Isn’t Kasey too good to leave out in the cold ….

[Supersonic Robin]

2 hours ago, Fjmcity said:

not sure it is effort actually, more down to skill.. not technical ability -he clearly has that in spades but he cant put that into something productive in the championship and other parts of his game are clearly lacking.

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I might be incorrectly summarising your post, but I think he lacks football intelligence….is that what you’re saying - it’s what I’d call “nouse” as you say.  Ignore the fitness issues for the mo’, he doesn’t put in a lack of effort, he is inefficient, he charges around and tires himself out, especially if it’s having not played. 

Agree with these comments - I don't think it's as simple as "He's a brilliant player who simply doesn't put the effort in". Palmer has very good technical ability, but is clearly lacking in other areas. I don't necessarily think it's a lack of physical effort. I'd describe it as a lack of focus, concentration, and awareness more than anything, both in and out of possession.

Think we're all trying to describe roughly the same thing though.

 

[LondonBristolian]

I really want to believe Kasey is too good to leave out in the cold but, as others in this thread have said, the onus is on him to demonstrate that. There's something stopping him being a fantastic player. I'm not quite sure what it is - and others have touched on the same thing - but I think he's talented and I honestly think he tries far harder than some give him credit for but he's not developed the ability to consistently deliver.

Time's not run out for him to improve but he has got to do so and I don't know how many more chances he will get with us. I feel similar to how I feel with Taylor Moore and Zak Vyner in that I want him to succeed and there's a lot about his game that I like. But, based on what I've seen, I can't make a case for him getting more regular game time and I can't fault the manager for leaving him out. 

[GrahamC]

13 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think that’s pretty disingenuous to JET. He was absolutely brilliant for us here. The only reason he was dropped is because we had two other strikers who were banging them in (Wilbs and Agard?) but when the time came for JET and (awful) Matt Smith to step up, they were more than adequate. Unless I’m miss remembering (I do have a bit of a soft spot for JET!)

Not misremembering at all.

JET was brilliant in an awful side under SOD then a very useful squad player under Cotts, he got 24 goals in 52 starts & 30 sub appearances for a bloke that we signed for nothing.

We have had far worse & in his first season he was literally the only player worth watching.

[E.G.Red]

20 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think that’s pretty disingenuous to JET. He was absolutely brilliant for us here. The only reason he was dropped is because we had two other strikers who were banging them in (Wilbs and Agard?) but when the time came for JET and (awful) Matt Smith to step up, they were more than adequate. Unless I’m miss remembering (I do have a bit of a soft spot for JET!)

I too have a soft spot for JET, but he was dropped as soon as the others were fit, even though he had done such a good job for us. Those returning should have earned their place and not just be an automatic choice.My point was that we canot expect players just to come in and then be dropped next game.  When KP signed for us, one of the reasons was for stability and I don't think that we have really offered him that in terms of playing time.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, E.G.Red said:

I too have a soft spot for JET, but he was dropped as soon as the others were fit, even though he had done such a good job for us. Those returning should have earned their place and not just be an automatic choice.My point was that we canot expect players just to come in and then be dropped next game.  When KP signed for us, one of the reasons was for stability and I don't think that we have really offered him that in terms of playing time.

I actually think he was happy to play the bit-part.  Could probably coast a bit through training, knowing he’d get his sub 3 minutes most games and if needed would start.

I reckon looking back, he might regret it a bit, but he looked like he had a fun life at the time so hey-ho.

I always worried him not starting might be bad for the squad, but he seemed to be happy to play along.

Amazing ability.  Wonderful moments of skills and goals on the end of it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I've got mixed views on Palmer. Clearly he has a lot of technical ability but where he fits in tactically and how that impacts upon the side is a worry for me- that's before we even talk of the training etc.

Out of possession, not the sort of player who can slot between supporting the attack and comfortably dropping into a 3 IMO- think I dunno to name a few at our level in recent times Johansen, Mowatt, Marcondes- there's loads more. Brownhill was one although he could do many things! You could argue Reid in some setups, in fact he was 2 players in 1 in some respects...

Back onto Palmer, don't think he's an ideal tactical fit and does he produce enough end product? Although I have to wonder if there could be- and have wondered this before- could he be some kind of partial false 9...4-3-1-2 but the '2' are wide strikers and in certain phases they will pull wider be it higher or a bit deeper- perhaps pull full backs out of position and Palmer can burst into the space and exploit it- perhaps a bit of skill between the lines in those scenarios. We would also be covered tactically because of a) 2 v 2 in wide areas ie the wide strikers help out or pin back and 3 in the centre so Palmer could focus a bit more on what he can do than what he can't.

Overall though, I'm struggling to see how he fits tactically- certainly as a regular starter etc.

[fgrsimon]

Maybe Milwall would take him in January, then he could link up with Benik Afobe again. That was his best spell before Afobe got injured.

[Major Isewater]

I think he would be a good fit for a team like Sunderland or Wigan ,where he could shine in the third division ,with a promotion seeking side and get regular starts thus developing his reading of the game.

 He is like many players who have passed through our club , frustrating ! 

[Riaz]

10 hours ago, just like watching brazil said:

Think he’s going to be the next jet.

He already is.

[The Bard]

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

Yep, I think that’s  spot on.

LJ thought he could get the best out of KP but failed and now a far more experienced manager in Nige is having the same difficulty.

The ‘issue’ has to lie with KP himself and in some ways he reminds me of JET who was blessed with sublime ability but couldn’t be arsed half the time to perform. KP seems to be very similar.

JET could have played at a far higher level as KP could but both lack that drive to put in the effort required.

 

He's not fit to lace JET's boots.  Strip away the "Chelsea" veneer and he isn't all that. JET produced and literally won games singlehandedly.

 

Palmer has skill but is ineffectual having the really bad habit of giving the ball away in dangerous positions.  

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Maybe Milwall would take him in January, then he could link up with Benik Afobe again. That was his best spell before Afobe got injured.

Lots of talk of him playing as no10, but his best spell was actually in a midfield 3 (352) with Brownhill and Massengo when he first signed permanently. He did his shift defensively, but as you say had two forwards with movement, intelligent movement, Afobe and Weimann.

It didn’t last long, as LJ changed it, Afobe got injured, etc. Who knows, it might’ve been a fluke sequence of games, but he is capable…but at this point in his career it is about him taking responsibility for it. 

[marmite]

6 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Maybe Milwall would take him in January, then he could link up with Benik Afobe again. That was his best spell before Afobe got injured.

Or maybe we should get Afobe back here! Palmer has had chances here but not a great run of games to instill himself in the team. One poor performance and he's out. Others have had more chances even when under performing.

[Oh Louie louie]

I think he will probaly do a jet,

By that i mean, be lucky to play 10 games again at this level.

Then, if hes lucky, a third rate team in scotland might take a punt on him.

Hes had too many chances, like others have said.

[Rossi the Robin]

13 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

 

Mixed messages from NP, or just a kick up the arse for Kasey - slack off in training and your toast.

He's a very talented footballer and still young, he'll come good either here or elsewhere.

In L1 or below, possibly 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

11 minutes ago, marmite said:

Or maybe we should get Afobe back here! Palmer has had chances here but not a great run of games to instill himself in the team. One poor performance and he's out. Others have had more chances even when under performing.

Palmer needs someone to show some faith in him.  He needs a run in the side and he needs players around him to get used to what he does and to make the runs that suit his passing ability.  When he plays there is often so little movement around him that you can see that his ability is stifled.  Personally I think the sign of a good manager is the ability to incorporate players of Palmer’s ability, but many managers seem unable to fit them in.  He has to be given freedom, but he has to have players around him that suit.  I believe he could be a very good player at the level he presently is, or higher, if given a chance (I don’t buy the comparisons with JET who never seemed fully committed to football, and had fitness issues).  Palmer is at least a Championship player and as marmite says, the likes of Afobe can bring the best out of him.  Sadly, he ain’t going to be a pair for Martin.

1 minute ago, Rossi the Robin said:

In L1 or below, possibly 

Absolutely not.

[Robbored]

48 minutes ago, The Bard said:

He's not fit to lace JET's boots.  Strip away the "Chelsea" veneer and he isn't all that. JET produced and literally won games singlehandedly.

 

Palmer has skill but is ineffectual having the really bad habit of giving the ball away in dangerous positions.  

It was their attitude thats a similarity between the two - no doubt at all that JETs skill range was far greater than KPs but that wasn’t the point I was making.

[The Bard]

14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It was their attitude thats a similarity between the two - no doubt at all that JETs skill range was far greater than KPs but that wasn’t the point I was making.

I see little similarity in attitude and I wonder why anyone does?

JET by his nature was hit and miss. Off days and on.   You accepted the misses because you knew you'd get the hits.

 

Palmer has Chelseaitis or whatever the scouts call it.  Seems very nice, almost too nice but needs to actually impose himself on games. 

[Roger Red Hat]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

but at this point in his career it is about him taking responsibility for it. 

Spot on. I think Palmer really likes the idea of being a pro footballer, but cannot apply himself consistently to actually BE one. Its interesting that before we actually signed him permanently we had to wait for Lampard to have a look at him and decide if he wanted him at Chelsea along with other young players. He didn't and we got him.

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Its interesting that before we actually signed him permanently we had to wait for Lampard to have a look at him and decide if he wanted him at Chelsea along with other young players. He didn't and we got him.

And at that point MA should’ve been negotiating down the price and wages, even if Chelsea had to continue contributing.  

[KegCity]

I really like Palmer and think he's a quality player. We're struggling to create anything and it seems sensible to give him a proper run in the side at some point. Thought he looked good against Fulham and obviously got his goal.

But, the same criticisms I and others levy at COD apply to Palmer too. He's had a lot of opportunities, under multiple managers, to settle and hasn't. The common denominator is KP. I do think there's more to Palmer than COD mind, COD is consistently anonymous whereas Palmer might turn a game on its head or might reduce us to ten men. Pearson's comments on Saturday also suggest he's not pulling his weight in training, which if is the case then he doesn't deserve a sniff of minutes.

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

 

JET by his nature was hit and miss. Off days and on.   You accepted the misses because you knew you'd get the hits.

 

You can say the same about Palmer, I'm a fan of both players but neither were/are consistent. What Palmer lacks in long range screamers he makes up for in good forward passing to break the lines of a defence. Nobody else in the squad has the ability to thread passes like Palmer, but his inconsistency holds him back massively. It's up to Pearson whether he wants to take the rough with the smooth.

[Monkeh]

16 hours ago, Denbury Red said:

The short piece in Robins Live - just received by email, and the video footage of Kasey’s goal against Birmingham shown again today makes me wonder if we are missing a trick!

Could and perhaps should he be tried further up the pitch?

He can certainly finish (as seen in the Birmingham video), he has more strength than some of our other options, and whilst the teenagers seem to be getting the nod for the midfield positions, with Nakhi unable to hit a barn door at times - perhaps Kasey should be given a try up front?

He’s still young and I’m not sure he’s found his best position!

No he isn't good enough and no where near being close to good enough,

He's never been a starter anywhere he's been, us huddlesfield blackburn Swansea 

He's a waste of money and a passenger in a game 90% of the time, we are not good enough to carry that sort of player

[And Its Smith]

3 hours ago, The Bard said:

He's not fit to lace JET's boots.  Strip away the "Chelsea" veneer and he isn't all that. JET produced and literally won games singlehandedly.

 

Palmer has skill but is ineffectual having the really bad habit of giving the ball away in dangerous positions.  

Palmer would produce in league one as well I reckon 

[REDOXO]

16 hours ago, Redpool said:

Kasey is done in my view. Had so many chances and hasn’t taken them. Another one to get off the wage bill.

Unfortunately he has been awful since Afobi got injured. He reminds me of a dreadlocked Tony Dinning that’s blocking the path of one of our kids, who would be equally useful as a bench sitter. For the love of god I just got a vision of Engval. LJ did buy some shite. 

[Monkeh]

13 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Yes I can agree with that. But I really feel Wells is a 20 goal striker and we are wasting that. Play him central forward with a supply line. And I am sure Palmer could do that.

Just my opinion of course

Tin hat on 

Wells has only scored 20 goals in a season once......fir Bradford.....in league 2

He isnt a 20 goal a season striker and never will be at this level, if anything he'd be the first out of the door before palmer 

[Clutton Caveman]

16 hours ago, petehinton said:

But then also said a few weeks ago he was training well, and loved his attitude for asking to play in the u23s, got his cameo & goal against Fulham as a result iirc. All sounds ominous. Wouldn’t surprise me if injured 

Classic case of bags of talent bad attitude, unfortunately a product of the system where kids grow up in a bubble of entitlement. Plenty of first team regulars would kill for some of his skills but few managers seem to trust him.

[downendcity]

Palmer has all the attributes to be the player we all long for - good on the ball, able to beat defenders, make telling passes and provide the creative spark that all too often we seem to lack. As a result I think that many have been prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that successive managers will give him the chance to show his worth, that feeling being reinforced by the glimpse we saw soon after his signing playing behind Afobe.

I think he is now at a watershed, as he is now well past his second chance. It also seems pretty clear that Pearson is laying down the minimum requirements for the players that want to feature in the first team. Iin particular effort and application, not just skill, ability and potential. If suggestions that KP is not training well are true, then I find that inexcusable, as I would have thought training properly to be a minimum requirement of any professional footballer, let alone one at championship level earning in the region of £20k per week.

He is a player I’ve so much wanted to succeed, but unless he is prepared to take his own game by the scruff of the neck I can see him getting off Pearson’s bus at the next stop.

 

 

[marmite]

Kasey is that old enigma where if he was playing against us we would say "wow  he's just what we need ".  Trouble is,  as has been stated on here, we don't play a style that would suit him.  We play long ball to Martin rather than play through midfield with runners up top , which would suit Palmers game more. I think we change our game to suit his style, which I would prefer to watch anyway , or we let him go. My money's on the latter.

[Clutton Caveman]

9 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Maybe Milwall would take him in January, then he could link up with Benik Afobe again. That was his best spell before Afobe got injured.

I just thought about the options for NP. If you consider all of our higher earners, which ones do you think would attract a bid in January if they were available at a realistic price? Remember he has to sell before he buys

For me Kalas, Bentley, possibly Massengo

That leaves the likes of Wells, Palmer, O'Dowd, Baker, Martin and Weimann basically here until their contract runs out.

Our kids look just that, kids. Perhaps able to contribute here or there but far from stepping up and improving the team.

Not really a great picture is it? Perhaps having lost 2 coaches and the Director of the academy we may have a little bit of wriggle room for a January loan. 

Having had a chance to look at the situation last season I think NP only joined us because we were the only offer on the table, so does that mean that we not only have a bunch of players that nobody else wants and a coach in the same category.

Just a thought. Well done SL.

[Taylor10]

4 hours ago, The Bard said:

He's not fit to lace JET's boots.  Strip away the "Chelsea" veneer and he isn't all that. JET produced and literally won games singlehandedly.

 

Palmer has skill but is ineffectual having the really bad habit of giving the ball away in dangerous positions.  

You have taken the words right out my mouth here fella.

I get the comparisons with JET but KP isn’t fit to lace JET’s boots. I used to love watching him. What a player. I can’t imagine KP would ever contribute to so many goals or assists even if he dropped down a league.