Pearson & Fleming : OUT

[Street red]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t disagree with most of that.

But my worry going back 3/4 seasons is - what do you do when there are no players left to sell?  My other fear was the transfer market collapsing.  I obviously want expecting Covid, but always feared a tv deal collapse.

When I see City with costs of £60m but Millwall, Preston, etc doing as well (better?) than us on £30m I think it means we got too big for our boots.

We are now having to cut back seriously to avoid FFP next season.  That’s hamstrung us massively this summer.

The answer is to recruit well / smartly, develop your own players.

What concerns me is that we got to big for our boots and signed Kalas for 8 million we shouldn't of been in a position to sign a player for that figure even though we made profit on Webster.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

3 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

That’s not true about Coppell he left because of  SL’s meddling . Millen more or less said so on a podcast . 
This issue you raise about the wrong manager being appointed is very narrow minded. These problems didn’t start with Pearson , they started under LJ & mark ashton . It was the same mistakes made under mciines . Please tell me who appointed these people ? 
Also as for the dog about getting things wrong. I would of thought you’d know all about that. Nobody’s perfect. 

Yep- happy to grant you that.

We see things differently....I never felt a relegation season was upon us with LJ but I've felt it has become inevitable under NP- where the blame lies is a long discussion and is nowhere near as black and white as you maintain -imo. It still comes down to the fact that I hope we appoint a new manager before its too late. Pearson will go- it's just a matter of when and whether damage limitation can be achieved in the meantime.

[Ivorguy]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t disagree with most of that.

But my worry going back 3/4 seasons is - what do you do when there are no players left to sell?  My other fear was the transfer market collapsing.  I obviously want expecting Covid, but always feared a tv deal collapse.

When I see City with costs of £60m but Millwall, Preston, etc doing as well (better?) than us on £30m I think it means we got too big for our boots.

We are now having to cut back seriously to avoid FFP next season.  That’s hamstrung us massively this summer.

The answer is to recruit well / smartly, develop your own players.

The final sentence of yours is where we have consistently failed for years.  No easy way to put this right.  Local lads signing for clubs outside the city, poor to non existent signing from non league, clear failings in development of players we do have.

[Bris Red]

15 minutes ago, Street red said:

What concerns me is that we got to big for our boots and signed Kalas for 8 million we shouldn't of been in a position to sign a player for that figure even though we made profit on Webster.

Was a huge amount of money for a club our size, i still maintain that Chelsea had our pants down a bit really we probably paid £3 or 4 million too much for him IMO.

In Lansdown and the boards defence though they probably thought they were doing the right thing at the time by making a big money statement like that, you could say they were appeasing the fanbase as lets be honest if we hadn’t had a big summer of spending people would have been asking where the hell has the £20 mill for Webster gone? It’s a tricky one that ultimately boils down to very bad Recuitment in the summer of 2019. Plenty of money in the pot that was spent horrendously badly.

Edited November 7, 2021 by bris red

[Street red]

8 minutes ago, bris red said:

Was a huge amount of money for a club our size, i still maintain that Chelsea had our pants down a bit really we probably paid £3 or 4 million too much for him IMO.

We stupidly paid it and yes Chelsea definitely did but add to that Palmer and dasilva and that's a fair bit of money,You can also add signing on fees and wages to that and I wonder what the exact figure to this day is that we've paid In wages since they've signed.. They've not exactly set the world alight.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Street red

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

For me it’s worrying that with the £m’s we made from selling players we wracked up £41.4m of losses in that period 15/16-19/20…5 sets of accounts. All with MA as COO / CEO.  All with SL as Owner and JL as Chairman.  All with LJ as Head-Coach.

Without those sales we lost £117.2m.

Let that sink in!

Draw your own conclusions.

This "we" thing is a bit confusing. I've checked my bank account over the same period and am jolly relieved to report that I don't seem to have lost anything.... other than the prices of season tickets ( which I have considered as an annual "loss" since about Joe Jordan's time and pre SL) a number of shirts for me and the kids and a very large quantity of overpriced overly warm and flat alcohol along with some dubious burgers... particularly the boiled ones which were then fried.

As for "we" losing money, it's SL's loss and he categorically didn't make it from 'us'. He just invested heavily in a club  which has been probably more pain than any gain for him and his family. I think we'd all be very aware if some other billionaire was ready and willing to bank roll a club with our history and fan base- it may well be that we will find this out sooner than later?

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Was very good wasn’t it.

Shame we paid a lot on the other side of the transfer market too.

We spent £59.35m in fees, not inc loan fees, agent fees (from various sources £5m(ish)), relocation fees.

We spent £108.4m on wages (football only, not BCFC Ltd)

Agree that we spent a lot, but even at the higher end, and this isn't knocking us so much more the environment.

At the higher end, our wage bill was only in and around midtable as far as divisional wage bills go, albeit I am taking the club as a whole and all aspects of the wage bill ie NI etc.

The system is crazy. It's a League in which over 100% of turnover in recent years has goes on wages alone!

All the same we certainly could and should have spent better, in all areas.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, bris red said:

Was a huge amount of money for a club our size, i still maintain that Chelsea had our pants down a bit really we probably paid £3 or 4 million too much for him IMO.

In Lansdown and the boards defence though they probably thought they were doing the right thing at the time by making a big money statement like that, you could say they were appeasing the fanbase as lets be honest if we hadn’t had a big summer of spending people would have been asking where the hell has the £20 mill for Webster gone? It’s a tricky one that ultimately boils down to very bad Recuitment in the summer of 2019. Plenty of money in the pot that was spent horrendously badly.

Yep. We spent £25m that summer…and still needed to sign players outside the window.

14 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

This "we" thing is a bit confusing. I've checked my bank account over the same period and am jolly relieved to report that I don't seem to have lost anything.... other than the prices of season tickets ( which I have considered as an annual "loss" since about Joe Jordan's time and pre SL) a number of shirts for me and the kids and a very large quantity of overpriced overly warm and flat alcohol along with some dubious burgers... particularly the boiled ones which were then fried.

As for "we" losing money, it's SL's loss and he categorically didn't make it from 'us'. He just invested heavily in a club  which has been probably more pain than any gain for him and his family. I think we'd all be very aware if some other billionaire was ready and willing to bank roll a club with our history and fan base- it may well be that we will find this out sooner than later?

Not sure a post arguing about the use of the word “we” is really the point is it?  You know exactly why the word was used.

Ultimately us fans are contributing 50% (£8m of £16m) of the pure football club revenues and about 80% (£11.4m of £14m) of Ashton Gate revenues.  The rest is football league and commercial revenues.

So “we” are offsetting the losses if we don’t watch City….even if “they” aren’t “our” losses per se.

[steviestevieneville]

9 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Yep- happy to grant you that.

We see things differently....I never felt a relegation season was upon us with LJ but I've felt it has become inevitable under NP- where the blame lies is a long discussion and is nowhere near as black and white as you maintain -imo. It still comes down to the fact that I hope we appoint a new manager before its too late. Pearson will go- it's just a matter of when and whether damage limitation can be achieved in the meantime.

Genuine question here.

Its well documented about the length of the decline & the family silver being sold & replaced with tin. With this in mind. 
Who would you like to see come in & how would they get a time out of this squad . It runs much deeper than the manager in my opinion 

[Rocky]

 

[Charlie BCFC]

I’m not going to disagree with people for saying Pearson out, still Pearson in personally but these next few games are important for him. Lansdown out shouts are ******* ridiculous, be careful for what you wish for as the grass isn’t always greener. 

[Jefferz]

On 06/11/2021 at 16:41, Wanderingred said:

Where’s Jimmy Hill when you need him?

 

On 06/11/2021 at 17:23, sglosbcfc said:

Hilarious that many of the fans that were desperate for us to land Pearson are now calling for his head after he has had only one transfer window and 8 months in charge! Today as well as missing Pearson, we were without Baker, Atkinson, Semenyo, King and James. As for telling Lansdown to **** off, that is embarrassing. Blackburn is a huge game and I expect a changed City team to take the three points COYR

Yes, but on arriving at the club he made repeatedly bullish comments about the number of injuries in the squad and how it was a result of culture, mismanagement by medical/fitness staff and incompetence. Live by the sword die by the sword

[mozo]

It's tricky because it appears to be sacking season and people are becoming available. Plus you get two weeks break to get the new gaffer on the training ground.

But...I think it's harsh to sack anyone after the Coventry game. Let's see us when we have James, Atkinson and Williams.

[Hampshire reds]

3 or 4 games is a big gamble. Blackburn,stoke and sheff utd. Big ask with current set up to get much out of these games. A new voice and ideas is desperately needed

[hertsexile]

I not sure entering the sack race is a good idea. A move to bring in Shakespeare would be worth thinking about. The main problem at city at the moment is player attitude along with an injury prone squad that lacks leadership on the field. As Cotts once said “ When the team crosses the white line he can only hope they follow the game plan “ So far this season we have lacked this ability! 

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

3 or 4 games is a big gamble. Blackburn,stoke and sheff utd. Big ask with current set up to get much out of these games. A new voice and ideas is desperately needed

Interested to see you post this, as it’s not like you haven’t said some variant on it about 60 times in the last couple of months.

[The Bard]

11 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

3 or 4 games is a big gamble. Blackburn,stoke and sheff utd. Big ask with current set up to get much out of these games. A new voice and ideas is desperately needed

 

17 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Interested to see you post this, as it’s not like you haven’t said some variant on it about 60 times in the last couple of months.

You certainly can't accuse him of inconsistency. 

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

 

You certainly can't accuse him of inconsistency. 

Boring though, isn’t it?

Nothing ever constructive (fairly sure though he has suggested Frank Lampard as Nige’s replacement!).

Pretty much every manager gets sacked in the end, so repeatedly saying this virtually from day one & then after every single game (except Barnsley) is ******* tedious.

[The Bard]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Boring though, isn’t it?

Nothing ever constructive (fairly sure though he has suggested Frank Lampard as Nige’s replacement!).

Pretty much every manager gets sacked in the end, so repeatedly saying this virtually from day one & then after every single game (except Barnsley) is ******* tedious.

Yep

[Clutton Caveman]

On 06/11/2021 at 17:08, CotswoldRed said:

Pearson has had nearly a year and his team can't pass or retain possession for much more than 3-4 seconds, normally. 

That is enough for me. 

They called it the high performance centre so delivery drivers would never confuse it with Ashton Gate. 

Hate to say it but I think we have to go down, ditch most of the squad and coaching staff and start again

Frankly I would rather watch our kids with a couple of decent tryers playing under a positive coach in League 1 than being bored to death week after week in the Championship.

[nellie]

Just remember you cant sack someone thats off sick 

[Rich]

On 07/11/2021 at 20:02, Mr Popodopolous said:

The FFP position in 2015/16 possibly did not allow us to spend as Cotts would have wanted in Summer 2015.

I agree with much of what you say but is there an alternative scenario in which Cotts parks his ambitions a bit for a year and then as the infrastructure and the attendances rise then he can steadily increase spending? We'll never know but I wonder.

I agree Cotterill's response seemed rather petulant and there was really only one outcome after that. I believe he could have been more diplomatic and made the owners task of removal, much harder. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

I agree Cotterill's response seemed rather petulant and there was really only one outcome after that. I believe he could have been more diplomatic and made the owners task of removal, much harder. 

Hopefully he wouldn't have been removed for some time to come in that scenario.

1)  Cotts does the diplomacy as you say.

2) With more harmony perhaps on pitch results have us lower midtable or surviving at least.

3) Cotts still in place as we approach the summer of 2016 and know that the matchday income will rise post redevelopment, as will the off field revenue.

As such, it is Cotts who gets the budget from 2016 although would he have brought into the player trading side? Some of that would have been necessary.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

As such, it is Cotts who gets the budget from 2016 although would he have brought into the player trading side? Some of that would have been necessary.

He sold Baldock.

[Davefevs]

On 07/11/2021 at 21:28, Davefevs said:

I don’t disagree with most of that.

But my worry going back 3/4 seasons is - what do you do when there are no players left to sell?  My other fear was the transfer market collapsing.  I obviously want expecting Covid, but always feared a tv deal collapse.

When I see City with costs of £60m but Millwall, Preston, etc doing as well (better?) than us on £30m I think it means we got too big for our boots.

We are now having to cut back seriously to avoid FFP next season.  That’s hamstrung us massively this summer.

The answer is to recruit well / smartly, develop your own players.

Interesting that RG made almost identical comments tonight on BBCRB.

[Mr Popodopolous]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He sold Baldock.

Well that was a positive certainly. It could have gone either way though over time IMO.

It's an interesting counterfactual either way.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

It's now over 8 months since Nige took on the "project" . According to many, the problem is entirely with the squad and not the coaching. I disagree.  Nigel has made it very clear what he wants from the players and has very publicly stated that he'll get rid of those who dont buy into what he's trying to do .... which seems like just about everyone. 

Thoughts anyone? 

[big dosser]

next 3 games very important.no wins in there i think it will be time to go rather see a new man with the jan transfer window pending

[LondonBristolian]

Do we have to start this conversation again every time we lose? I would understand it after three bad performances in a row but two decent performances in the last week seem to fly out the window, along with the fact we are missing our three most experienced central midfielders.

Yes - it  is worrying how dependent our season appears to be on Williams’ hamstrings but bored by supporters of a team expected to finish lower mid table throwing their toys out the pram because we lost away to a team just out of the premier league when we have injuries and they have a new manager bounce.

[Red Army 75]

Needs to get more of his own players in and try and offload some of the dross we have here.