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Pearson & Fleming : OUT

Marina's Rolls Royce

By Marina's Rolls Royce
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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The rebuild thing what with FFP is totally legitimate though, it's an ongoing process- as Dave has pointed out a club cost base of £60m is quite something! If we've shaved off £12m that's great but it still doesn't totally fix the issue.

In an ideal world we will have costs and revenue maybe not perfectly but we'll enough aligned that selling players isn't as essential just to stand still in an FFP context.

Lots out of contract summer 2023, we might have to tough things out in 2022/23 and sell one of Massengo, Scott, Semenyo as part of that but better days could lie ahead...in summer 2023 if we're still a Championship club.

It's a bit of a tanker to turn around, that cost base.

You are going to have to explain that cost base of £60m what does that exactly mean? operating costs including transfers? and to someone and no doubt others who cant really understand FFP ....what the hell is it exactly and in simple terms please.

in hope of clarity as there must be others who are thick like me....thank you.

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Kodjias Wrist

Kodjias Wrist

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, bristol red said:

Problem is I think at least Semenyo and Massengo will go. We might be lucky and hold Scott for another season.

We will seriously struggle without them.

Kalas, Moore, Baker, Vyner, DaSilva, Wells, Palmer all also likely to be moved on..

I can see us really struggling next season.

I really worry for next season and the season after due to our financial predicament. Hard to rebuild a side with no money in this league but I hope to god if we can't keep Massengo, Scott and Semenyo that we have some more good youth products on the way.

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cityfan1958

cityfan1958

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Posted

As a club we have these resets every few years. Where some poor manager has to take on someone else’s mess. These resets are usually followed by a relegation and the manager gets the sack for not being able to make a silk purse out a sows ear.

I would suggest this is one of the deeper messes we have been in for some time, both in terms of money, player ability (or the lack of it) and a lack general professionalism and intestinal fortitude within the club.

Given the manager has got us to the end of this season still in the same division means he has done a whole lot better than most who have gone before him in similar situations in our history. 
 

Not only is he rebuilding the team, but the whole club structure, and probably most importantly, the poor mental attitude that has become so imbedded over a good number of years. All this with no money to spend.

Despite the number of times it has been said, a good number just don’t get how bad the current situation. Rather than calling for the managers head after every loss have a look at those who cause the situation where we have to have these resets every few years. It can’t be beyond the wit of man to run a football club in a sustainable way ?

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pjg11

pjg11

Posted
Posted

Pearson has had the longest honeymoon period of any manager in football history. Year one was keep us up cut wage bill sort backroom staff job done. But no real improvement on the pitch no organisation identity still a soft touch. His coaching staff now still can't defend set pieces or stop crosses . No real progress or evidence it will get better. New medical staff still long injury list. No DOF or recruitment. Recruitment poor two complete passengers in King and Simpson. Wages vastly reduced so job done . Now year two things change will be 3 transfer windows his players his team his style his coaching methods building an id all his from now on . No free hit no excuses all the football stuff is his to own . Got a decent CEO not Ashton so the basket case has gone . Can't live on what he's done in the past what he does now counts . I was happy when Pearson was appointed not so sure now yes was in crap state when joined can't be used as a stick to beat the Lansdownes with over a year on now . All up to Nigel now transfer window coaching and organising all down to him . Summer to October vital for him cause must be evidence of improvement. Not sure it will happen as really no better a year later . So a big 6 to 7 months ahead . We can but hope I'm just not convinced 

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Rocking Red Cyril

Rocking Red Cyril

Posted
Posted
On 15/03/2022 at 22:22, Fordy62 said:

We all agreed we’d be happy if we avoided relegation. We all agreed we’d be even happier if we could do so and blood some youngsters.

When did things change?

Bang on 

This season was always going to be rocky and avoiding relegation was the aim. 

There has been a good progress of young players, who I am sure will go in the summer because why stay at a shit club, and our injury list has still been a problem..

So what's all this bollocks about Pearson and his coach out .we  are only Bristol city we are not a big club who expect  to be with the big boys in the premier. 

A promotion challenging side is 5 years away at least due to mis running and management of the club/team previous to Pearson . 

I love and support this club with all my heart. But we are pretty shit at mo but the root has started back. I expect at least another two shit seasons in our journey. So let's all get over ourselves and support the boys weather they win or lose.

COYR

 

 

 

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Gol

Gol

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13 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I dont think there's any such thing as a Free- just less expensive but the likes of King, James and Simpson are still a big financial outlay.

I genuinely believe that the Lansdown's will be considering their options right now with a view to a change at the end of the season if performances dont improve let alone results.

I highly doubt King and and Simpson were a big financial outlay in championship football terms. Given how long they were out of the game.  Plus both were given 1 year deals so at least we are not burdened with them on long term contracts like others in the squad. James was solid if not spectacular at the start of the season, he’s been poor since coming back from injury and does not look fit to me.

i think what a lot of people forget about last summer was Nige wasn’t appointed permanently until the end of the season and Gould was not in full time until the middle of the summer. This definitely affected our summer plans as we were playing catch up with a lot of other clubs. i  think this played a part in bringing in the Leicester trio as well. 
 

@Harrydid a good thread on recruitment team earlier this season. Lets be honest our recruitment problems have long predated Nige and wont change with him going unless the recruitment team is revamped. This will be Gould’s and Lansdown’s decision ultimately.
 

Whether Lansdown looks to replace Nige or not remains to be seen.  Would be an extra cost on an already overstretched budget. It would also set any summer plans back to square one and we are playing catch up again (which we cannot afford). They could do but with their record do you trust them to bring in the right person? Out of interest as you want Nige gone, who do you want to replace him?

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Gol said:

I highly doubt King and and Simpson were a big financial outlay in championship football terms. Given how long they were out of the game.  Plus both were given 1 year deals so at least we are not burdened with them on long term contracts like others in the squad. James was solid if not spectacular at the start of the season, he’s been poor since coming back from injury and does not look fit to me.

i think what a lot of people forget about last summer was Nige wasn’t appointed permanently until the end of the season and Gould was not in full time until the middle of the summer. This definitely affected our summer plans as we were playing catch up with a lot of other clubs. i  think this played a part in bringing in the Leicester trio as well. 
 

@Harrydid a good thread on recruitment team earlier this season. Lets be honest our recruitment problems have long predated Nige and wont change with him going unless the recruitment team is revamped. This will be Gould’s and Lansdown’s decision ultimately.
 

Whether Lansdown looks to replace Nige or not remains to be seen.  Would be an extra cost on an already overstretched budget. It would also set any summer plans back to square one and we are playing catch up again (which we cannot afford). They could do but with their record do you trust them to bring in the right person? Out of interest as you want Nige gone, who do you want to replace him?

They don’t have to answer that, the stock answer. Perhaps a better question is with our financial situation and the current state of the squad, what experienced manager would touch us with a barge pole or alternatively what up and coming manager would take a gamble that could destroy their career by coming here? We would end up with a Paul Ince type of appointment…..another way of saying a Manager who has never done it anywhere and ever.

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Fuber

Fuber

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

@Fuber

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/martin-extends-city-stay/

Eh. Can't say I agree with it, personally. I maintain we don't operate best with a target man and never really have. Our best football has come from pressing from the front, at least at this level - the only exception being Wilbs in League One.

Edited by Fuber
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Rocking Red Cyril

Rocking Red Cyril

Posted
Posted (edited)

I still feel our biggest worry is due to financial issues the club will take offers for Scott, Semenyou, and Massengo. And I do not see much of that money wil not be used for new players. Or not much of it. Due to running losses and ffp.

Then we really got problems. 

Keeps you on your toes this football fan thing ?

COYR❤️

Edited by Rocking Red Cyril
I can't spell let alone use the correct words
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Spike

Spike

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Posted

The part I don't understand about fans wanting rid of Pearson is when they suggest a manager to take over but don't ever stop to think why the manager would want a job with us. 

The positives is that we have good youth talent. 

The negatives is that the club is poorly run.

The manager will have no financial banking. 

Our squad is probably one of the poorest balanced squads in the league. 

We have no naturally right sided players at all. 

Our goals against is one of the highest in the league etc

Honestly, even as a City fan I wouldn't touch this job, I'd be looking elsewhere, especially considering we've never been a Premier League team and show no signs of ever being one. 

I think some fans just assume any manager without a job will just instantly accept a role here but that's definitely not the case and I'd dare to say I don't remember the last time we were a less desirable team to manage. Even in league one we looked like there was potential but right now with the club in the financial situation it's in I'd be avoiding it at all costs

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Spike said:

The part I don't understand about fans wanting rid of Pearson is when they suggest a manager to take over but don't ever stop to think why the manager would want a job with us. 

The positives is that we have good youth talent. 

The negatives is that the club is poorly run.

The manager will have no financial banking. 

Our squad is probably one of the poorest balanced squads in the league. 

We have no naturally right sided players at all. 

Our goals against is one of the highest in the league etc

Honestly, even as a City fan I wouldn't touch this job, I'd be looking elsewhere, especially considering we've never been a Premier League team and show no signs of ever being one. 

I think some fans just assume any manager without a job will just instantly accept a role here but that's definitely not the case and I'd dare to say I don't remember the last time we were a less desirable team to manage. Even in league one we looked like there was potential but right now with the club in the financial situation it's in I'd be avoiding it at all costs

I get the impression Hughton and Cook’s non-appointment might’ve been more that when they saw / heard the cluster#### they didn’t want it anymore.  In Cook’s case, the story I heard was that he actually started talking down his own ability during the interview when he heard what what Ashton / JL had to say.  Could be bullshit, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

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chinapig

chinapig

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I get the impression Hughton and Cook’s non-appointment might’ve been more that when they saw / heard the cluster#### they didn’t want it anymore.  In Cook’s case, the story I heard was that he actually started talking down his own ability during the interview when he heard what what Ashton / JL had to say.  Could be bullshit, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Certain club owners might love Ashton but I suspect experienced managers less so. I can't imagine JL would impress anybody either.

Then Cook finds Ashton is his boss at Ipswich, poor sod. There was only going to be one winner there.

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Ron W

Ron W

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Spike said:

The part I don't understand about fans wanting rid of Pearson is when they suggest a manager to take over but don't ever stop to think why the manager would want a job with us. 

The positives is that we have good youth talent. 

The negatives is that the club is poorly run.

The manager will have no financial banking. 

Our squad is probably one of the poorest balanced squads in the league. 

We have no naturally right sided players at all. 

Our goals against is one of the highest in the league etc

Honestly, even as a City fan I wouldn't touch this job, I'd be looking elsewhere, especially considering we've never been a Premier League team and show no signs of ever being one. 

I think some fans just assume any manager without a job will just instantly accept a role here but that's definitely not the case and I'd dare to say I don't remember the last time we were a less desirable team to manage. Even in league one we looked like there was potential but right now with the club in the financial situation it's in I'd be avoiding it at all costs

This is a great summary.

Wanting someone to blame is a very natural reaction when things are going badly but if you decide it's at the manager's door, who is going to come in and perform a miracle?

It's not like this is anywhere near a Premier League squad, in terms of quality or mentality. We have got to a point where we are publicly contemplating a points deduction because our finances are so bad.

We've been spoiled in the past 20 years. We've either been pushing for promotion in League 1 or telling ourselves we should be doing the same in the Championship. Sometimes it just ain't gonna happen and I think this is where we are.

We shouldn't let the way the finances have been allowed to get to this stage just pass by though. It was a big risk even before the pandemic and it's been horribly exposed.

Edited by RonWalker
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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 16/03/2022 at 22:27, gl2 said:

You are going to have to explain that cost base of £60m what does that exactly mean? operating costs including transfers? and to someone and no doubt others who cant really understand FFP ....what the hell is it exactly and in simple terms please.

in hope of clarity as there must be others who are thick like me....thank you.

Will try- hopefully the input of Dave and others too- FFP tbh is quite opaque, isn't covered that well by the media- certainly not the intricacies. I won't bother with PL or UEFA as let's be honest these won't be bothering us any time soon? A typical Championship club at this level for quite some time.

Operating costs are basically the entire costs of running the club- when we talk £60m that's the lot, plus interest.

Amortisation

Buy a player on a 5 year deal for £10m, and do it correctly then all being well it is £2m in the Profit and Loss account each year- written off in equal numbers- this differs to installments and differs to the actual transfer itself which is additions and can be found on the balance sheet albeit with no individual breakdown. All counts within the accounts but only for player transfer fees, signing on fees, some other categories and probably management compensation paid on hire does it count towards FFP- software, nope. Goodwill, nope.

Depreciation

Basically, the cost or the valuation as it appears on the Balance Sheet for Tangible Fixed Assets- if the Stadium is worth or costed at £60m and is written down over 50 years equally then £1.2m would appear in the P&L in a year- this is excluded from FFP calculations.

Loss Tariff

£13m in a year rising to £39m in any 3 year period- this is Loss Before Tax- any corporation tax payment or credit is therefore an irrelevance- however...

Allowable Costs

This is when a club- and all clubs have this- add back what needs adding back. Fixed Asset expenditure (in short reflected in the Profit and Loss via Tangible Asset Depreciation usually, or maybe sometimes Tangible Asset Impairment), Youth/Academy expenditure, Community expenditure and Women's Football expenditure- also goodwill and non playing based Fixed assets ie Software amortisation are excluded.

Put simply, I make our allowable costs £5m per year- which is where the below comes in. You take the accounting loss and then you add back the categories above.

Formula

In this instance, I would say accounting loss minus allowances=FFP Loss. Or in formula form, maybe...

AL-A=FFPL? Probably many better ways to do that formula however!

Cumulative Loss

In short, if our accounting loss before tax in a 3 year period exceeds £54m we could be in trouble! I am factoring this in after Interest payments made and received, and after, inclusive of Profit on disposal of Player registrations- these can certainly decrease or increase our losses. It's why I fear we might need to sell one of our great young talents this summer. Think one could be enough.

Gets more complex with Covid unfortunately...

Covid measures

  1. 2019/20 and 2020/21 added and halved- that means the period is included as one, basically- our halved loss is £24m, FFP takes that down to £19m give or take...
  2. ...Then Covid losses permitted- the stated limits are £5m per 2019/20 and 2020/21 I believe- which means it could take us down to a combined average of £14m give or take- and £2.5m this season!

Apologies it's quite a long post all told! Quite a bit to unpack though...hope it helps.

In short, as things stand we need accounting losses not exceeding £54m in a regular 3 year period, although with Covid and averaging it becomes rather difficult..

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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