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Ok, so what happens next?


Davefevs

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

I’m in 2 minds.

Firstly no one out there excites me and makes me think they can turn this around.

Secondly I think we are going backwards under Pearson. We seem less organised, less drilled, in all areas of the pitch. At the start of the season I saw improvements on last season, however now I’m not. I don’t see what we are doing in training sessions to be honest, do we even train together?

Do I think Pearson is the right man? Each week less so, probably to be honest I’m more against him than pro right now. 
 

Do I know who is / should be the alternative? No. 

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I’m going to keep the faith a little longer. We must remember that we have been slightly hamstrung in financial terms by Covid. Now, I know this applies to the other 23 clubs in the Championship, but, we needed a squad overhaul.

I firmly believe if we can get Williams fit then we will be far more competitive with him and James next to one another. 

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Personally I hope that Richard Gould and, ideally, SL sit down with Nige as soon as he’s fit enough. It’s time for a frank conversation about his fitness and appetite. If this job is going to make him ill or prevent him getting better then we should part ways. Similarly if the illness(es) prevent him giving 100% we should part ways. 
His demeanour doesn’t seem great of late. The results, form, performances aren’t great.  
I guess I’m saying that if I was his boss I’d want some convincing right now… 

If I wasn’t convinced… I’d be looking to get Warnock in for the rest of the season and try to breath some life and passion into the club and that other great Warnock trait - a siege mentality.  

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50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

A tough one Dave, I still think he needs time to completely rebuild this team but that time could very likely see us go down.

I can't see anyone turn the tide with this team & the financial restraints in place. Strap yourself in mate.

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Difficult call.  We are where I thought we would be with this squad, either in the bottom 3 or just above it.   

What  I was hoping to see this season were some signs we were moving in the right direction.  I look back at who we released and bar Paterson and Fam would have let them all go. I don’t understand why we signed Simpson or King because they continued a trend of signing players that neither improved the side in the short term or added any value longer term.  More worryingly it made me question whether things were going to improve moving forward.  I assumed Baker was resigned to enable Kalas to be sold but then a deal didn’t materialise

You then look at how the team is set up as a cohesive unit and whether the existing players are improving and I am struggling to see any evidence that we are any better now than we were under Holden .  We are neither better in possession of the ball or in defending without the ball. This is extremely damning on the coaching set up given the low bar set last year.  
 

Key question is who is to blame for transfer policy/activity and coaching set up.  The longer NP is in charge the more the finger will be pointed at him.  I would like to see NP backed as much as possible in the next transfer window but at the same time am extremely concerned by the lack of evidenced progress on the pitch to date  

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

Curse you and your rational outlook mr feather stone. Don’t you know it’s all gotta burn down now!

 

ps. I don’t have an answer , as before just pray we can fight for whatever points it takes us to stay up, under a manager of your choice 

 

pps it’s really late and I can’t think straight 

Edited by Out of his pie crust
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4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

Posters on here will tell you I’ve said for some time the rot has set in in this club, but even I couldn’t envisage it being as bad as it’s turning out to be 

The only way we stay up this season is if three clubs are worse then us or if we bring in a new manager and get a 6 or 7 game bounce. It’s as simple as that 

We had some bad spells under SL….but this latest one is unforgivable. Appointing Holden when he did after the failures of Tinnion and Millen…laughable 

I personally hope he looks to sell up as soon as possible

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Pearson stays unless he doesn't feel well enough. We get Williams back and James but recruit two half decent defensive mids in January( no, I don't know where from) and we just about survive.

If we have to rely upon Bakinson( who I like) and HNM to shield our back four we're ******. Even against ten men. 

Gotta be harder to beat and nine times out of ten it's about the midfield. Our back five is ok and we've got some lads to stick it in the net but due to past incompetence the cupboard is bare where we need it most.

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

Precisely- Everyone now seems to think that Lowe is the answer to all our problems, yes he’s a decent up and coming manager and I’d have no issue with him here but ultimately some of these players have gone through Johnson, Holden and probably Pearson.

So in another 6 months the knives will be out for whoever else we bring in as the players are spineless and not bloody good enough. 

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I was chuffed to bits to get Pearson and fully accepted it was going to be a massive job to turn us around. I had very little expectations for this season. 

That said I thought he would develop our current squad, we would be harder to beat and his tactical knowledge would be an asset. 

I'm gutted to say I just don't think it's working out, early warning signs for me were the use of the subs, some of NP's sub decisions in a match have just beggared belief to me. I wasn't expecting flowing football but the current standard is appalling. For the first time I feel we are actually getting worse not better. 

Other clubs have been quick to pick up that their managerial appointment has not worked out and have made the change. I reluctantly feel we have reached this point. With Farke and Warnock freshly available, however realistic or unrealistic they may be, I think we should try and get one of them in to give us new impetus. 

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

This is the problem Dave. What guarantees would a new manager bring? This squad is abysmal and our worst since we’ve been in the champ for me. However does that excuse NP? 

I see a lot of people on here calling for Ryan Lowe, an unproven manager, who is doing a great job at Plymouth but under totally different circumstances. Slightly different scenario but 99% of the fan base were up in arms employing an unproven manager at this level in Holden. Granted he hasn’t had the exposure or experience Lowe has, but would this type of move yet again show a complete lack of leadership and plan from SL?

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The Pearson project just seems too far gone now. Physios to coaches, we are pot committed.

The worrying thing for me was the holden team just needed organisation and discipline. 

We seem over reliant on younger players who through no fault of their own, lack the mental toughness, the resilience and guile to see out 90 minutes of championship men's football.

We are toothless up front, too soft in midfield, disorganised in defence.

To me that was obvious from the start, maybe Pearson knew that too, as he seems genuinely agitated and almost finding this job funny. 

I'm tired of the same 'im cross  smile, i have my opinions on this squad, loooooook, adjusts glasses, empty threats and promises' for every abject performance.

Maybe the fault lies at SLs door, but its making the ashton and lj days look like heaven right now.

 

Edited by Lordofthebling
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It’s not Pearson that’s the problem. It’s the shower if shit he’s inherited. 

We need a magician along the lines of Paul Daniels or the Great Soprendo to turn this lot into anything close to resembling a coherent footballing team.

I worry about Pearson’s mental health. His demeanour when interviewed and the way in which he responds to questions seems, at times, to becoming increasingly bizarre - even contrary. 

I fear another Coppell situation here. And why would that be? Maybe, and just maybe, he feels he was mislead. 

Maybe the lure of the stadium and the High Performance Centre aren’t as important to a footballing man as they seem to be to others.

Maybe “the youngsters” aren’t as talented as he was led to believe.

Maybe he thinks Capn Dan us the best of a bad bunch (or bench) and is as exasperated as many are when they hear his booming voice, his waving hands and the inevitable hoof down the middle.

Or perhaps that’s all bollocks. Maybe he’s just had one £6 pint of Haze too many…..

Who knows. I wish him well.

Who can replace him? No one can. Who would want to?

Its the turds that need replacing, not the polisher.

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What won’t happen but should is something I have advocated on Otib for years, namely a thorough outside audit of the club from top to bottom and side to side.

If this was done a way forward at all levels could be mapped out, and a plan set in place.

Truth is this club is badly run and has been for decades

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Watford change their manager at the drop of a hat. It doesn’t seem to do them much harm. Conceding 3 goals in 45 minutes against a league 1 team last season, who were down to 10 men is truly laughable and a new low for us. Pearson has had long enough to improve results and has failed to do so. Without a change we’re in league 1 next season. 

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2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

What won’t happen but should is something I have advocated on Otib for years, namely a thorough outside audit of the club from top to bottom and side to side.

If this was done a way forward at all levels could be mapped out, and a plan set in place.

Truth is this club is badly run and has been for decades

Thats a genuinely good point. Have we ever done that? I know its a million miles away but I know England did it after the 2010 World Cup, got clear organisational philosophies in place. Brentford gave done it too.

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From my very limited ITK-ness, Nigel Pearson is running every single aspect of the football side. He’s essentially manager and Director of Football.

With his continuing health issues, I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point this season he moves upstairs and a young head coach comes in. 
They were very keen on Russel Martin when Holden got the boot but obviously thought experience was needed.

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3 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

What won’t happen but should is something I have advocated on Otib for years, namely a thorough outside audit of the club from top to bottom and side to side.

If this was done a way forward at all levels could be mapped out, and a plan set in place.

Truth is this club is badly run and has been for decades

Thing is why would the owner agree to that? That’s the last thing he’ll want.

External audits only happen if business owners want them or financiers insist on them. In this case they amount to the same thing.

And as we know external auditors can be “influenced”. I doubt there’s an audit firm on the planet - let alone in Bristol (Merchant Venturers anyone) who’d want to expose the Lansdown Shower of Shit.

Sadly.

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I think the first thing is those inside the club knowing the extent of just how unwell he is.

If he’s fit to continue then he certainly gets until Xmas to see if this is working.

I know we have gone all in for him, Rennie & now Fleming, but at the very least we should see signs of organisation & a plan.

I get confidence is low, we were missing key players yesterday but to lose in the manner we did was pitiful.

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, the general tone tonight is:

- sack Pearson

What happens next then?  What are the consequences of that action?  What is solved by that action?

Personally don’t think sacking him is the answer, but I’m not sure what is either. He inherited a mess & I mean as a club, not just the playing side on the back of the financial disaster that is Covid. Has he tried to change too much too soon? Medical side, two assistants gone, new assistant in mid season, U23’s coach promoted, moving into the you know what centre, loaning out system quashed, squad overhaul. But after all this, his team ( I don’t buy into all this ‘other people’s players nonsense’ ) are under performing, this group is potentially 10th - 12th standard imo. So that falls at his & the players door. I’ve not been overly impressed with any of his new signings from the little I’ve seen which is another worry, but I’m never one for sacking managers, unless they seem out of their depth, which in reality we know he isn’t. Maybe we just have to ride out the storm to see the next sunny day. So that’s my answer, hang on tight! COYR 

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Surely everyone needs to take a step back a minute....

We're 7 points clear of relegation and just 7 off the playoffs.....

Pretty much everyone on this forum at the start of the season agreed we were in for a tough season and general concensus was a mid to lower-mid table finish would be a good season setting us up to push on from there and we're what a win away from that sort of league position?

Biggest issue for me, as it has been for years, is the lack of a director of football/ sporting director setting the footballing 'vision' for the club and bringing us into the 21st century in terms of recruitment! Pretty much every successful teams at our level and the prem has one and we can't just lump part the role on Pearson, part on our data analyst and the other on our CEO and expect everything to be fine.

 

 

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It’s a simple one for me. Keep Pearson for a bit longer and see where we are in January.  If there are green shoots showing then carry on. If it looks like the last roll of the dice to improve things and not get relegated is replace the manager then sack him. 
 

We all expected a tough season but we cannot get relegated. I’ve no issue with the league table as it stands really…..2-3 more points would be nice. It’s the performances that are hugely concerning. If a manager is building something then the performances shouldn’t get worse and more clueless 

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The easy answer is sack the manager but ultimately this group of players isn’t good enough so any new manager will ultimately end up with the same results and same OTIB threads.

Painful as it is we need to stick with NP and somehow convince a club to take Palmer off our hands and even move Wells on in January. It may give us some wriggle room to be a little more creative in January. 

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Firstly, something needs to change or we will be relegated, points deductions or not. The thing is what?

We know it was a big job, and he started with the backroom staff (much needed) , fair enough. 
The team , let's call it reshape as funds weren't there for a quick rebuild. King, James & Simpson were cheaper options to fill holes. 2 real signings look promising. Again I think that's fair enough.

My problem comes from what was the main reason I wanted an experienced man in. We have decent players, they have lacked organisation for some time. I wanted someone to come in and set us up properly, get us playing to a system, hopefully a style. After a hint at that, we have slipped back to being as toothless, weak and disorganised as any time under Lee Johnson or Holden.  
I'm not absolving the players of blame, but we are watching the same players do the same things with the same instructions and the same bloody substitutions game after game.  I would question dragging Pring off for Wells, that is the most basic FM manager/ LJ type of move, throwing an extra striker on . We were already conceding too much possession to their 10 men, why not just get fresh legs on, Martin? Why is he almost unsubable ? He is being flogged to death.

We desperately need something different to happen.

If Pearson is suffering from long COVID, or something that is ongoing, maybe a short term appointment while he gets well is the option. If he just is a little off I don't feel so kindly towards his position . 8 months into the job, experienced man we all wanted has had little or no impact. If Lansdown sees it a long term job for Nige, I think we have to get ready for relegation . Problem is , one look at Ipswich & Sunderland shows it's not a given to come straight back up. 
After what I've seen, the capitulations I've witnessed , the complete lack of football we've been served up, I would probably take Warnock for the rest of the season. Football can't be any worse and I doubt he would accept some of the performances we've had to suffer .  It would show we are at least not going to just measly go down, would be a very unpopular appointment, for that alone at least it would be entertaining. It would allow the club plenty of time to target another long term appointment.

Edited by 1960maaan
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1 minute ago, WirralRobin said:

Surely everyone needs to take a step back a minute....

We're 7 points clear of relegation and just 7 off the playoffs.....

Pretty much everyone on this forum at the start of the season agreed we were in for a tough season and general concensus was a mid to lower-mid table finish would be a good season setting us up to push on from there and we're what a win away from that sort of league position?

Biggest issue for me, as it has been for years, is the lack of a director of football/ sporting director setting the footballing 'vision' for the club and bringing us into the 21st century in terms of recruitment! Pretty much every successful teams at our level and the prem has one and we can't just lump part the role on Pearson, part on our data analyst and the other on our CEO and expect everything to be fine.

 

 

Get what you’re saying but you can’t just look at the table. You have to look at performances and the lack of a plan in games.  Nobody expected Pearson to make us easier to score against and for performances to get worse 

Edited by And Its Smith
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