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Joe Williams out Sunday?


DT The Optimist

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It's weird ..........Williams played over one hundred games over 3 seasons prior to joining us, with hardly an injury.  Yet since he has been with us, it has been constant injury issues.  He is 25 next month, so has plenty of time ahead of him, just hope we can keep him fit and healthy, as he is a very important player for us.  He seems to have developed an ongoing weakness with his hamstrings, hoping our medical team can sort him out?

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50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Those bloody invisible green shirts I reckon! ?

King was gonna be early December….let’s hope he’s progressing.

…and also if you bare in mind his age in those seasons….21, 22 and 23, that’s very good.  Shame our ex-Evertonian didn’t play as many in all his time here as Joe did in one season at Bolton.

Did you spot the chunk of shirt / shoulder Østigård had on Massengo?

Didnt realise Bents didn’t save Fletcher’s header onto the cross bar….from 100 yards away it looked a brilliant save ???

At the start Dave if you look closely he is pulling Massengo's massive hair. That should have been the first infringement the ref should have spotted before HNM wrestled him to the ground.

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1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

It is the lack of consistency that is so bad. Various Stoke players were allowed to climb all over Chris Martin, yet when O'Dowda did the same to a Stokie to jump for a long ball, it was given as a foul. There are lots of other examples. 

Yes I felt Blackburn game, which I was at, ref was shocking in what he did not notice or let go. In the seconed half when there two bookable tackles from Blackburn which fair enough the ref played on. But then go back and book the offenders. And last nite yes Stoke players got away with so much , which I felt we dealt with well, and ref missed are disgracions as well. Just no common sense consistent refereeing.I know it goes both ways and swings and roundabouts what goes for you and against you. But is a consistent standard of refering so difficult to attain . Oh well VAR next in the championship ? that be interesting

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

 I think the ref didn't give a pen due to it looking 50/50.......Yep HNM had a hold of Ositgard's shirt, but it seemed reciprocal to me, as Ostigard was holding and pulling HNM too.  I am pretty sure the ref saw it as even stevens, and let it go IMHO ?

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6 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

At the start Dave if you look closely he is pulling Massengo's massive hair. That should have been the first infringement the ref should have spotted before HNM wrestled him to the ground.

I think the ref spotted that their player had a hold of Massengo's shirt dragging him down and also his hair. 

Nowhere near a penalty imo.

Ref got that one spot on.

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1 hour ago, maxjak said:

It's weird ..........Williams played over one hundred games over 3 seasons prior to joining us, with hardly an injury.  Yet since he has been with us, it has been constant injury issues.  He is 25 next month, so has plenty of time ahead of him, just hope we can keep him fit and healthy, as he is a very important player for us.  He seems to have developed an ongoing weakness with his hamstrings, hoping our medical team can sort him out?

One reason.

Andrew Roll's medical team.

Ever since he was appointed in 2018 till he left this summer, injuries under LJ, DH, and NP were measurable. Add to that his records at Watford and Arsenal.

It very well could not be his fault. But there's a definite correlation.

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1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I think the ref spotted that their player had a hold of Massengo's shirt dragging him down and also his hair. 

Nowhere near a penalty imo.

Ref got that one spot on.

I agree. I thought the sky pundits were very biased in this case and ignored the fact that Ostigard was also fouling HNM, calling it a blatant penalty. 

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

If you watch the HNM thing ,look back in box and there are stoke and city players pushing grabbing and pulling same as hmm so ref could have given a foul against about 5 players on each side its what goes on at every corner or free kick into box. 

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14 minutes ago, red colin said:

If you watch the HNM thing ,look back in box and there are stoke and city players pushing grabbing and pulling same as hmm so ref could have given a foul against about 5 players on each side its what goes on at every corner or free kick into box. 

Yep. Tonnes of it goes on at every set play every week. But when a player is holding another one for about 15 yards and isn’t facing the ball, not once, it’s a penalty. 
If that was the other way round, I’m certain it would be unanimous on here that it was a pen. 

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4 hours ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

Did you notice on there penalty appeal with Massengo their player was pulling messengos hair as they ran in the box ?.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Yep. Tonnes of it goes on at every set play every week. But when a player is holding another one for about 15 yards and isn’t facing the ball, not once, it’s a penalty. 
If that was the other way round, I’m certain it would be unanimous on here that it was a pen. 

Exactly that...crap defending by HNM..again late reacting. And reactionary. Didn't read it, reacted late and just grabbed his man. Why the hell would HNM be assigned that player too? Utter madness. It's these type of errors that cost us. If it were me...at set pieces, if we are playing one man left upfield I'd choose HNM, imo, he's crap at defending inside the box.

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We usually have every player back I think

 

Which is a big mistake. Look at the series of corners Stoke had. Without an outlet, we just delayed further attacks.

We had to wait until their shit inswinging corner that went into touch before getting ourselves out of jail. 

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Sat in the lower Lansdown it looked like HNM was preparing to come on when Nige called over Williams, Williams pointed to his hamstring and if my lip reading was right suggested it was a bit tight, to which Nige said right you’re coming off straight away.

The good news was as HNM was getting his tracksuit off, Williams happily went back to play until the ball went out of play again. 

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1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Did you notice on there penalty appeal with Massengo their player was pulling messengos hair as they ran in the box ?.

I didn’t see Ostigard pull hair. What I saw was HNM grappling and then Ostigard trying to release himself, which he did by trying to get his left arm over the top of HNm’s head. 
You’ll see it quite clearly broken down in the pics below. 
Look carefully at Ostigard’s left arm. You’ll see clearly that he’s trying to get it over the head, not touching his hair at all. 
It’s a penalty every day of the week. 
 

785C3B60-F656-4A4B-9FEB-51AE45F18ADC.jpeg

C4F6C2E4-19DD-414A-A15B-744B8918F08F.jpeg

78C460C5-E11F-4110-8959-6524B905A118.jpeg

7E2DABE0-BF6C-4DED-B3B5-5FDDAEEAEF80.jpeg

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33 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Back to topic. If Joe is out that gives him a good 10 days recovery before WRDC visit AG. James hopefully back but if not Massengo in for Williams could be the only change with James on the bench.

I had to look that one up!   Who the pheck are WRDC I thought to myself?   Of course formerly known as FLDC?

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4 minutes ago, Harry said:

I didn’t see Ostigard pull hair. What I saw was HNM grappling and then Ostigard trying to release himself, which he did by trying to get his left arm over the top of HNm’s head. 
You’ll see it quite clearly broken down in the pics below. 
Look carefully at Ostigard’s left arm. You’ll see clearly that he’s trying to get it over the head, not touching his hair at all. 
It’s a penalty every day of the week. 
 

785C3B60-F656-4A4B-9FEB-51AE45F18ADC.jpeg

C4F6C2E4-19DD-414A-A15B-744B8918F08F.jpeg

78C460C5-E11F-4110-8959-6524B905A118.jpeg

7E2DABE0-BF6C-4DED-B3B5-5FDDAEEAEF80.jpeg

What day of the frigging week would that be?  If that's a pen, then I'm Lord Lucan?  Ha!

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57 minutes ago, spudski said:

Exactly that...crap defending by HNM..again late reacting. And reactionary. Didn't read it, reacted late and just grabbed his man. Why the hell would HNM be assigned that player too? Utter madness. It's these type of errors that cost us. If it were me...at set pieces, if we are playing one man left upfield I'd choose HNM, imo, he's crap at defending inside the box.

It’s something I’ve noticed all season. The way we set up from corners. 
We have the 3 best headers on the 6 yard box and then we have 3 or 4 ‘blockers’. These blockers aren’t necessarily there to challenge aerially with their opponents, just to delay their arrival, allowing one of the 3 designated ‘headers’ to have the advantage to win the ball. 
We’re not the only ones who do it. Most teams seem to be setting up in a similar fashion this season. Stoke did as well. 
From what I’ve seen of it from ourselves though, our ‘blockers’ don’t tend to be very good at blocking and ultimately end up running back with their opponent, making it appear as though they are marking him - but just end up getting in the way of our designated headers. 
 

I agree re leaving a man up. And I agree, I’d let HNM do it, because he frequently loses his man at these set pieces. 

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1 minute ago, maxjak said:

What day of the frigging week would that be?  If that's a pen, then I'm Lord Lucan?  Ha!

If that was the other way round, what would you say then Mr Lucan? 
 

The fact that HNM held onto him for another 15 yards without once looking at the ball is what makes it a blatant pen. 

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Those bloody invisible green shirts I reckon! ?

King was gonna be early December….let’s hope he’s progressing.

…and also if you bare in mind his age in those seasons….21, 22 and 23, that’s very good.  Shame our ex-Evertonian didn’t play as many in all his time here as Joe did in one season at Bolton.

Did you spot the chunk of shirt / shoulder Østigård had on Massengo?

Didnt realise Bents didn’t save Fletcher’s header onto the cross bar….from 100 yards away it looked a brilliant save ???

I would think that the ref thought it was each one holding and pushing the other, So how could it be given as a foul to either team? Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

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2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I agree. I thought the sky pundits were very biased in this case and ignored the fact that Ostigard was also fouling HNM, calling it a blatant penalty. 

I’ve just watched the Sky coverage, unbelievably biased, especially Goodman.

Also plenty of our fans I saw posting on here and social media at half time saying how we should be 4 down, what??

I don’t get it, they didn’t have the players good enough to put the ball in the back of the net, simple. We at that stage had more shots on target. I’m not saying they hadn’t played better than us but as the decent pundit, Glen Murray said at half time, we were one up and deserved it.

Some of our fans love to analyse how good our opponents are, our mistakes but ignore the good things we do.

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14 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s something I’ve noticed all season. The way we set up from corners. 
We have the 3 best headers on the 6 yard box and then we have 3 or 4 ‘blockers’. These blockers aren’t necessarily there to challenge aerially with their opponents, just to delay their arrival, allowing one of the 3 designated ‘headers’ to have the advantage to win the ball. 
We’re not the only ones who do it. Most teams seem to be setting up in a similar fashion this season. Stoke did as well. 
From what I’ve seen of it from ourselves though, our ‘blockers’ don’t tend to be very good at blocking and ultimately end up running back with their opponent, making it appear as though they are marking him - but just end up getting in the way of our designated headers. 
 

I agree re leaving a man up. And I agree, I’d let HNM do it, because he frequently loses his man at these set pieces. 

I agree. Glad you noticed as well. Static headers of the ball very rarely win a header against offensive players on the move, mobile so to speak. The blockers often don't block. We see our headers of the ball static marking space. The offence lose their marker/blocker and often have free headers. Couple examples yesterday where it was easier to score for Stoke from those situations.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

We usually have every player back I think

Just gone through a random sample of defensive corners all the way back to QPR.  All 10 outfield players back, every corner….typically 4 lined across the 6 yard line….the other 6 blockers and markers.  I hadn’t noticed this.

Out of interest, have we conceded any from a corner this season?  None.  If you count O’Hare’s (Cov) from a header to the edge of the box, then it’s one.  The average goals conceded per corner is 2.25 per team.

So much as most of us old-schoolers would prefer a player left upfield, there is a strong argument in the numbers to suggest having every man back is better.

I also went through every goal conceded to see if they stemmed from a cleared corner that subsequently came back.  There were none.

It bucks our traditional thinking undoubtedly, but maybe we are the ones who need to change???

(For info, last season the average across the whole of the season was 6.67 goals conceded from corners per team….so about 3 times the average so far).  If our new way of defending saves us 3 / 4 goals per season, that’s worth doing)

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