Waconda Posted November 7, 2021 Report Share Posted November 7, 2021 Chairman Jon Lansdown said in February upon the 58-year-old being appointed to replace Dean Holden: “Nigel gives us the leadership and direction we need to lift the players’ confidence and to turn our form around.” But, here’s the rub, Pearson’s desired approach – and he’s always quick to remark that he doesn’t like being pigeon-holed, and that is fair enough but you only have to look at the most rudimentary of statistics to see how City are trying to play – doesn’t suit a lot of this squad. Are Han-Noah Massengo, Jay Dasilva, Alex Scott, Nahki Wells, Callum O’Dowda, Kasey Palmer, Ayman Benarous and probably even Chris Martin players who thrive in a direct system/does a direct system bring out their best attributes? You may not rate a number of those players, and can crow about Mark Ashton all you want, but the truth is they are in this squad under contract and they have to be used in the best possible way. Yes, people have to be adaptable but not everyone is an all-rounder, even at the very elite level of that game; individuals have strengths and weaknesses. There is a considerable chunk of this squad who have either been developed in the academy, from a very young age of late teens via another club, or signed as clever, technical operators and there is a clear contradiction between their profile and the proposed will of the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 7, 2021 Report Share Posted November 7, 2021 If only we’d kept faith with trying to play a technical game 4 years ago? We didn’t realise what LJ had got (tactical genius or stumbled upon). He turned a team that was beginning to show real signs of technical capability into a team that decided counter-attacking football was the way forward. I never got that. Early this season I’d say we played a mixed style. Stats showed that to be true also. I’d say we did accommodate technical players like Scott, Massengo, but balanced with the likes of Baker, the nous of King, etc. Balance being the key word. But that has definitely changed. Some if it through injury. I could easily describe our early season system, it build through pre-season. Until yesterday first half I had a number of weeks where I couldn’t. Second half I couldn’t again. I do think it’s fine to be critical of recent weeks / games, and also the current trend. But the whole season has not been like this. Can Nige (or whoever) get us back to early season competitiveness? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted November 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Davefevs said: If only we’d kept faith with trying to play a technical game 4 years ago? We didn’t realise what LJ had got (tactical genius or stumbled upon). He turned a team that was beginning to show real signs of technical capability into a team that decided counter-attacking football was the way forward. I never got that. Early this season I’d say we played a mixed style. Stats showed that to be true also. I’d say we did accommodate technical players like Scott, Massengo, but balanced with the likes of Baker, the nous of King, etc. Balance being the key word. But that has definitely changed. Some if it through injury. I could easily describe our early season system, it build through pre-season. Until yesterday first half I had a number of weeks where I couldn’t. Second half I couldn’t again. I do think it’s fine to be critical of recent weeks / games, and also the current trend. But the whole season has not been like this. Can Nige (or whoever) get us back to early season competitiveness? That is the question. Agree with your point on LJ though, post Man City games he started to believe "the hype" and began to over coach and stifle the team, from which point we have gone down hill at pace. Edited November 7, 2021 by VT05763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack Bladder Posted November 7, 2021 Report Share Posted November 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, VT05763 said: That is the question. Agree with LJ though post Man City games, started to believe "the hype" and began to over coach and stifle the team, from which point we have gone down hill at pace. Agree with this. It was all about possession, sideways, backwards, sideways backwards boring to watch with many matches zero shots on target, I really couldn't take any more, it was dire to watch. Now is also dire to watch, but in a very different way. Don't care for either style really. Just give me ENTERTAINMENT 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted November 7, 2021 Report Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Can Nige (or whoever) get us back to early season competitiveness? I seriously doubt it as the players have given up again. Maybe they’d pick up for a game or 3 just as they did when Johnson and Holden were both sacked, but it would only take a minor bit of misfortune for this pathetic group to completely down their tools yet again, which would be inevitable. Getting King and Williams back will be a help but that’s just wishful thinking. It staggers me that a significant group of our professionals are unwilling to put in 100% on the pitch or even try to look bothered. They are again completely content with sleepwalking into league one, after being fortunate enough for it not happening last season. That combined with the most fragile mental state in the league is a recipe for complete disaster and we are already well on that path. It’s not a good squad by any means but it’s not bottom 3 material, yet I am now completely convinced that’s where we are headed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted November 7, 2021 Report Share Posted November 7, 2021 Piercey makes an interesting argument but - whilst I agree there is an issue in the fact we have a manager who does not appear to rate or feel able to get the best out of a number of our players and we don't have money to get new ones - I think the truth is a bit more nuanced than Piercey's argument. There's not an automatic contradiction between being direct and being technical. Teams like Liverpool and the title-winning Leicester side show you can get the ball from back to front quickly whilst still playing good football. Of the players listed, I think Massengo could do well in a fast, technical direct team and I think Dasilva could do whilst I actually prefer O'Dowda on the occasions when he is a bit more direct. But, for me, the fundamental issue is that playing direct counter-attacking football requires defensive solidity and pace on the break and these are the two qualities we lack. I don't think that rules out the idea that some of the players listed could function in a team playing how Pearson seems to want us to play but we're missing the players to complement them to make it work. To my mind, the things we'd need for the type of football Pearson seems to want are: 1) Pace on the flanks and up front 2) Wide players who are willing and able to cover the full backs 3) A midfielder who can screen the defence and soak up possession. There are three things tha we currently lack. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted November 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 7 hours ago, LondonBristolian said: Piercey makes an interesting argument but - whilst I agree there is an issue in the fact we have a manager who does not appear to rate or feel able to get the best out of a number of our players and we don't have money to get new ones - I think the truth is a bit more nuanced than Piercey's argument. There's not an automatic contradiction between being direct and being technical. Teams like Liverpool and the title-winning Leicester side show you can get the ball from back to front quickly whilst still playing good football. Of the players listed, I think Massengo could do well in a fast, technical direct team and I think Dasilva could do whilst I actually prefer O'Dowda on the occasions when he is a bit more direct. But, for me, the fundamental issue is that playing direct counter-attacking football requires defensive solidity and pace on the break and these are the two qualities we lack. I don't think that rules out the idea that some of the players listed could function in a team playing how Pearson seems to want us to play but we're missing the players to complement them to make it work. To my mind, the things we'd need for the type of football Pearson seems to want are: 1) Pace on the flanks and up front 2) Wide players who are willing and able to cover the full backs 3) A midfielder who can screen the defence and soak up possession. There are three things tha we currently lack. So the question remains - Why are we continuing to pursue what is basically football suicide ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, VT05763 said: So the question remains - Why are we continuing to pursue what is basically football suicide ? Or why is Nige pursuing it? Does he not know another way? Surely he would recognise the squad’s incompatibility with his desired outcome? Edited November 8, 2021 by exAtyeoMax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 Journalist trying to chime with supporters so he gets articles read. If Pearson had gone down the more technical route he'd be writing an article bemoaning Pearson not being true to his style. Whatever approach he took Pearson would still have a squad lacking a number of characteristics vital for any side as well as containing players who really aren't as good as they need to be. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, The Bard said: Journalist trying to chime with supporters so he gets articles read. If Pearson had gone down the more technical route he'd be writing an article bemoaning Pearson not being true to his style. Whatever approach he took Pearson would still have a squad lacking a number of characteristics vital for any side as well as containing players who really aren't as good as they need to be. Yes, but let’s talk about the real world, not hypotheses. He has the squad that he has, and he seems unable to deploy them to best advantage. Piercey puts forward an interesting argument as to why that is the case. Edited November 8, 2021 by The Dolman Pragmatist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 40 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Yes, but let’s talk about the real world, not hypotheses. He has the squad that he has, and he seems unable to deploy them to best advantage. Piercey puts forward an interesting argument as to why that is the case. You mean Percy is hypothesising? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) Here’s a hypothesis : Bentley Vyner | Baker | Atkinson | Dasilva Weimann | James | King | O’Dowda (Palmer) Scott Martin versus Bentley Tanner | Kalas | Vyner | Pring Weimann | Bakinson | Massengo| O’Dowda Scott Martin for info that’s the opening days line up versus Saturday. In terms of James Piercey’s piece, the team v Blackpool had a mix / balance, the one v Cov not so (subjective from me). For a squad / team being built from the back the core 6 players - back 4 and 2 CMs were completely different. Im not actually hypothesising, just presenting something for discussion. Edited November 8, 2021 by Davefevs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutton Caveman Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 14 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: I seriously doubt it as the players have given up again. Maybe they’d pick up for a game or 3 just as they did when Johnson and Holden were both sacked, but it would only take a minor bit of misfortune for this pathetic group to completely down their tools yet again, which would be inevitable. Getting King and Williams back will be a help but that’s just wishful thinking. It staggers me that a significant group of our professionals are unwilling to put in 100% on the pitch or even try to look bothered. They are again completely content with sleepwalking into league one, after being fortunate enough for it not happening last season. That combined with the most fragile mental state in the league is a recipe for complete disaster and we are already well on that path. It’s not a good squad by any means but it’s not bottom 3 material, yet I am now completely convinced that’s where we are headed. 3:1 odds on Skybet yesterday for us to be relegated. I think that's pretty good value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 On 07/11/2021 at 19:42, VT05763 said: Chairman Jon Lansdown said in February upon the 58-year-old being appointed to replace Dean Holden: “Nigel gives us the leadership and direction we need to lift the players’ confidence and to turn our form around.” But, here’s the rub, Pearson’s desired approach – and he’s always quick to remark that he doesn’t like being pigeon-holed, and that is fair enough but you only have to look at the most rudimentary of statistics to see how City are trying to play – doesn’t suit a lot of this squad. Are Han-Noah Massengo, Jay Dasilva, Alex Scott, Nahki Wells, Callum O’Dowda, Kasey Palmer, Ayman Benarous and probably even Chris Martin players who thrive in a direct system/does a direct system bring out their best attributes? You may not rate a number of those players, and can crow about Mark Ashton all you want, but the truth is they are in this squad under contract and they have to be used in the best possible way. Yes, people have to be adaptable but not everyone is an all-rounder, even at the very elite level of that game; individuals have strengths and weaknesses. There is a considerable chunk of this squad who have either been developed in the academy, from a very young age of late teens via another club, or signed as clever, technical operators and there is a clear contradiction between their profile and the proposed will of the manager. None of that explains why our players seem unable to pass or control a ball, to even League 1 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted November 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 1 minute ago, CotswoldRed said: None of that explains why our players seem unable to pass or control a ball, to even League 1 level. Well they have in the past and will be able to in the future is my prediction. We are basically playing a league 2 style of football at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 On 07/11/2021 at 20:19, Slack Bladder said: Agree with this. It was all about possession, sideways, backwards, sideways backwards boring to watch with many matches zero shots on target, I really couldn't take any more, it was dire to watch. Now is also dire to watch, but in a very different way. Don't care for either style really. Just give me ENTERTAINMENT I'd say that was a mixed bag post Jan 2018 to May 2018 but it definitely got worse- 2019/20 was when the no shots issue really kicked in at times, although not that much in the way of possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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