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If BCFC was a company there would be an interim lined up NOW!


headhunter

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2 hours ago, headhunter said:

Right here and now there is no time set for Nigel's return. OK, its a free weekend coming up but then City face 3 tough games in 8 days. Just 1 or 2 points from those and the spectre of relegation will loom larger.

City must have a footballing leader at the helm. Nigel will not be fired as that means paying off his contract. I am sure like any employee there is an occupational sick pay scheme such that it is likely he would be on full pay for six months and then half pay for a further 6 months. After that is when the negotiating starts for agreeing a sum to terminate the contract based on inability to continue work. With SL in charge you can rest assured City will do the right thing. The optics of relieving him of his duties would not look good.

A normal business would take stock of the situation and if, say, their FD was going to be absent over a testing period [for year end, company acquisition read relegation battle in football terms] an interim would be hired to address the issue. I know this as I have helped companies do this in my day job!

I suggested Warnock over the weekend as an interim but, not unexpectedly, that bought hoots of derision on OTIB although one or two are now coming around to the idea. A less contentious, and dare I say more popular choice, would be Joe Jordan who could call on Harry Redknapp to sprinkle some stardust on matchday [they worked together at Spurs].

There will be no clarity on this until we know just how long Nigel is going to be absent for and then there will be those that say even while he's been here results suggest he's not improved things so why have him back?

One final point on Warnock, his win % over the past 5 years is not too shabby compared to Nigel's.

 

We've had a senior manager off sick for 6 months,

There is no interim, his assistant is covering his role 

That's how it works in the real world 

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2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

We've had a senior manager off sick for 6 months,

There is no interim, his assistant is covering his role 

That's how it works in the real world 

Good for you / your company! I guess they are operating in a steady state - assumption by me but let's say its your Production Manager who's off. One of the Shift Manager could probably step up to cover?

In City's case if they just go with the flow and take a similar approach there's every chance it could cost them £10M if they got relegated

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To my way of thinking it is impossible to continue as we are for more than a few days, and certainly no longer than a week.  Why?  From what we know Nige did limited amount of actual coaching more of an overview of individual players and tactics.  Simpson was brought in to oversee coaching along with two assistants.  Simpson now has to step up to Nige’s role, at least in part, as well as his own role.  Not sustainable with only one other coach to help.  We are at least one coach light, IMO.

 

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17 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

To my way of thinking it is impossible to continue as we are for more than a few days, and certainly no longer than a week.  Why?  From what we know Nige did limited amount of actual coaching more of an overview of individual players and tactics.  Simpson was brought in to oversee coaching along with two assistants.  Simpson now has to step up to Nige’s role, at least in part, as well as his own role.  Not sustainable with only one other coach to help.  We are at least one coach light, IMO.

 

I think you mean Fleming?

Are we really “a coach light”? Someone rightly asked Gould last night what exactly it is that Cisse does (not a great answer, BTW), we have Alex Ball with the first team (as Mickey Bell appears to be doing his old job for now), plus Pat Mountain.The likes of Trevor Challis with the younger lads.

That seems to be enough to me.

As for this interim stuff, it all seems fine in theory (though Joe Jordan, come on, it can’t just be someone on the basis of where they live) but does anyone think Warnock for instance is going to join & then happily **** off if Pearson gets better? Absolutely no chance.

We need clarity in 2 weeks, we do need to be planning for if he doesn’t come back at all, but I don’t think we need to do much more this week.

Edited by GrahamC
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As I mentioned in a different thread, we already have someone who could come in and help / support / run the 1st team, Tinman, knows more about the club than anyone, knows the young players whilst some would point to his previous attempt at managing it was a long time ago and in a different situation. He is someone the players, club, fans know and trust and will not cost any money

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53 minutes ago, headhunter said:

In City's case if they just go with the flow and take a similar approach there's every chance it could cost them £10M if they got relegated

Whilst turnover would fall from FL (mostly TV) monies post relegation it doesn't follow that it would 'cost' City an equivalent amount on the balance sheet. With Wages the largest liability should there be commensurate provision within contracts for them to fall (say by a third,) that's nearly £10m already. Should some of the crap, high earners voluntarily depart, potentially further savings.

Perchance we started being competitive and entertaining at the top of L1 crowds might hold up if not increase, beer and shirt sales might boom.

Chances are turnover would be lower but so, too, would liabilities.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Nah, it's just basics FFS ?

You’ve just proved it’s not your day-job ???

13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Whilst turnover would fall from FL (mostly TV) monies post relegation it doesn't follow that it would 'cost' City an equivalent amount on the balance sheet. With Wages the largest liability should there be commensurate provision within contracts for them to fall (say by a third,) that's nearly £10m already. Should some of the crap, high earners voluntarily depart, potentially further savings.

Perchance we started being competitive and entertaining at the top of L1 crowds might hold up if not increase, beer and shirt sales might boom.

Chances are turnover would be lower but so, too, would liabilities.

Bit of a leap of faith that players signed to push for playoffs would’ve happily inserted a relegation reduction….what kind of ambition is that? ???

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3 hours ago, headhunter said:

 

City must have a footballing leader at the helm. .

A normal business would take stock of the situation and if, say, their FD was going to be absent over a testing period [for year end, company acquisition read relegation battle in football terms] an interim would be hired to address the issue. I know this as I have helped companies do this in my day 

There will be no clarity on this until we know just how long Nigel is going to be absent for and then there will be those that say even while he's been here results suggest he's not improved t….

 

Absolutely! Was about to post the same thing. Regardless of football  I hope NP makes a speedy recovery but having an open-ended leave of absence is not an ideal situation. The club cannot and should not sack NP due to illness but like any other business are well within their rights to employ an interim leader. They can’t let the current situation continue without a strategy. Unfortunately I’m mindful that I’m talking Bristol City and thinking there might be a strategy is complete folly.

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3 hours ago, headhunter said:

Right here and now there is no time set for Nigel's return. OK, its a free weekend coming up but then City face 3 tough games in 8 days. Just 1 or 2 points from those and the spectre of relegation will loom larger.

City must have a footballing leader at the helm. Nigel will not be fired as that means paying off his contract. I am sure like any employee there is an occupational sick pay scheme such that it is likely he would be on full pay for six months and then half pay for a further 6 months. After that is when the negotiating starts for agreeing a sum to terminate the contract based on inability to continue work. With SL in charge you can rest assured City will do the right thing. The optics of relieving him of his duties would not look good.

A normal business would take stock of the situation and if, say, their FD was going to be absent over a testing period [for year end, company acquisition read relegation battle in football terms] an interim would be hired to address the issue. I know this as I have helped companies do this in my day job!

I suggested Warnock over the weekend as an interim but, not unexpectedly, that bought hoots of derision on OTIB although one or two are now coming around to the idea. A less contentious, and dare I say more popular choice, would be Joe Jordan who could call on Harry Redknapp to sprinkle some stardust on matchday [they worked together at Spurs].

There will be no clarity on this until we know just how long Nigel is going to be absent for and then there will be those that say even while he's been here results suggest he's not improved things so why have him back?

One final point on Warnock, his win % over the past 5 years is not too shabby compared to Nigel's.

 

NP is in constant contact with coaching and team affairs he is just currently working remotely from home. I’ve been told teams calls to coaching staff and players is constantly going on day to day. I think this will continue to happen until NP is fit to get back to the club FT.

 

one point I’ve noticed over the last 48hrs is that people are knocking NP for being ill and saying he’s shouldn’t be in his role if he’s not fit, however when Cotts was ill nobody on here said that he should give up his role or he’s not fit to continue, they wished him well and a speedy recovery. 
 

I can’t wait to see NP back in his role and getting the team ticking again. It was never going to be a five minute fix, we need patience, I do agree we need to see improvements and if that means new faces as some people don’t want to be here then let’s get it done in January. 

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You’ve just proved it’s not your day-job ???

I'm still waiting for a DM from Headhunter offering me a top PR job! 

I'll tell you what, more swearing from the board when they're interviewed would be great.

"Geoff, we know we've been ******* shite this season so far and it's a right ****** that Nige got ill. Don't worry, we'll get these ***** motivated even if I have to kick the shit out of them!"

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Bit of a leap of faith that players signed to push for playoffs would’ve happily inserted a relegation reduction….what kind of ambition is that?

Exactly the type of ambition the contracts they were offered should have been. If they're not anticipating relegation why would they be bothered?Players will certainly have looked to include promotion uplifts. There's nothing unambitious about:

Your basic weekly salary is 'X':

Each week, dependant upon the club holding your registration, your remuneration shall be:

For League 1 'X';

For The Championship '7X';

For The Premier '25X'.

Players look to incorporate unilateral relegation clauses to their benefit, properly run clubs now counter likewise.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Exactly the type of ambition the contracts they were offered should have been. If they're not anticipating relegation why would they be bothered?Players will certainly have looked to include promotion uplifts. There's nothing unambitious about:

Your basic weekly salary is 'X':

Each week, dependant upon the club holding your registration, your remuneration shall be:

For League 1 'X';

For The Championship '7X';

For The Premier '25X'.

Players look to incorporate unilateral relegation clauses to their benefit, properly run clubs now counter likewise.

 

 

 

 

Personally I completely agree….just that this is Bristol City. ??‍♂️

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2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

We've had a senior manager off sick for 6 months,

There is no interim, his assistant is covering his role 

That's how it works in the real world 

That's the thing, Football isn't the real World. Performance, results , confidence and so much more can rest with a Manager in Football. From my experiences most companies would be able to coast by with an assistant or the like in charge. 

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Whilst turnover would fall from FL (mostly TV) monies post relegation it doesn't follow that it would 'cost' City an equivalent amount on the balance sheet. With Wages the largest liability should there be commensurate provision within contracts for them to fall (say by a third,) that's nearly £10m already. Should some of the crap, high earners voluntarily depart, potentially further savings.

Perchance we started being competitive and entertaining at the top of L1 crowds might hold up if not increase, beer and shirt sales might boom.

Chances are turnover would be lower but so, too, would liabilities.

That's a stretch, considering how poorly it started last time we went down. Sunderland & Ipswich didn't find it easy. Pretty sure we would lose a large percentage of regular support, at least until we showed signs of improvement. Even then would we be getting near what we are now? I doubt it. 
 

On the Warnock thing. 
If Pearson is suffering as badly as it sounds, and no one knows how long or how badly Long COVID hits. Then it may mean months away from the Club. In this case scenario , I think Warnock might be the right sort of fit. To make sure Pearson is fully fit to return  they could give him until the summer to recuperate , and hopefully come back strong and healthy . Warnock has previous of short term improvements, the recruitment could be the same as NP would have done and just let Warnock coach what we have.  Who knows if he would even come.
As it stands, we are in a relegation fight. From our last few games, we are coasting to relegation. If Warnock came, at least it would be interesting, if only to see if we could Boo our team to success .

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5 hours ago, headhunter said:

Right here and now there is no time set for Nigel's return. OK, its a free weekend coming up but then City face 3 tough games in 8 days. Just 1 or 2 points from those and the spectre of relegation will loom larger.

City must have a footballing leader at the helm. Nigel will not be fired as that means paying off his contract. I am sure like any employee there is an occupational sick pay scheme such that it is likely he would be on full pay for six months and then half pay for a further 6 months. After that is when the negotiating starts for agreeing a sum to terminate the contract based on inability to continue work. With SL in charge you can rest assured City will do the right thing. The optics of relieving him of his duties would not look good.

A normal business would take stock of the situation and if, say, their FD was going to be absent over a testing period [for year end, company acquisition read relegation battle in football terms] an interim would be hired to address the issue. I know this as I have helped companies do this in my day job!

I suggested Warnock over the weekend as an interim but, not unexpectedly, that bought hoots of derision on OTIB although one or two are now coming around to the idea. A less contentious, and dare I say more popular choice, would be Joe Jordan who could call on Harry Redknapp to sprinkle some stardust on matchday [they worked together at Spurs].

There will be no clarity on this until we know just how long Nigel is going to be absent for and then there will be those that say even while he's been here results suggest he's not improved things so why have him back?

One final point on Warnock, his win % over the past 5 years is not too shabby compared to Nigel's.

 

Colin for me

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5 hours ago, Laner said:

Spot on. Initial cover would be found internally... which is exactly what City have done.

 It has been going on for months though. This is not something which has suddenly developed.

It requires making some tough decisions. Not taking them could cost us our Championship status.

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3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

As I mentioned in a different thread, we already have someone who could come in and help / support / run the 1st team, Tinman, knows more about the club than anyone, knows the young players whilst some would point to his previous attempt at managing it was a long time ago and in a different situation. He is someone the players, club, fans know and trust and will not cost any money

That's all far too cosy & familiar...

In my opinion that would be a mistake.

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4 hours ago, Monkeh said:

We've had a senior manager off sick for 6 months,

There is no interim, his assistant is covering his role 

That's how it works in the real world 

Regrettably, football and the real world are 2 different identities.  However, I certainly agree with your point.

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6 hours ago, headhunter said:

OK, maybe I was being over zealous in saying NOW but do you have confidence in Fleming and Ball to improve our form if, say, Nigel was given until January 1 [opening of transfer window] to regain his strength? Many have said on here about the impact of long Covid - we could be talking about 6 months, not 6 weeks.

I think Fleming and Ball get one more game, two at the max. They have to shoulder most of the blame (after the players) for Saturdays shambles, poor subs and telling them to shut up shop......... OMG CITY???....... shut up shop! that's asking the impossible of this lot. Against ten men it had to be, use width, run them ragged, use the ball and attack aggressively. we did none of that and became rabbits in the headlights. I think Fleming has been in charge for a win before (Peterborough?), but Millwall was poor. 

I think he needs to get a win (possibly two draws) in next two games, anything less and if NP is not back (and fighting fit), then it has to be what you suggest, delay to Christmas means at best a wasted season and at worst going down.

Its mad to think it based on our form, but due to this being a crazy league, we are not out of reach of the play offs yet.... someone coming in and doing a Steve Cooper type job, could still make this a fun season, even if thats just a sniff of the play offs as we head into the final games. (was it Ward of GJ that came in and turned it around, but just ran out of games to get into the mix?)

BTW - love your PODCAST, kept me sane for two years of lockdowns and "not so good" football, Love Ian as well, fab entertainment and love his views on the reds.. dont always agree, but he is always worth listening to.

 

 

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There should be succession planning for all roles at the club, not just the players.

If we are doing well (it has happened!) then you need to plan for you manager being poached.  If you are doing badly you need to keep tabs on potential replacements and move quickly to secure them.

It's a drum I bang on here for a while, but this relies on having some identity/ ethos/philosophy that underpins the club.   We don't.  Unlike a club like Swansea who recruit often quite obscure coaches but ones who fit with how they want to play.   Whereas we lurch from one style to another depending on who we recruit as manager/coach.   

 

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35 minutes ago, brady bunch said:

 

Its mad to think it based on our form, but due to this being a crazy league, we are not out of reach of the play offs yet.... someone coming in and doing a Steve Cooper type job, could still make this a fun season, even if thats just a sniff of the play offs as we head into the final games. (was it Ward of GJ that came in and turned it around, but just ran out of games to get into the mix?)

BTW - love your PODCAST, kept me sane for two years of lockdowns and "not so good" football, Love Ian as well, fab entertainment and love his views on the reds.. dont always agree, but he is always worth listening to.

 

 

Ward - 96/97 won 6 of last 7 to put us in play-offs where we lost to Brentford 1-2 [h] then 1-2 [a]

Podcast [FBC] - thanks, glad you like it. Ian isn't everyone's cup of tea, he can be quite bombastic! He's our Piers Morgan - you love to hate him but you still listen

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6 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

That's all far too cosy & familiar...

In my opinion that would be a 

 

3 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

No thanks what makes you think hes learn from the last debacle maybe good with the kids but first team we cant afford no more mistakes. Sorry intended for the post you answered too.

 

Edited by RobintheRed Red
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We played terribly against a very poor Barnsley, who I think outplayed us.  It was the luckiest 2-1 victory I have ever seen, how we got away with that I'll never know.

Yet it was greeted as if we'd won the World  Cup final, yes I know it was the first home win for ages, but I think the 3 points was much more a factor in the celebrations that followed.

That's why I think Colin would be accepted ....short term here.  Get the points in the bag no matter how it's done, save us from relegation because that's where I think we're heading, then he can retire in peace to Cornwall... job done!  

If Nige is then fit to resume...and is still up for the challenge, so be it. If he wants out, time enough to sound out his replacement.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 42nite
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10 hours ago, 42nite said:

We played terribly against a very poor Barnsley, who I think outplayed us.  It was the luckiest 2-1 victory I have ever seen, how we got away with that I'll never know.

Yet it was greeted as if we'd won the World  Cup final, yes I know it was the first home win for ages, but I think the 3 points was much more a factor in the celebrations that followed.

That's why I think Colin would be accepted ....short term here.  Get the points in the bag no matter how it's done, save us from relegation because that's where I think we're heading, then he can retire in peace to Cornwall... job done!  

If Nige is then fit to resume...and is still up for the challenge, so be it. If he wants out, time enough to sound out his replacement.

 

 

 

 

 

What makes you think Warnock would agree to a deal either until Pearson got better or even to the end of the season?

He has been going to retire more times than Frank Sinatra, if he kept us up then he would expect to stay.

There is some real naivety here, I’m sure that he would take our job if offered it, but my view is only on the basis that he is manager, not as some interim, as he would think he’s far better than that.

The other names banded around (Mike Flynn, FFS) are just bizarre, they have either never worked at Championship level or if they have, it was ages ago.

I don’t know if Fleming is the answer short term but he is who we have & so until we have clarity on the longevity of Pearson’s absence him, Ball, Mountain & Cisse are going to be in charge.

If results continue to be poor this will certainly influence how long we can carry on like that.

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17 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

What makes you think Warnock would agree to a deal either until Pearson got better or even to the end of the season?

He has been going to retire more times than Frank Sinatra, if he kept us up then he would expect to stay.

There is some real naivety here, I’m sure that he would take our job if offered it, but my view is only on the basis that he is manager, not as some interim, as he would think he’s far better than that.

The other names banded around (Mike Flynn, FFS) are just bizarre, they have either never worked at Championship level or if they have, it was ages ago.

I don’t know if Fleming is the answer short term but he is who we have & so until we have clarity on the longevity of Pearson’s absence him, Ball, Mountain & Cisse are going to be in charge.

If results continue to be poor this will certainly influence how long we can carry on like that.

Ok, thanks for putting us all right.

?

 

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