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Pearson & Fleming : OUT


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26 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

And replace with who. Someone who can guarantee to win every game. Give Nigel time to replace these players with his players, then you can start asking the question. So back to the lead question. No, No, not at the moment.

Well, You either commit to paying for quality replacements or you don’t. If the finances don’t allow for such investment, then we have to continue to develop the young  players even if it means doing it in league 1

Edited by Jefferz
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28 minutes ago, Jefferz said:

I wonder if it is simply a case of not replacing the quality players that left: Webster, Browning, Cordova-Reid, Bryan, Kelly, Diedhiou, etc. The squad is palpably weaker and NP’s argument that the big, flabby squad with too many injuries had to be slimmed down hasn’t paid off. (It may have been a spin from the top to cover the cut in the wage bill)

Cardiff City did not replace quality players that left with similar consequences 

Needs to be done, FFP- operating losses etc etc.

Could we have recruited better? Yes. Could we have got more out of what we did recruit- also yes in varied cases IMO.

Cardiff are also heading towards a downward trajectory FFP wise, or have been.

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39 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

I despair - we lose a game and all the negativity starts over again……anyone heard of “Rome wasn’t built in a day”? That’s where BCFC is right now.

Unless we look like we are going down, SL will quite rightly stick with Nige……as others have said, we need to get rid of those who aren’t good enough/don’t want to be here, allowing Nige to bring in his own players before we truly judge him.

Who would come to City and do any better?

I for one, remain firmly behind the most experienced manager we’ve had in a long, long time

COYRs

It's not A defeat - it's ANOTHER defeat. 

It's not A bad performance - it's ANOTHER bad performance. 

It's not A list of embarrassing match statistics - it's ANOTHER list of embarrassing match statistics.

How anyone can justifiably argue in Nigel Pearson's favour at the moment baffles me!

We are aimless, clueless and only through very good fortune not looking back on even worse results. 

I can't recall us being unlucky/undeserving of any results that have gone against us, yet there's a very good chance that the (few) points we've managed recently, will be deemed a travesty by pretty much any other team that we've taken them against. 

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My thoughts are that the first few months of the projects were actually planning the next few years.

If you look at things purely in terms of what happens on the pitch, you are missing a lot of other stuff going on.

Results aren’t great, performances are very mixed.

But he’s had one summer, one window, a period when he had to jettison a lot of the squad for no money, cut costs significantly whilst trying to get a team together capable of starting the build.  He has that when enough players are fit.

You can’t define a team / result / performance with a midfield of Bakinson, Massengo and Benarous.  As well we did in 2 games last week to get through it and take 4 points, it was always gonna be tough without any of King, James and Williams.  Could’ve easily been zero points, so let’s give a bit of credit for the week overall, even if today was a big disappointment.

I do think there is a huge lack of patience.

I think there is a huge over-reaction to individual results and performances.  We are at the phase of a rebuild where we will probably have our weakest squad and this phase will be out most inconsistent.  Some of that inconsistency is in the range of poor to average.  I don’t think we will see many games this season where you think City were top class, win comfortably.  It’s gonna be a hard watch.

But the objective is to slowly improve.  But that won’t be a straight line.

 

I am impatient for us to have some success and admit that I do sometimes have my rose tinted specs on but, surely by now, we would expect to see an improvement in passing the ball, movement off the ball etc, etc. As lots have mentioned before, we just can't get the basics right. When we do, I am sure an improvement will be seen.

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I like Pearson's approach to getting a unified Club and team spirit.  I just don't like or comprehend the style of football he and the coaching staff are asking the team to play.  All the topsides in the Championship play a possession based game and we have the players who are better suited to that style.  Clearing the ball upfield in the general direction (at best) to the ever willing but sluggish  Martin creates zero chances and results in an instant loss of possession nearly every time. 

As I say, I like Pearson general approach and man management, but ultimately it's about what happens on the field in terms of both style and results.   We don't  have a clear answer on the type of football Nige wants to play and for a long time I've felt that the Club should have a clear pattern of possession based play that is replicated right through the academy levels and into the first team.  City has also always had a tradition of playing good football with pacy wingers.  We haven't seen that for some time now.  Maybe we will play some better football and bring in better players if the manager is given time but, won or lose, it's grim to watch and  doesn't suit the players we have either.   He bought in five players and would another five of the same quality transform things? I don't think so.

I want a manager who follows the Cloughy view ..."If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."  Even if we had the height of Croach or Kieffer Moore I still ouldn't want us to play in the style we currently use.  

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1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Most fans with any sense could see we would be wildly inconsistent this season. The problems go back four years . For all the SL lovers who fall at his feet, he’s culpable . He allowed Ashton full reins on everything football wise . Even his son had a pop when it was announced ashton was leaving . Saying along the lines of , it’s not a good thing to have one man in charge of everything. 
Pearson’s job is unenviable . He’s got the SOD job of sorting this mess out , ironically both caused by Ashton. The decks need clearing . There are plenty of players that imo are not good enough but pearson has his hands tied.

For all those wanting Pearson out , just think. Who would come in & what would or could they do with this current squad to change things. It’s very easy & lazy to blame the manager. 
look at our midfield today , the area of the pitch that wins & loses every football match . So inexperienced it’s unreal. People slagging off Bakinson but no mention of massengo . Very undisciplined today but he’s 20 , along with a 18 year old . Would we  have been so poor with james & williams in there . The answers no.

….and just to add, the cost cutting didn’t end in the summer.  Not sure there would be many takers with the conditions imposed.

And today is not a game to call out individuals.  I thought we were poor from keeper through to forwards. Bentley summed up today with two horrendous throws out, one led to their second goal.  

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25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My thoughts are that the first few months of the projects were actually planning the next few years.

If you look at things purely in terms of what happens on the pitch, you are missing a lot of other stuff going on.

Results aren’t great, performances are very mixed.

But he’s had one summer, one window, a period when he had to jettison a lot of the squad for no money, cut costs significantly whilst trying to get a team together capable of starting the build.  He has that when enough players are fit.

You can’t define a team / result / performance with a midfield of Bakinson, Massengo and Benarous.  As well we did in 2 games last week to get through it and take 4 points, it was always gonna be tough without any of King, James and Williams.  Could’ve easily been zero points, so let’s give a bit of credit for the week overall, even if today was a big disappointment.

I do think there is a huge lack of patience.

I think there is a huge over-reaction to individual results and performances.  We are at the phase of a rebuild where we will probably have our weakest squad and this phase will be out most inconsistent.  Some of that inconsistency is in the range of poor to average.  I don’t think we will see many games this season where you think City were top class, win comfortably.  It’s gonna be a hard watch.

But the objective is to slowly improve.  But that won’t be a straight line.

 

Very good post but the issue for me is not that I'm expecting miracles or quick solutions to long standing problems. But I did expect a Pearson team to be motivated and make the opposition at least have to work hard for the points. Beaten due to inexperience or quality of player or tactically. But beaten due to lack of determination and fight I do not think is acceptable. And clearly Pearson has proven consistently incapable of putting out a team each week that can compete or even show an interest in competing. Tough game away on a snowy day in Sheffield and our lot weren't interested. Not acceptable from Pearson and if you cannot get your team motivated and playing with pride then it doesn't seem to matter who you sign. He has failed. 

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Not read this thread carefully but I’m in the camp that wants NP and his staff to be given the time and resources that are clearly required to transform my Club. 

Of the players he’s added I like James, Tanner, Atkinson and King, of the players he let go there are none I was sad to see go.

He has made very clear this is a task that will take time and I am 100% confident that he will turn things around - given time / resources. He has recently made clear that a number of players will be exiting ASAP.

Thankfully, unlike many other Clubs, we show great patience and understanding with our managers and I trust this will be again be the case.

Frustrating and poor we certainly are but I am certain that NP and his staff will change that. The priority this season is not to be relegated.

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1 hour ago, Loosey Boy said:

I despair - we lose a game and all the negativity starts over again……anyone heard of “Rome wasn’t built in a day”? That’s where BCFC is right now.

Unless we look like we are going down, SL will quite rightly stick with Nige……as others have said, we need to get rid of those who aren’t good enough/don’t want to be here, allowing Nige to bring in his own players before we truly judge him.

Who would come to City and do any better?

I for one, remain firmly behind the most experienced manager we’ve had in a long, long time

COYRs

Out of likes but spot on mate! 

 

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9 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Very good post but the issue for me is not that I'm expecting miracles or quick solutions to long standing problems. But I did expect a Pearson team to be motivated and make the opposition at least have to work hard for the points. Beaten due to inexperience or quality of player or tactically. But beaten due to lack of determination and fight I do not think is acceptable. And clearly Pearson has proven consistently incapable of putting out a team each week that can compete or even show an interest in competing. Tough game away on a snowy day in Sheffield and our lot weren't interested. Not acceptable from Pearson and if you cannot get your team motivated and playing with pride then it doesn't seem to matter who you sign. He has failed. 

Did you expect that every week?

It’s difficult to judge what goes on with players as I’m not involved in any way shape or form with the team or it’s coaches .

Ive seen some good things about us and if our thread bare would have been injury free I’m sure I would have seen it more often. Like Holden’s torrid time, it’s not been perfect this year with injuries either.

It is starting to amuse me how all people want is ‘just to’:

1) Compete physically every week

2) Win the majority of their tackles or one on ones

3) Have more shots and more shots on target

4) Complete a higher percentage of passes

5) Restrict the opposition to fewer chances and shots on targets

6) have a similar or higher possession percentage than the opponent 

Results aren’t important if I could just see this ‘progress’ ??

Staying up this year would be an achievement, that’s what I thought in the summer.

Edited by 054123
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I just can't fathom why the team that fought tooth and nail for every ball against Stoke on Wednesday were so submissive today.  Don't anyone dare tell me that the players were tired. They are paid to play football and playing 3 times a week is not uncommon.  They have just had an International break . Something is wrong here at our club and it could cost us if its not resolved soon.

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Not for the first time since the summer, I still think we’ll finish in the bottom eight. The caveat in that is if SL lets Nige spend a decent amount of cash in January, which I don’t think he will. 

Someone said the other week, perhaps @Numero Uno , that with a fit Williams, we stay up easily. Without Williams, we’ll struggle. I think that’s bang on the money with the current squad. 

Bakinson — as our most experienced midfielder today — was an absolute joke. It was like playing with 10 men against a good side struggling in confidence. We need players like that to show some responsibility and stamp their authority on games like today’s, not go into their shell and refuse to pull their weight. That’s unacceptable IMO.

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1 minute ago, marmite said:

I just can't fathom why the team that fought tooth and nail for every ball against Stoke on Wednesday were so submissive today.  Don't anyone dare tell me that the players were tired. They are paid to play football and playing 3 times a week is not uncommon.  They have just had an International break . Something is wrong here at our club and it could cost us if its not resolved soon.

It is baffling isn’t it mate? but maybe that’s how it is with teams who are going to finish below 15th? Maybe you only end with 58 points because you just aren’t consistent?

Look at Gary Johnson’s team from 07/08, on paper not a brilliant team but god they fought very consistently and as such were rewarded with the play-offs.

If at the start of the season you thought we’d finish 15th or below then by definition inconsistency will be one of the traits.

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2 hours ago, WECANDO said:

A forward with pace would be a good start.

I think the issue is only in Midfield. An all rounder who can create and break up play who reads the game well, get that player we will create more good chances rather than the odd half chance, championship strikers need half a dozen fairly good chances per game to score 1. Will breathe confidence through the whole team. Our young midfield players will really benefit.

Rest of positions we are okish and good enough for mid/top half

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People can call out the players all they want and I wouldn’t disagree that they need to do a lot more but christ almighty after what is coming up to almost a year in charge i expected Pearson to have gotten a lot more out of what he has had at his disposal.

We look so poor all over the pitch, defensively more often than not we look all over the place and imo that is a direct reflection on the coaching or rather lack of it of Pearsons staff.
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Very good post but the issue for me is not that I'm expecting miracles or quick solutions to long standing problems. But I did expect a Pearson team to be motivated

that comes from changing the culture.  These things don’t happen overnight.  It’s why he introduced James and King, but he still has some way to go to effect this change.  Today probably typified it….slow start / poor start, just can’t overcome it, not the fibre to turn it around.

and make the opposition at least have to work hard for the points.

we’ve seen how important just one or two players can be to that dynamic. And when they aren’t playing it shows.

Beaten due to inexperience or quality of player or tactically. But beaten due to lack of determination and fight I do not think is acceptable.

yep, But that’s down to the players you have.  How many are genuine leaders?  It’s not just about tub-thumping, but the good teams have several of them.  They self police the performance levels.

And clearly Pearson has proven consistently incapable of putting out a team each week that can compete or even show an interest in competing.

I think Nige has admitted he doesn’t know what type of performance he’s gonna get.  It’s not just a few players being inconsistent, it’s different players, different weeks.

Tough game away on a snowy day in Sheffield and our lot weren't interested. Not acceptable from Pearson and if you cannot get your team motivated and playing with pride then it doesn't seem to matter who you sign. He has failed.

maybe the players were motivated, found the going a bit tougher than expected and then retreated into their shells?

 

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8 minutes ago, MattWSM said:

I think the issue is only in Midfield. An all rounder who can create and break up play who reads the game well, get that player we will create more good chances rather than the odd half chance, championship strikers need half a dozen fairly good chances per game to score 1. Will breathe confidence through the whole team. Our young midfield players will really benefit.

Rest of positions we are okish and good enough for mid/top half

You’ve just described Joe Williams. ??‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

It's not A defeat - it's ANOTHER defeat. 

It's not A bad performance - it's ANOTHER bad performance. 

It's not A list of embarrassing match statistics - it's ANOTHER list of embarrassing match statistics.

I know you love city and just want us to do well, me too, so I’m not looking to be awkward but any team that finishes 15th or lower is going to have multiple these.

I agree that if it were a Johnson season where we should be finishing top 6, then it would unacceptable. For me I just thought we needed to stay up this year and by definition it meant the majority of games would be a struggle.

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13 minutes ago, marmite said:

I just can't fathom why the team that fought tooth and nail for every ball against Stoke on Wednesday were so submissive today.  Don't anyone dare tell me that the players were tired. They are paid to play football and playing 3 times a week is not uncommon.  They have just had an International break . Something is wrong here at our club and it could cost us if its not resolved soon.

I think the answer is simple. Wednesday we had Williams and today we did not. We have an unbalanced squad and our overly reliant on certain players. We don’t have Williams and we don’t have James or King either. Benarous needs experienced heads around him, Bakinson only performs when the midfield has structure and Massengo does not have Williams’ positional discipline. Meaning that - as decent a player as Massengo is -  a midfield of Massengo, Bakinson and Benarous works far worse than one of Williams, Bakinson and Benarous.

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