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False No 9


Abraham Romanovich

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Another piece of footballing terminology that has crept in!!

Gone are the days of a  nippy winger, a big man up front, and the all important clogger.

My understanding,  is to avoid having a striker playing in the recognised role of a traditional "No.9 " who would typically play right up against the back 4, primarily to engage the centre-backs.

With the false 9, a player will drop deeper or into any number of positions meaning the Centre-backs have to decide whether to follow, leaving spaces or to stay, leaving a player unmarked creating an overload for the opposition midfield.

It seems to work best with midfielders running from deep to fill the holes left by the false 9, making them more difficult to pick up. This is where it differs a little from a simple case of a No.9 dropping deep t get the ball e.g. Harry Kane. 

My view is that a false number 9 is a number 9 who does not look like or play like Bob Latchford, Bobby Smith or Ron Davies and is stealing a living.

 

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1 minute ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

My view is that a false number 9 is a number 9 who does not look like or play like Bob Latchford, Bobby Smith or Ron Davies and is stealing a living.

 

Or you could look at them as pivotal to the performance of others, e.g. Firminho at Liverpool, or when Barcelona played without a striker.

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10 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Another piece of footballing terminology that has crept in!!

Gone are the days of a  nippy winger, a big man up front, and the all important clogger.

My understanding,  is to avoid having a striker playing in the recognised role of a traditional "No.9 " who would typically play right up against the back 4, primarily to engage the centre-backs.

With the false 9, a player will drop deeper or into any number of positions meaning the Centre-backs have to decide whether to follow, leaving spaces or to stay, leaving a player unmarked creating an overload for the opposition midfield.

It seems to work best with midfielders running from deep to fill the holes left by the false 9, making them more difficult to pick up. This is where it differs a little from a simple case of a No.9 dropping deep t get the ball e.g. Harry Kane. 

My view is that a false number 9 is a number 9 who does not look like or play like Bob Latchford, Bobby Smith or Ron Davies and is stealing a living.

 

Did you go to the Man Utd home game? 

We essentially played with 2 false 9's that game in Reid and Paterson. As you mentioned, a benefit can be that a 3rd man run can be effective to get beyond the forwards into dangerous areas which is exactly what happened for both our goals that night. So I'm surprised you feel that players in that role steal a living given that night!

Here's LJ discussing that: Coaches' Voice | Lee Johnson (coachesvoice.com) 

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28 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

Did you go to the Man Utd home game? 

We essentially played with 2 false 9's that game in Reid and Paterson. As you mentioned, a benefit can be that a 3rd man run can be effective to get beyond the forwards into dangerous areas which is exactly what happened for both our goals that night. So I'm surprised you feel that players in that role steal a living given that night!

Here's LJ discussing that: Coaches' Voice | Lee Johnson (coachesvoice.com) 

Another article there on False 9s

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/what-is-a-false-nine-explained-messi-kane-firmino-fabregas/

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52 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Another piece of footballing terminology that has crept in!!

Gone are the days of a  nippy winger, a big man up front, and the all important clogger.

My understanding,  is to avoid having a striker playing in the recognised role of a traditional "No.9 " who would typically play right up against the back 4, primarily to engage the centre-backs.

With the false 9, a player will drop deeper or into any number of positions meaning the Centre-backs have to decide whether to follow, leaving spaces or to stay, leaving a player unmarked creating an overload for the opposition midfield.

It seems to work best with midfielders running from deep to fill the holes left by the false 9, making them more difficult to pick up. This is where it differs a little from a simple case of a No.9 dropping deep t get the ball e.g. Harry Kane. 

My view is that a false number 9 is a number 9 who does not look like or play like Bob Latchford, Bobby Smith or Ron Davies and is stealing a living.

 

Just because it’s got a name now doesn’t mean it’s a new creation. As for stealing a living, that’s just not reality

Firmino for Liverpool, Bobby Reid for us, Totti for Roma, Fabregas for Spain in Euro 2012, Van Persie at United on occasions, Cruyff for Ajax in their famous 1-3-3-3 formation.  There are also examples from much earlier than that namely Hungary and Uruguay but I didn’t see that with my own eyes 

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10 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Just because it’s got a name now doesn’t mean it’s a new creation. As for stealing a living, that’s just not reality

Firmino for Liverpool, Bobby Reid for us, Totti for Roma, Fabregas for Spain in Euro 2012, Van Persie at United on occasions, Cruyff for Ajax in their famous 1-3-3-3 formation.  There are also examples from much earlier than that namely Hungary and Uruguay but I didn’t see that with my own eyes 

I've seen it suggested that Austria did it in the 1930s. Also, I think, that Don Revie played that role for Man City in the 1950s.

There is still a residual English mindset that you have to play with a big man up front despite the game having evolved so much.

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50 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I've seen it suggested that Austria did it in the 1930s. Also, I think, that Don Revie played that role for Man City in the 1950s.

There is still a residual English mindset that you have to play with a big man up front despite the game having evolved so much.

Spot on and I recall that Revie played this role, aka the deep lying centre forward, to great effect in the 'Trautmann' FA Cup Final of 1956.

Edited by Curr Avon
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Another bit of terminology that has crept in is a player playing “in the number 10 position”. Number 10 used to just be a number on the back of a players shirt, usually for someone who was an inside forward in old jargon. Now that numbers don’t mean anything, and inside forward sounds old fashioned, number 10 has become a position. 
 

As for a false number nine, over the years I’ve watched City we’ve had false players with just about every number on their back. We’ve got a few in the current squad

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I wondered in the past if Palmer could be some sort of false 9. I think that ship has sailed now.

4-3-1-2

Back 4, 3 CM

Palmer as the 1 and the strikers would be wide forwards.

When they do pull wide, space can open up and between the lines and yet we would be tactically well covered in other areas so maybe, I wondered in the past anyway.

Palmer and a long term future here though, that ship has surely sailed for various reasons.

Paterson-Reid. Great example, the latter was like 2 players in 1 at times too given his knowledge etc as a CM. Knowledge and experience he could fall back on helps us tactically a lot.

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7 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Reid when we played strikerless against Fulham too I think?

 

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

How did o forget our own Bobby Reid and Pato. Doh!

Probably my most enjoyable time for watching football with City. Reid was clever and had vision , ex midfielder which helps, Pato was bright and keen to get forward. But TBF he wasn't the only one running past the "forwards". Great, if short, spell of good football.

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7 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Another piece of footballing terminology that has crept in!!

Gone are the days of a  nippy winger, a big man up front, and the all important clogger.

My understanding,  is to avoid having a striker playing in the recognised role of a traditional "No.9 " who would typically play right up against the back 4, primarily to engage the centre-backs.

With the false 9, a player will drop deeper or into any number of positions meaning the Centre-backs have to decide whether to follow, leaving spaces or to stay, leaving a player unmarked creating an overload for the opposition midfield.

It seems to work best with midfielders running from deep to fill the holes left by the false 9, making them more difficult to pick up. This is where it differs a little from a simple case of a No.9 dropping deep t get the ball e.g. Harry Kane. 

My view is that a false number 9 is a number 9 who does not look like or play like Bob Latchford, Bobby Smith or Ron Davies and is stealing a living.

 

Like Don Revie or Hideghuti?

@Abraham Romanovich

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While it's obviously a position and important role, it does make me laugh with some of the suggestions and analysis you see around where people have just glued about five positions/roles together.

Firminio is a great example, as an off right false 9 defensive trequartista or whatever we're up to now.

Usually mixed with randomly trying to play someone out of position because all you need to do is ask them to stand in a new spot on the pitch and away they go right?

 

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1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

While it's obviously a position and important role, it does make me laugh with some of the suggestions and analysis you see around where people have just glued about five positions/roles together.

Firminio is a great example, as an off right false 9 defensive trequartista or whatever we're up to now.

Usually mixed with randomly trying to play someone out of position because all you need to do is ask them to stand in a new spot on the pitch and away they go right?

 

Football has become too complicated each team has 10 outfield players so If a player drops off it's not up to one of the opposition players to mark him. How hard can it be!

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