Smaller squad - Backfiring?

[Lew-T]

It’s becoming clear that the strength in depth is pretty weak. And what with injury record to some of our players, was it the right call not to bring more in at the time?

[pl00peh91]

I have a genuine chip on my shoulder over us releasing Paterson. What a bone headed move that was.

[Redstart]

I think it's more shite squad backfiring unfortunately. 

So disappointing that we seem to have gone miles backwards in that respect in the last few years. 

[Edge1981]

20 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said:

I have a genuine chip on my shoulder over us releasing Paterson. What a bone headed move that was.

I feel the same with Korey Smith too

[Mr Popodopolous]

Always thought we were 2-3 light. Especially given the range of injuries although still not as bad as last season, certainly not.

Midfield- Bakinson appears to have gone backwards if anything, he had his bad and his good points last season but at least he chipped in with 2-3 goals.

[Ciderhead433]

23 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said:

I have a genuine chip on my shoulder over us releasing Paterson. What a bone headed move that was.

Was talking about that in work with a mate. Should have kept Smith and Paterson and maybe Walsh

[Lack of Action Man]

 

23 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I think it's more shite squad backfiring unfortunately. 

So disappointing that we seem to have gone miles backwards in that respect in the last few years. 

You’re spot on.

FWIW I felt the squad began to decline with the bombing out of Ayling. Totally barmy decision if purely on the field ability is considered.

[NewquayRed]

Arrogant to think we could survive this campaign without recruiting in the summer, feels like we have given up on the championship and the next 6 months are pre-season. 

[Dullmoan Tone]

The fact that so many fans are calling on us to play the youngsters is telling.

it’s almost as if anyone different will be better - the reality is that learning your trade within this team will be so difficult as Saturday showed.

[Dynamite Red]

We are a mess, players like Wells, Palmer, Kalas, DaSilva who are up there as our highest wage earners and not pulling their weight for their wages. Honestly apart from maybe Kalas I would happily see them all go. A waste of money. 

We have players who are clearly past there best, Martin, Simpson and King. 

Supplement them with promising but currently league 1 standard players such as Bakinson, Pring, Semenyo, Scott, Tanner, Atkinson. 

Now add no creativity or dynamic forwards and wingers and you can see we badly need an injection of quality. Can't expect to release a dozen first players in the summer and it have no impact. Utterly wasted our wages on overpaid shite. 

[Bs4Red]

Just now, JonDolman said:

I liked him but let's not assume he'd be playing well for us! He wouldn't suit Nige's tactics imo.

Pato really suits a footballing side like Swansea. I was pretty confident he'd do well there..and I said numerous times he needs to be in a possession based side where he can have lots of touches.

Pearson only needs a centre half to lump the ball. We could play with no midfield and it wouldn’t matter.

This squad isn’t as bad as is made out, that’s been proven. What he’s doijg with it is the problem. 

Barnsley have a far worse side and played much better football than us by far. 

 

 

[Rich]

I think the O P is correct, our strength in depth is too reliant on young inexperienced players. To go with a smaller squad is proving at this moment to be costing us dearly. We really could do with a fit Joe Williams and Semenyo. Just having those two would make a massive difference, if only they could get fit.

Our defence is made up of players making the step up to this level, which generally they are doing ok but, the occasional lapses are costing us possession, goals, points and ultimately putting pressure on the other team members.

We have a totally ineffective strike force, with one immobile old head, one ballet dancer and one eager to impress but, less effective due to exertions around the pitch that his partners could do with a little of. We are effectively using every available player in attack. Short of using an untried player like Palmer or yet another youngster, there is no other choice.

Our midfield is decimated and easily bullied, we are in desperate need of some old fashioned grit and determination, which we seemed to have early in the season. As the season has progressed, this has proven to be just not enough and our fitter faster squad is still not big enough to compete with virtually every team in this division physically. 

In terms of the players fitness, this is purely down to the clubs recruitment policy. On the whole, we bring in decent footballers but it seems, they are frequently recovering from or have had, long term injuries in their past or, have a deficiency in their size. This results in us constantly rotating a mediocre squad or, being without this or that player for a good part of the season. It's because we're always going for the cheaper option, due to financial restraints, even when there was no FFP. I remember GT asking SL if we could have matched the wages offered for Gray, when he opted to join Burnley instead of us. SL insisted we could have matched their offer. GT never asked if we did, I suspect we never.

It was plainly obvious tonight that although we had lots of possession and moved the ball quite well without being much of a goal threat, in the important areas, Birmingham had the benefit of strong mobile players who basically brushed our attempts to attack and defend, to one side, as if they weren't there.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Rich
addition

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, pl00peh91 said:

I have a genuine chip on my shoulder over us releasing Paterson. What a bone headed move that was.

A financial decision….pretty much forced on him, because of the wasteful years of MA.  Nige himself said Pato was unlucky not to get a contract offer.  Unfortunately budgets dictate, it doesn’t become a football ability decision when racking up £35m losses.  I think most of us saw the talent of Pato, but he’d just been through a series of recurring hip injuries too.

Walsh was never staying according to some, so what do you do?

We can’t treat it like playing a game of Football Manager.

[Waconda]

41 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Pearson only needs a centre half to lump the ball. We could play with no midfield and it wouldn’t matter.

This squad isn’t as bad as is made out, that’s been proven. What he’s doijg with it is the problem. 

Barnsley have a far worse side and played much better football than us by far. 

 

 

YES.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

A financial decision….pretty much forced on him, because of the wasteful years of MA.  Nige himself said Pato was unlucky not to get a contract offer.  Unfortunately budgets dictate, it doesn’t become a football ability decision when racking up £35m losses.  I think most of us saw the talent of Pato, but he’d just been through a series of recurring hip injuries too.

Walsh was never staying according to some, so what do you do?

We can’t treat it like playing a game of Football Manager.

Certainly shouldn't be described as "dead wood" though - IMO

[bexhill reds]

1 hour ago, pl00peh91 said:

I have a genuine chip on my shoulder over us releasing Paterson. What a bone headed move that was.

I don’t think Paterson would have been effective in this team. Swansea are set up to allow a creative player like him flourish, we don’t have that.

[mozo]

We need some bloody good loan signings in January to bolster the squad.

It's all well and good having a small squad but it needs the right ingredients.

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

I don’t think Paterson would have been effective in this team. Swansea are set up to allow a creative player like him flourish, we don’t have that.

"take a touch and knock it" = Not his type of game.

[Fuber]

47 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Pearson only needs a centre half to lump the ball. We could play with no midfield and it wouldn’t matter.

This squad isn’t as bad as is made out, that’s been proven. What he’s doijg with it is the problem. 

Barnsley have a far worse side and played much better football than us by far. 

 

 

Barnsley came fifth last season with near that same squad, less one player.

The difference was their manager. The replacement for whom has now been sacked.

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Certainly shouldn't be described as "dead wood" though - IMO

Who is describing as that?  Not me for sure.  I might describe others as that, and some we are left with, but not Pato.  I’m a great admirer of his tech ability, I don’t subscribe to the 1 in 10 either….I might critique some other parts of his game though.

27 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

In all of the gloom , the hilarious suggestion Patterson would have saved us . Neatly forgetting how unreliable he was or that LJ sent him on loan . People are scrabbling around in frustration . It’s a time for cool heads and support . We are in a greatly difficult and complex situation . The solution will not be instant . 

When I was working on a huge programme for an ex-employer, I was genuinely surprised how much some of my seniors flapped when things got a bit scary / fraught.  Yet people at my lower level remained calm, stuck to our methods and processes and held some of it together.  I had no problem them coming to me for info to help them make a decision….that’s my place in the food chain.  But what I objected to was them coming to me and expecting me to give them the answer they wanted to hear.

OTIB seems to be the place at times like these to knee jerk and think about it later, if at all.

[westonred]

Our current squad just isn't good enough and NP is now taking the brunt of the frustrated fans for a the majority of the squad assembled before his tenure

 

You can break the squad into 3 categories

 

Not good enough yet but has potential so keep and loan out:

Bakinson

Bell

Conway

Scott

Cundy

Janneh

Benarous

 

 

Had plenty of chances time to ditch

COD

JD

Martin

Palmer

Vyner

Simpson

 

Keep

Bentley

MOL

Kalas

Baker

Wells

Weimann

Massengo

King (Havent seen enough of yet ? )

James

Williams

Semenyo

Pring

Tanner

Atkinson

Edited November 3, 2021 by westonred

[pl00peh91]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

A financial decision….pretty much forced on him, because of the wasteful years of MA.  Nige himself said Pato was unlucky not to get a contract offer.  Unfortunately budgets dictate, it doesn’t become a football ability decision when racking up £35m losses.  I think most of us saw the talent of Pato, but he’d just been through a series of recurring hip injuries too.

Walsh was never staying according to some, so what do you do?

We can’t treat it like playing a game of Football Manager.

You will never convince me it was a good idea 

[Bernard Lerring]

8 hours ago, Dynamite Red said:

We are a mess, players like Wells, Palmer, Kalas, DaSilva who are up there as our highest wage earners and not pulling their weight for their wages. Honestly apart from maybe Kalas I would happily see them all go. A waste of money. 

We have players who are clearly past there best, Martin, Simpson and King. 

Supplement them with promising but currently league 1 standard players such as Bakinson, Pring, Semenyo, Scott, Tanner, Atkinson. 

Now add no creativity or dynamic forwards and wingers and you can see we badly need an injection of quality. Can't expect to release a dozen first players in the summer and it have no impact. Utterly wasted our wages on overpaid shite. 

Nail on the head 

[Pezo]

1 hour ago, westonred said:

Our current squad just isn't good enough and NP is now taking the brunt of the frustrated fans for a the majority of the squad assembled before his tenure

 

You can break the squad into 3 categories

 

Not good enough yet but has potential so keep and loan out:

Bakinson

Bell

Conway

Scott

Cundy

Janneh

Benarous

 

 

Had plenty of chances time to ditch

COD

JD

Martin

Palmer

Vyner

Simpson

 

Keep

Bentley

MOL

Kalas

Baker

Wells

Weimann

Massengo

King (Havent seen enough of yet ? )

James

Williams

Semenyo

Pring

Tanner

Atkinson

So what you're basically saying is we have a real championship squad of 13 maybe 14, 2 of which are GK.

[The Original OTIB]

10 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I liked him but let's not assume he'd be playing well for us! He wouldn't suit Nige's tactics imo.

Pato really suits a footballing side like Swansea. I was pretty confident he'd do well there..and I said numerous times he needs to be in a possession based side where he can have lots of touches.

What are our "tactics"?

[Simon bristol]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

A financial decision….pretty much forced on him, because of the wasteful years of MA.  Nige himself said Pato was unlucky not to get a contract offer.  Unfortunately budgets dictate, it doesn’t become a football ability decision when racking up £35m losses.  I think most of us saw the talent of Pato, but he’d just been through a series of recurring hip injuries too.

Walsh was never staying according to some, so what do you do?

We can’t treat it like playing a game of Football Manager.

I dont think there was a stunned reaction to pato going in the summer, he was a decent servant to us, but really, it was his time to move on. I dont think though that this was affected by finances when we were offering contracts to king and simpson and spending 2 million on atkinson and tanner.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

10 hours ago, Lew-T said:

It’s becoming clear that the strength in depth is pretty weak. And what with injury record to some of our players, was it the right call not to bring more in at the time?

I'm not sure it was necessarily our choice on that front, I think NP has said he likes to work with a smaller squad but we also had to cut the wages down to avoid financial meltdown.   I think if NP had a choice he would have kept the likes of Patterson but unfortunately I think the players who could move and keep their salary did, a lot of players got released but ultimately we are at the beginning of a long road.    I think Vyners days are numbered its hard to see where he can add value. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

10 hours ago, Dynamite Red said:

We are a mess, players like Wells, Palmer, Kalas, DaSilva who are up there as our highest wage earners and not pulling their weight for their wages. Honestly apart from maybe Kalas I would happily see them all go. A waste of money. 

We have players who are clearly past there best, Martin, Simpson and King. 

Supplement them with promising but currently league 1 standard players such as Bakinson, Pring, Semenyo, Scott, Tanner, Atkinson. 

Now add no creativity or dynamic forwards and wingers and you can see we badly need an injection of quality. Can't expect to release a dozen first players in the summer and it have no impact. Utterly wasted our wages on overpaid shite. 

I think its a bit harsh on the defence, if your midfield is hapless then you can have the best midfielders in the world and your still getting beat.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

I dont think there was a stunned reaction to pato going in the summer, he was a decent servant to us, but really, it was his time to move on. I dont think though that this was affected by finances when we were offering contracts to king and simpson and spending 2 million on atkinson and tanner.

I do, but we can have differing opinions.

What I start to struggle with is players like Palmer and O’Dowda (and Vyner until last night) not featuring.  I’m not saying they should start (easy Tiger!!), but O’Dowda isn’t even getting a look-in off the bench, Palmer not even on the bench.  They were players who would’ve been involved in the discussions about whether we could afford to offer Pato a deal….imho.

But like the Fishing Trip on Gavin & Stacey, what was said in the dressing room after Forest.

That just looks bad.  In an ideal world we’d understand why.

[GrahamC]

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I do, but we can have differing opinions.

What I start to struggle with is players like Palmer and O’Dowda (and Vyner until last night) not featuring.  I’m not saying they should start (easy Tiger!!), but O’Dowda isn’t even getting a look-in off the bench, Palmer not even on the bench.  They were players who would’ve been involved in the discussions about whether we could afford to offer Pato a deal….imho.

But like the Fishing Trip on Gavin & Stacey, what was said in the dressing room after Forest.

That just looks bad.  In an ideal world we’d understand why.

Think it appears that in the cases of Palmer & O’Dowda having seen them in action he is attempting to freeze them out & hope they will move on (even on loan) in January.

We will never know if he would have kept Paterson if these 2 were also OoC at the same time but for all the clamour from a few now my recollection is Walsh (who by the way has done absolutely nothing at Swansea so far) was the one that most people wanted to stay, not Paterson.

Don’t get the Vyner business, maybe he wanted to see a bit more from him in training? Possibly last night’s selection  was “needs must”?  
As a versatile, relatively low wage player, he would have always been in my 18.