Mr Lansdown Just Stick With It!

[Red Exile]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Both those clubs made the most of their new stadiums and struck while the iron was hot. We had a massive opportunity in the summer of 2015 to back a title winning manager and squad, and as everyone knows we spectacularly blew it. 

I think this is it. What an opportunity we had.

And then Lee Johnson was such an ego trip of an appointment...'I'll show them...'

There will of course be many who say that it's all very well to criticise with the benefit of hindsight, but it's been possible to take a cold hard look at Steve Lansdown's tenure for years. He gets a very easy ride, expectations are so low. Even when he himself raises them with his Prem talk people let him off. His money blinds.

If I wanted to admire great contemporary architecture I wouldn't beat a path to Ashton Gate, nice though the stand he named after himself might be. If I wanted to be entertained by a football team I wouldn't waste a lot of time at Ashton Gate either. It's been dire for most of the past 20 years.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red Exile

[BCFCinNW6]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

At last someone speaks the truth

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I doubt a single Cardiff fan would want to swap places with us. In the last 15 years they've won promotion to the Prem twice and been in an FA Cup and League Cup final. 

Every day of the week.

I despise Cardiff but they have achieved far more than us in the SL era & what would they be swapping it for? A cup run & nearly making the playoffs a few times since 2008..

Hull are a mess & possibly heading back to L1 but I’m not sure they would swap for the 2 seasons they had in The Prem, either.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

Football in the top 2 tiers is a highly expensive business with no guarantees- albeit had he gone for it in past times, we might have shot up to the PL- thinking in January 2008 and failing that, 2008/09 to push on from Wembley.

How much did Chansiri put into SWFC? Or Morris into Derby? From might I add, a stronger and notably stronger respectively starting position than SL when he took over. What have Reading achieved for their overspending from 2017/18 onwards .Again a playoff season in 2016/17 and then the new owners could give it a go for a year or 2...above us on GD that's where.

QPR had a number of billionaires in charge from 2010 to a few years ago- they must be in the PL on a regular...oh no, wait- they're back at this level and had some seasons of struggle or relative struggle in recent times.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Both those clubs made the most of their new stadiums and struck while the iron was hot. We had a massive opportunity in the summer of 2015 to back a title winning manager and squad, and as everyone knows we spectacularly blew it. 

I hear what you're saying about mid-table budget. Under LJ we were about 14th/15th highest in terms of wages. Which is why I consistently made the point at the time, that his top half finish (11th?) and 8th placed finish were decent, all considered. 

Brighton invested rather heavily agreed, Swansea dunno how heavily they invested but they had a great unique model, not so much in terms of replacing players like Brentford but replacing and indeed upgrading on coaches in a way that fit their philosophy- Martinez was the beginning probably, Laudrup's departure the end.

Struck when iron was hot? Agree, plenty of sides have. We did not.

FFP was a consideration for us on promotion, I think we probably had another £3-4m of headroom that season, any kinda breach during that first season back, and it would have been an embargo in 2016/17 if not promoted in 2015/16- those rules remained in play, and 2015/16 was the final season of them. Perhaps it would have been an embargo in Jan 2017 but bear in mind, the two sets of rules crossed over at this time so a big spending spree could have seen us hemmed in in 2016/17 in any case when the 3 year one was activated.

Who would you have signed- what would your transfer strategy have been- in Summer 2015 while remaining within the £13m allowance, combined with regard for 2016/17 as the 1st year of 3 year assessment?

Nottingham Forest and Blackburn are two interesting examples, it took them some time to recover from their embargoes- in fact it probably helped to relegate the latter, and in the case of the former it lasted about 18 months until they got back to balance.

Spend for promotion one option I suppose to bypass it...talking first year up under Cotts.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

As of now though, the direction of travel is back towards League One.

And if you are impressed with a couple of promotions from League One and getting in the Championship play-offs 13 years ago, then wait until you find out what a couple of clubs over the river have achieved in the past 20 years, both on similar budgets to ours...I would list Swansea and Cardiff's multiple promotions to the Premier League, major cup final appearances and European football but it would make me too ******* angry. 

FFP didn't exist when Cardiff went up, at least not in the same way. Swansea too although their managerial strategy perhaps helped to compensate for a relative lack of spending power.

[Red Exile]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Football in the top 2 tiers is a highly expensive business with no guarantees- albeit had he gone for it in past times, we might have shot up to the PL- thinking in January 2008 and failing that, 2008/09 to push on from Wembley.

How much did Chansiri put into SWFC? Or Morris into Derby? From might I add, a stronger and notably stronger respectively starting position than SL when he took over. What have Reading achieved for their overspending from 2017/18 onwards .Again a playoff season in 2016/17 and then the new owners could give it a go for a year or 2...above us on GD that's where.

QPR had a number of billionaires in charge from 2010 to a few years ago- they must be in the PL on a regular...oh no, wait- they're back at this level and had some seasons of struggle or relative struggle in recent times.

You're being very generous in your assessments of Lansdown. I mean, it's great we haven't gone bust, but....

Had anyone walking away from Wembley in 2008 been told that for all Lansdown's cash 13 years later we'd  have had a relegation and not been back I think they'd have been horrified! I've met SL several times. Decent enough chap. His critics don't, though, have to earn the right to criticise by offering an alternative strategy. We are not remotely privy to what goes on at the top of the club. It's a firmly closed shop. Lansdown has taken little advice, and that he's taken has clearly been poor. Other clubs have been better run and as a consequence more successful. If you want a prime example I give you Burnley, a club with a leadership structure - at the time they went up and managed to stay up - a world away from anything SL would tolerate. They had, would you believe it, a Board of Directors!

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red Exile

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

You’ve missed out third division play-off finalists in 2004!! ... and your post seems to ignore the fact that Mr Lansdown was a Bristol City Board member from 1996 to 2011, holding the position of Chairman from 2002 to 2011, so to suggest he had nothing to do with Danny Wilson’s appointment cannot be correct... still, these minor points pale into insignificance when you read on the official club website that under Mr Lansdown’s ownership, City won the Sky Bet Championship title in 2015 with 99 points!!! So I must have missed our time up in the premier league - how did we get on?! So, do you still only believe what you read on the official site @Robbored ???!!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

You're being very generous in your assessments of Lansdown. I mean, it's great we haven't gone bust, but....

Had anyone walking away from Wembley in 2008 been told that for all Lansdown's cash 13 years later we'd  have had a relegation and not been back I think they'd have been horrified! I've met SL several times. Decent enough chap. His critics don't, though, have to earn the right to criticise by offering an alternative strategy. We are not remotely privy to what goes on at the top of the club. It's a firmly closed shop. Lansdown has taken little advice, and that he's taken has clearly been poor. Other clubs have been better run and as a consequence more successful. If you want a prime example I give you Burnley, a club with a leadership structure - at the time they went up and managed to stay up - a world away from anything SL would tolerate.

Okay thanks- Burnley seems a great example, they also struck when the iron was hot- which we have not. They went up in 2008/09 and arguably the momentum of reaching the Carling Cup semi finals- eliminating 2 PL sides and losing to a 3rd in the semis, how familiar does that sound helped spur them on and up through the playoffs they went!

I wonder if our Cup experience in 2017/18, combined with our Cup runs or experience in the years that preceded it could have propelled us to an unlikely playoff win in 2017/18? That was a year we should absolutely have made the playoffs IMO.

Parachute Payments and a frugal policy in the PL helped to set them up for some time to come. 4 years, that helps to stabilise a hell of a lot- they went up again in 2013/14...and guess what, down they came- back up in 2015/16 but they used the Parachute Payment system very well and made it stick in 2016/17 and still they are there.

My overarching point though, is that money is no guarantee- going bust isn't the case with most of the examples I gave either, with the possible exception of Derby- the position of them and the position of SWFC when their new owners/investors arrived in 2015 was a strong one to push on from. Went well...although it nearly worked as well, both lost a playoff final at this level. Risk v Reward?

I also would ask @Kid in the Riot the following.

You often talk of new investment. However that does not change the underlying Profit and Loss position as such. They will still be able to spend if they wish to, up to what SL can spend now if he wishes to- up to allowable limits- so in the short and perhaps medium term, I would ask what difference you believe it would make? There is no magic reset with new investment or ownership.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red Exile]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay thanks- Burnley seems a great example, they also struck when the iron was hot- which we have not. They went up in 2008/09 and arguably the momentum of reaching the Carling Cup semi finals- eliminating 2 PL sides and losing to a 3rd in the semis, how familiar does that sound helped spur them on and up through the playoffs they went!

Parachute Payments and a frugal policy in the PL helped to set them up for some time to come. 4 years, that helps to stabilise a hell of a lot- they went up again in 2013/14...and guess what, down they came- back up in 2015/16 but they used the Parachute Payment system very well and made it stick in 2016/17 and still they are there.

My overarching point though, is that money is no guarantee- going bust isn't the case with most of the examples I gave either, with the possible exception of Derby- the position of them and the position of SWFC when their new owners/investors arrived in 2015 was a strong one to push on from. Went well...although it nearly worked as well, both lost a playoff final at this level. Risk v Reward?

I take your point, which is a good one. But I mention Burnley because I recall a discussion on here years ago about their structure. I'd met their Chairman and one of their directors at an event. Humble, down to earth, wealthy but very much first among equals, a bunch of local businessmen with a love of the club, all supporting and challenging each other. The contrast with SL's City could not have been greater. Their approach seemed sustainable not in the financial sense but in the sense of involving the local community. It wasn't open to the accusation, however unfair, that it was all a bit of an ego trip. And as it happens it was far more successful. They were, also as it happens, passionate football people. I don't believe that SL is a football person...or, frankly, even much of a City fan in the sense that most of us are.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red Exile

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

I take your point, which is a good one. But I mention Burnley because I recall a discussion on here years ago about their structure. I'd met their Chairman and one of their directors at an event. Humble, down to earth, wealthy but very first among equals, a bunch of local businessmen with a love of the club, all supporting and challenging each other. The contrast with SL's City could not have been greater. Their approach seemed sustainable not in the financial sense but in the sense of involving the local community. It wasn't open to the accusation, however unfair, that it was all a bit of an ego trip. And as it happens it was far more successful. They were, also as it happens, passionate football people. I don't believe that SL is a football person...or, frankly, even much of a City fan in the sense that most of us are.

That's a very interesting insight, thanks.

The behind the scenes there sounds interesting- pushing each other on, challenging- we've possibly missed that here, fair points- SL's way or the highway at times? They were fans then, the Burnley owners?

Whether SL is a fan of us- certainly doesn't have a football background- I'll leave for others to comment on, never met him so can't really offer any view on that.

Certainly he's not beyond criticism though, SL...I would question why he let LJ sign and sell so many players- I appreciate some of it due to financial reasons but I always thought the churn in his time here was shocking, wasteful off the pitch and destroys cohesion on it. Possibly down to Ashton as well.

Not pushing on in January 2008, a wasted opportunity- could be argued 2008/09 as well...then was GJ the man to get the best from Sno, Hartley, Sabario etc in 2009/10? Although his record would suggest keeping him the only realistic option.

Not making the playoffs at least once between 2017/18 and 2019/20, but especially the 2017/18 season- that was not ideal yet we could arguably have pushed a bit harder in Jan 2019 without going nuts- could one more striker have made the difference?

Or one more genuine CM given Hegeler had gone through injury and Korey missed most of the season- to not flog Brownhill and Pack to death or put a 3rd CM in there to ease the burden a bit.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red Exile]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's a very interesting insight, thanks.

The behind the scenes there sounds interesting- pushing each other on, challenging- we've possibly missed that here, fair points- SL's way or the highway at times? They were fans then, the Burnley owners?

Whether SL is a fan of us- certainly doesn't have a football background- I'll leave for others to comment on, never met him so can't really offer any view on that.

Certainly he's not beyond criticism though, SL...I would question why he let LJ sign and sell so many players- I appreciate some of it due to financial reasons but I always thought the churn in his time here was shocking, wasteful off the pitch and destroys cohesion on it. Possibly down to Ashton as well.

Not pushing on in January 2008, a wasted opportunity- could be argued 2008/09 as well...then was GJ the man to get the best from Sno, Hartley, Sabario etc in 2009/10? Although his record would suggest keeping him the only realistic option.

Not making the playoffs at least once between 2017/18 and 2019/20, but especially the 2017/18 season- that was not ideal yet we could arguably have pushed a bit harder in Jan 2019 without going nuts- could one more striker have made the difference?

Or one more genuine CM given Hegeler had gone through injury and Korey missed most of the season- to not flog Brownhill and Pack to death or put a 3rd CM in there to ease the burden a bit.

To be honest I think whether one more signing might or might not have made a difference makes for a good discussion but - to my mind - misses the point. Lee Johnson should never have been the man to succeed Cotts, any more than Tinnion was the man to replace Danny Wilson, or Millen to (after the Coppell debacle) replace GJ...what was needed in 2015/16 was the appointment of an experienced manager with a track record of achieving success at Championship level. Any number of folk on here questioned all of those appointments, and that of Mark Ashton, we live with the consequences.

EDIT: I have reached the conclusion that I can barely be arsed to care any more...it's rinse and repeat...again.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red Exile

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

Depending on which side you're bread's buttered you can make the comparison either way for us versus other clubs, successful or otherwise.

As for other clubs wishing to be 'in our position'? Well the majority no doubt wouldn't. We've had very little to cheer on the pitch for 20 years, so very few would swap for that. 

But i'm sure, when you look at the position we are in; recent stadium development, new training ground, stable owner, relatively financially stable club, commercial viability, catchment area, been established in the championship for 6 years etc...i'm sure there are many who would and do envy us, perhaps not in on field success, but in other ways.

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

I do sort of see where you're coming from - looking to the long term future, I'd perhaps rather be in our position than many other teams due to our ultimate overall potential.

However, if we're simply looking back on the last couple of decades, it's very very hard to make an argument that we'd be the preferable choice.
How many Hull and Cardiff fans are on their forums saying "Were those seasons of success really worth it when we could have had what Bristol City have?". 

[Fuber]

7 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

We have no idea if Pearson is the right person for the job. So far his team are getting worse the longer he works with them. 

Which coincides with him sacking the two coaches the most hands on with the players; he gave them a chance, they've failed; he's a delegator more than hands on, he's since learned he couldn't trust the coaches under him.

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Which coincides with him sacking the two coaches the most hands on with the players; he gave them a chance, they've failed; he's a delegator more than hands on, he's since learned he couldn't trust the coaches under him.

Guess we will very soon see if it was the coaches fault or not. 

[Fuber]

19 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Guess we will very soon see if it was the coaches fault or not. 

Will see, I'll be judging it over the next 5 games once we have similar players available.

I have a feeling losing James when we have - let's hope its not too serious - could severely hamper us. As I personally think losing Nagy is going to be tougher on us than we may have realised, especially with King injured, and Bakinson on his current form; as in nowhere near good enough for this level this season.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Fuber

[Wiltshire robin]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Football in the top 2 tiers is a highly expensive business with no guarantees- albeit had he gone for it in past times, we might have shot up to the PL- thinking in January 2008 and failing that, 2008/09 to push on from Wembley.

How much did Chansiri put into SWFC? Or Morris into Derby? From might I add, a stronger and notably stronger respectively starting position than SL when he took over. What have Reading achieved for their overspending from 2017/18 onwards .Again a playoff season in 2016/17 and then the new owners could give it a go for a year or 2...above us on GD that's where.

QPR had a number of billionaires in charge from 2010 to a few years ago- they must be in the PL on a regular...oh no, wait- they're back at this level and had some seasons of struggle or relative struggle in recent times.

But all of those teams have had at least some success to talk about , we’ve had absolutely f all (unless anyone thinks the jpt and league 1 is an achievement for the top club in one of England’s biggest cities)

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

Will see, I'll be judging it over the next 5 games once we have similar players available.

I have a feeling losing James when we have - let's hope its not too serious - could severely hamper us. As I personally think losing Nagy is going to be tougher on us than we may have realised, especially with King injured, and Bakinson on his current form; as in nowhere near good enough for this level this season.

I thought losing Nagy wasn't a great thing at all IMO, albeit I understand the wage saving from a financial perspective but he showed some versatility towards the back end of last season- narrow right, goal and assist v Luton, goal or assist- unsure which- at Wycombe. Narrow right could have helped us out in midfield, being one who could go central and a bit wider. Even if not spectacular, he could have offered a bit of stability.

Plays strongly for Hungary as we know- was he not fairly solid/steady at Wembley not long ago?

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Wiltshire robin said:

But all of those teams have had at least some success to talk about , we’ve had absolutely f all (unless anyone thinks the jpt and league 1 is an achievement for the top club in one of England’s biggest cities)

If we mean over history or just in certain time periods, agree.

Historically we are surely significant underachievers. In the last 10-20 years though I do sort of to an extent stand by what I said about football being an increasingly expensive business- the Championship eg is a money pit. Although not everywhere and there are notable examples to point to of sides who surpassed us with less- Swansea a fine example. Brentford too.

I don't know, I'm somewhere in the middle I guess.

[IAmNick]

The thing is this recent period, and Gary's in the Championship before it (so 2008 onwards) have been more successful than about 30 years before it.

We actually had better finishes last time we were in the Championship (4th, 10th, 10th) compared to this time (only one top 10 finish).

It doesn't really feel good, let alone exciting though because of our "slow and steady" approach where 1 position further up the table is a pat on the back. It never feels like we're pushing on, driving for promotion, and going for it... we just bumble around in a reasonable area and hope we squeeze over the line (and inevitably don't).

It's football, give me the boom and bust of Hull/Cardiff/Swansea any day imo.

I'd rather be having an extra few pints in celebration, then crying into them 2 years later than having one to numb me before every game for about 10 years on the trot.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, lenred said:

Said it before numerous times. Give me their journey over ours any time of day or night! Imagine the memories they’ve had over the time SL has been in charge.  Maybe Cov’s good times were slightly before but still. Would take any of their recent (25 year) history over ours. 

5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I doubt a single Cardiff fan would want to swap places with us. In the last 15 years they've won promotion to the Prem twice and been in an FA Cup and League Cup final. 

I agree with you both to a large extent…..even having an owner who tucked his trousers under his armpits.

There is more than one way to run a club, plan for success, achieve success etc.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

There has not been a strategy . It has been random and superficial . It has changed with the wind. When it worked we were smug , when it did not work we were bemused because we had no idea what had happened .

There has not been a playing identity . It has been random and superficial . It has changed with the wind. When it worked we were smug , when it did not work we were bemused because we had no idea what had happened .

[Rebounder]

I always feel that he's made a rod for his own back. 

Every time we come up the talk is always about promotion and that sets a tone of expectation and promise. Of course this has to be the aim, but I am sure that if he had said that the first aim is to build and maintain a solid championship club with a positive playing identity that this would have been accepted. 

Ultimately that would have been more than we'd ever had in my lifetime as a "big" league one club and it may well have clicked at one point resulting in a promotion. I always feel that talk of promotion was a big arrogant in a league like this and I am not sure that many other clubs our size talk this way and some of the "smaller" ones that passed us did so methodically without fanfare. 

I hate the rebuild now as I feel it's sucked the little bit of life that was left from when I started going in the mid-90's. It's the same problem that Cardiff and Swansea have now. It is no coincidence that games against Cardiff feel shit compared to past, but I also recognise that the games moved on and this is probably the only way to survive. I am sure that there are many who would hate to go back to the old and they are probably the future and are more likely to spend in other areas of the ground. 

He has shown a disdain to lower income fans imo, but billionaire owners often don't understand this reality so he's not unique,  and he has also often got it wrong when it comes to fans who want to make an atmosphere. Problem is that people will sacrifice a lot of that for on the field success/excitement as they did at Cardiff, but that has not happened.

The team is as sterile as the ground - Can you see any future Murray's, Tinnion's, Gow's or Gus Ceasers in this team? It doesn't even have to be linked to success as Albert Adomah proves. Fans like players that get them off their seat, or are absolute battlers who achieve a certain level of performance. 

Also though I am just getting old and the "characters" as I see them in football are slowly dying in the face of an ultra professional, public facing and highly athletic billion dollar industry. 

Went massively off topic there I realise, but I do respect Lansdown for what he has done and I am aware we could have much worse, but he is also part of the problem with football in my opinion. I don't even mind the Bristol sport stuff as I can kind of see what he's trying to do there having also done a tour of Barcelona's stadium myself once.

Do feel it's better the devil you know, but even if it did go tits up I am sure there would still be people around to fight for its existence. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Rebounder

[Rocking Red Cyril]

SL has given us great Ashton gate and held to he clubs finances together . Yes we need players and quick. But sure FFP has a big effect on that. 

Always red

 

COYR

[Sir Geoff]

6 hours ago, Rebounder said:

I always feel that he's made a rod for his own back. 

Every time we come up the talk is always about promotion and that sets a tone of expectation and promise. Of course this has to be the aim, but I am sure that if he had said that the first aim is to build and maintain a solid championship club with a positive playing identity that this would have been accepted. 

Ultimately that would have been more than we'd ever had in my lifetime as a "big" league one club and it may well have clicked at one point resulting in a promotion. I always feel that talk of promotion was a big arrogant in a league like this and I am not sure that many other clubs our size talk this way and some of the "smaller" ones that passed us did so methodically without fanfare. 

I hate the rebuild now as I feel it's sucked the little bit of life that was left from when I started going in the mid-90's. It's the same problem that Cardiff and Swansea have now. It is no coincidence that games against Cardiff feel shit compared to past, but I also recognise that the games moved on and this is probably the only way to survive. I am sure that there are many who would hate to go back to the old and they are probably the future and are more likely to spend in other areas of the ground. 

He has shown a disdain to lower income fans imo, but billionaire owners often don't understand this reality so he's not unique,  and he has also often got it wrong when it comes to fans who want to make an atmosphere. Problem is that people will sacrifice a lot of that for on the field success/excitement as they did at Cardiff, but that has not happened.

The team is as sterile as the ground - Can you see any future Murray's, Tinnion's, Gow's or Gus Ceasers in this team? It doesn't even have to be linked to success as Albert Adomah proves. Fans like players that get them off their seat, or are absolute battlers who achieve a certain level of performance. 

Also though I am just getting old and the "characters" as I see them in football are slowly dying in the face of an ultra professional, public facing and highly athletic billion dollar industry. 

Went massively off topic there I realise, but I do respect Lansdown for what he has done and I am aware we could have much worse, but he is also part of the problem with football in my opinion. I don't even mind the Bristol sport stuff as I can kind of see what he's trying to do there having also done a tour of Barcelona's stadium myself once.

Do feel it's better the devil you know, but even if it did go tits up I am sure there would still be people around to fight for its existence. 

Yes we have 11 of them in the team....in fact Gus Ceaser was so poor he probably wouldn't even get in this side.

[GrahamC]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

There has not been a playing identity . It has been random and superficial . It has changed with the wind. When it worked we were smug , when it did not work we were bemused because we had no idea what had happened .

Depends how far you want to go back, but I’d argue there has been, but it has entirely depended on who is the manager/head coach, what there certainly hasn’t been is a consistent one.

This leads on to recruitment which has been haphazard & scattergun, obvious examples being Adelakun & Watkins (it is arguable we needed either, certainly not both), the Szmodics, Palmer, Paterson all at the same time nonsense & very many others.

Bigger picture here (& this has certainly been said before) is SL has employed people in a football sense who have performed so poorly that Hargreaves Lansdown would have never been the success that it is if it happened there.

Fundamentally he just doesn’t understand the football industry, which is fine, but his judgment on who to trust because of this is largely what is holding us back.

Whatever anyone’s views on Pearson, it is typical of us that we get exactly the right “type” when someone else has already spent all the money & we are in an era that reminds me most of when Osman took over from Denis Smith, “here’s £100k Russell, now build us a team that can stay up”..

[Waconda]

13 hours ago, Fuber said:

Which coincides with him sacking the two coaches the most hands on with the players; he gave them a chance, they've failed; he's a delegator more than hands on, he's since learned he couldn't trust the coaches under him.

Are you sure they were sacked ?

Would check that - IMO.

[Waconda]

12 hours ago, Fuber said:

Will see, I'll be judging it over the next 5 games once we have similar players available.

I have a feeling losing James when we have - let's hope its not too serious - could severely hamper us. As I personally think losing Nagy is going to be tougher on us than we may have realised, especially with King injured, and Bakinson on his current form; as in nowhere near good enough for this level this season.

Agree with this.

Nagy would be very useful to us at the moment.

Seems he was determined to leave though.

[Pezo]

16 hours ago, Red Exile said:

And then Lee Johnson was such an ego trip of an appointment...'I'll show them...'

nice though the stand he named after himself might be.

He has stated that he thought it was too early for LJ in his management career but was convinced by LJ eventually, hardly sounds like an ego trip.

He didn't name the stand, he actually said something along the lines of if someone names a stand after me I will fire them. It was a board decision - a board he no longer sits on.

Other than getting basic facts wrong your post makes quite a bit of sense.

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Depends how far you want to go back, but I’d argue there has been, but it has entirely depended on who is the manager/head coach, what there certainly hasn’t been is a consistent one.

This leads on to recruitment which has been haphazard & scattergun, obvious examples being Adelakun & Watkins (it is arguable we needed either, certainly not both), the Szmodics, Palmer, Paterson all at the same time nonsense & very many others.

Bigger picture here (& this has certainly been said before) is SL has employed people in a football sense who have performed so poorly that Hargreaves Lansdown would have never been the success that it is if it happened there.

Fundamentally he just doesn’t understand the football industry, which is fine, but his judgment on who to trust because of this is largely what is holding us back.

Whatever anyone’s views on Pearson, it is typical of us that we get exactly the right “type” when someone else has already spent all the money & we are in an era that reminds me most of when Osman took over from Denis Smith, “here’s £100k Russell, now build us a team that can stay up”..

Back to Cotts for a consistent playing identity.

I don’t think LJ had one.  He had short periods of success with lots of different identities, and short periods of failure with those and others.  Even the autumn of 17/18 never turned into “right, I’ve got my philosophy, everything is now geared to that”.

I bet if you asked most fans where we fell down in 17/18, it was knackering Smith and Pack, because when he rotated Brownhill centrally he lost what he brought wide, and when he put Bryan back to LB he lost what he brought down that left side.

He recruited in the summer of 2018.

Webster to replace Flint,

Weimann to replace Reid,

Assume O’Dowda was the Bryan replacement, which was fair enough at the time.

For me the combo of Reid / Paterson was consigned to the bin, because he had to accommodate Diedhiou, his record signing at the time, who didn’t fit the system he got going!

But tye obvious omission was the central midfielder to compete with Pack and Smith.  If he felt that Brownhill was that player, then was Watkins / Adelakun really the RM/RW replacement for Brownhill?  The answer is no!

That season was in fact the lowest number of players signed and lowest fees paid in his 4 seasons here.