of them is just hard work and diet

 

Oh. That’s a shame. 

[Henry]

3 hours ago, Dave L said:

 The criticism that Downsy has had is based on 2 factors: his sexuality and certain peoples' views on his presenting style.

 

Nope and nope.

[GlastonburyRed]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The people posting on here aren’t representing Bristol Sport in a professional capacity.  

I think there has been near universal agreement that the tweet was misjudged. It’s the disproportionate response on here that raises questions of a double standard and a pile on motivated by something other than the tweet’s content. 

[Maesknoll Red]

23 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said:

I think there has been near universal agreement that the tweet was misjudged. It’s the disproportionate response on here that raises questions of a double standard and a pile on motivated by something other than the tweet’s content. 

If you sort the wheat from the chaff, there was some reasonable debate on here about it, I just ignored the comments on his style/ability.

[Leveller]

18 hours ago, GlastonburyRed said:

I think there has been near universal agreement that the tweet was misjudged. It’s the disproportionate response on here that raises questions of a double standard and a pile on motivated by something other than the tweet’s content. 

Completely disagree. Almost everybody has been discussing his tweet in a balanced manner, while a few have added that they don’t rate his presenting. Nothing else to see. 

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

And the mods still let robbored keep his avatar..... ummmm

[KevP]

3 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

And the mods still let robbored keep his avatar..... ummmm

Surprised you haven't still got yours with the bloke driving the bus .........

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

3 minutes ago, KevP said:

Surprised you haven't still got yours with the bloke driving the bus .........

Requested it was removed.....