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Who are these players?

dunsteral

By dunsteral
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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, marmite said:

I sometimes wonder if many of our squad can actually read a game as it's progressing. Can they spot a potential weakness in the opposition and exploit it  or are they playing exactly to instructions with no freedom to go off plan at all. I've  noticed to many of them looking at the bench for instructions rather than playing a natural game.  Anyone who's played will know that every attack or defensive move will be different in some respects. Sometimes you have to improvise rather than follow "the plan". Our players either can't or won't.  They are so afraid of making a mistake that they continually take the safe option , and the momentum is lost. I think we are not necessarily a poor side, but we are boring and very predictable to watch.

Earlier this season I thought we mixed it up nicely, but you also have to give credit to opponents for imposing their game and disrupting ours.  This is where you need your leaders to get you through a tough period and regain control.  That hasn’t happened enough lately, nor do I think some players have the mentality to overcome an opponent who has gained the ascendency on them.  They just go further into their shell.  City are not good enough to play with 9 and carry 2.  You can see why Nige brought in the players he did, and why King and James complimented each other well, even if they weren’t massively exciting…they just did the basics very well. And by doing that you gain control.  We are having to play off the cuff at the mo’.

It’s frustrating because I do see mini-spells where I see progress, but one bad pass, one mistake, and you see heads drop.  Got to be stronger!

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JoeAman08

JoeAman08

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Posted
1 hour ago, old_eastender said:

COD played well for 45 mins and then completely went missing for the whole of the 2nd half, how he was not subbed off was just down to Flemings abysmal game management. Give me Scott any day over COD.

You could probably say that about everyone for the Coventry match! I am with you though. I’d have Scott in my best XI but trying to mix what I like with what I think is likely to happen. 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

You could probably say that about everyone for the Coventry match! I am with you though. I’d have Scott in my best XI but trying to mix what I like with what I think is likely to happen. 

In an ideal world with no injuries, players at steady form, there would be some interesting team selections for a one-off game.

I really like Scott, he has an edge to his game too.

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JoeAman08

JoeAman08

Posted
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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In an ideal world with no injuries, players at steady form, there would be some interesting team selections for a one-off game.

I really like Scott, he has an edge to his game too.

Yep. Your first bit is why I always get a bit defensive when people say this is an awful squad. Individually, it isn’t close to a bottom 6 side imo. A lot of talent that can be selected. Maybe as a collective it doesn’t quite work as well but we have been missing a key player or more pretty much all season, especially recently. 
 


 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yep. Your first bit is why I always get a bit defensive when people say this is an awful squad. Individually, it isn’t close to a bottom 6 side imo. A lot of talent that can be selected. Maybe as a collective it doesn’t quite work as well but we have been missing a key player or more pretty much all season, especially recently. 
 


 

It’s not an awful squad, it’s not a great one either.  If the squad was all Nige’s, either retained / re-contracted or signed of a similar ability level, my expectation would be a well-drilled collective capable of over-achieving results because of that collective.  If that makes sense.

But it’s a disjointed bunch, even down to the age range of players.  It’s been constructed / destructed badly.

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marmite

marmite

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s not an awful squad, it’s not a great one either.  If the squad was all Nige’s, either retained / re-contracted or signed of a similar ability level, my expectation would be a well-drilled collective capable of over-achieving results because of that collective.  If that makes sense.

But it’s a disjointed bunch, even down to the age range of players.  It’s been constructed / destructed badly.

Badly constructed is very true. No matter how good your bricks are, without the mortar it will collapse. This is our team at the moment. They are mostly decent players for this level but they do not bond as a team.

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Harry

Harry

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Posted

“Who are these players” indeed. 
I find it quite sad that, probably for the first time in my near 4 decades as a fan, I don’t think I actually like or respect ANY of our players. 
Don’t know if it’s an age thing or if I’ve just been ground down by this group over the last couple of years, but I actually don’t like any of our players. None of them. 
And worse still, I don’t think a single one of them is capable of being in a team which challenges for promotion from this division. What a horrendously low base to start from. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, RedRock said:

Personally, think Atkinson has been one of the issues with our defence. Bit of inexperience regarding positioning, slow recovery on occasions. Don’t think he’s as ‘oven-ready’ as it first appeared. Very rarely do Bristol City buy anyone of his age and lack of experience and get them fully functioning as an ever-present in the first team. Far from being one of Nige’s names in terms of shipping out though. 
 

Would agree with ‘2015’ and ‘Tin’ on the list. Only two that disappoint me is Wells and Dasilva. These are players who, if used correctly, could be assets - Wells leading the line and Dasilva wide midfield (his height was always going to be an issue at fullback- once the opposition had sussed it, which they did early on). I suppose the question is though, given their wages, will they ever deliver value for money.  The rest, well, even though some have undoubted talent, it’s application, desire and heart that’s all too frequently missing. You don’t get away with less than 100% in the Championship. 
 

Largely agree with your post although the bit about height etc...unsure. Rico Henry and DaSilva are a similar height at least according to a quick search, think Alioski is a similar bracket- quite good LBs in recent promotion sides. Of course he's not been the same post injury and there is definitely a case for playing him higher, he has technical ability- could accentuate some positives while masking some weaknesses. A pre injury DaSilva, well that's a different story of course and I would back him at LB. Especially as he without the injuries likely would have developed more easily and might well be better now.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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Posted

On the narrow vs wider full backs point, being a bit simplistic probably but round holes and square pegs...

IF you go with say Tanner and one of DaSilva/Pring, they are more orthodox full backs- they should be wider probably, to provide an outlet but they also need support from the wide forward or wide midfielder in front of them.

If though it is Vyner and Baker- they are and especially Baker, centre backs by trade- to condense the space you need them narrower...trade off is that they may not be a great outlet going forward, with the exception of set pieces. However you might get some more stability or numbers at least in the middle- see Wright-Flint-Baker-Magnússon as a comparison.

However to play Tanner and DaSilva/Pring narrow doesn't play to their strengths and forces them into a bit of an unnatural position- same too probably if you went with Vyner-Baker and told them to get high and wide!

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Largely agree with your post although the bit about height etc...unsure. Rico Henry and DaSilva are a similar height at least according to a quick search, think Alioski is a similar bracket- quite good LBs in recent promotion sides. Of course he's not been the same post injury and there is definitely a case for playing him higher, he has technical ability- could accentuate some positives while masking some weaknesses. A pre injury DaSilva, well that's a different story of course and I would back him at LB. Especially as he without the injuries likely would have developed more easily and might well be better now.

It’s alright being short if you don’t keep lumping the ball over his head! We don’t play to suit his attributes. 

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LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Harry said:

“Who are these players” indeed. 
I find it quite sad that, probably for the first time in my near 4 decades as a fan, I don’t think I actually like or respect ANY of our players. 
Don’t know if it’s an age thing or if I’ve just been ground down by this group over the last couple of years, but I actually don’t like any of our players. None of them. 
And worse still, I don’t think a single one of them is capable of being in a team which challenges for promotion from this division. What a horrendously low base to start from. 

Whilst I am not quite a down on the players as you are, I do get this sentiment. The one thing that gives me (possibly false) comfort is around 8 of the worst Bristol City team I can remember in the first half of 2013/2014 played a role in the best football I can remember City playing in 2014/2015. We feel a long way from that sort of turnaround right now though.

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Major Isewater

Major Isewater

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

It's starting to feel a bit like Lee Johnson's "players I can trust" gambit. Not great.

NP is being a bit cannier than LJ was I believe. He has given the players the opportunity to show that they are pro and want to play.
He has openly stated that due to squad size he may have to play players who he wants out and this gives them the chance to either impress a future club or prove that they can be part of the exciting future at Ashton Gate. 
LJ’s statement excluded and divided the camp.

 

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Sir Geoff

Sir Geoff

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Harry said:

“Who are these players” indeed. 
I find it quite sad that, probably for the first time in my near 4 decades as a fan, I don’t think I actually like or respect ANY of our players. 
Don’t know if it’s an age thing or if I’ve just been ground down by this group over the last couple of years, but I actually don’t like any of our players. None of them. 
And worse still, I don’t think a single one of them is capable of being in a team which challenges for promotion from this division. What a horrendously low base to start from. 

Can't argue with your sentiments and have had the same thoughts for some time. Possibly a bit harsh on Scott and Massengo but it wouldn't worry me one jot if I never saw the rest of them again.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the narrow vs wider full backs point, being a bit simplistic probably but round holes and square pegs...

IF you go with say Tanner and one of DaSilva/Pring, they are more orthodox full backs- they should be wider probably, to provide an outlet but they also need support from the wide forward or wide midfielder in front of them.

If though it is Vyner and Baker- they are and especially Baker, centre backs by trade- to condense the space you need them narrower...trade off is that they may not be a great outlet going forward, with the exception of set pieces. However you might get some more stability or numbers at least in the middle- see Wright-Flint-Baker-Magnússon as a comparison.

However to play Tanner and DaSilva/Pring narrow doesn't play to their strengths and forces them into a bit of an unnatural position- same too probably if you went with Vyner-Baker and told them to get high and wide!

Perversely I thought Baker’s positioning was spot on, not too narrow at all.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Judging by the current criteria, this rules Vyner out doesn’t it? Or does it not count if it’s one of the accused ?

D4C79A2E-C9AE-46B9-BD56-BA2E6E863EDA.jpeg

If you zoom in you can make out Nige has one of the electric shock buzzers in his palm, and it’s about to pass through both Zak and Saikou! ?

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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Judging by the current criteria, this rules Vyner out doesn’t it? Or does it not count if it’s one of the accused ?

D4C79A2E-C9AE-46B9-BD56-BA2E6E863EDA.jpeg

I have no idea of course as I don’t ever see them train, but personally would be amazed if Vyner’s attitude is one of those that is in question.

There is a fair debate about whether he’s good enough for Championship football but that’s another issue entirely.

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