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Joe Williams out Sunday?


DT The Optimist
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2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I agree. I thought the sky pundits were very biased in this case and ignored the fact that Ostigard was also fouling HNM, calling it a blatant penalty. 

I’ve just watched the Sky coverage, unbelievably biased, especially Goodman.

Also plenty of our fans I saw posting on here and social media at half time saying how we should be 4 down, what??

I don’t get it, they didn’t have the players good enough to put the ball in the back of the net, simple. We at that stage had more shots on target. I’m not saying they hadn’t played better than us but as the decent pundit, Glen Murray said at half time, we were one up and deserved it.

Some of our fans love to analyse how good our opponents are, our mistakes but ignore the good things we do.

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14 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s something I’ve noticed all season. The way we set up from corners. 
We have the 3 best headers on the 6 yard box and then we have 3 or 4 ‘blockers’. These blockers aren’t necessarily there to challenge aerially with their opponents, just to delay their arrival, allowing one of the 3 designated ‘headers’ to have the advantage to win the ball. 
We’re not the only ones who do it. Most teams seem to be setting up in a similar fashion this season. Stoke did as well. 
From what I’ve seen of it from ourselves though, our ‘blockers’ don’t tend to be very good at blocking and ultimately end up running back with their opponent, making it appear as though they are marking him - but just end up getting in the way of our designated headers. 
 

I agree re leaving a man up. And I agree, I’d let HNM do it, because he frequently loses his man at these set pieces. 

I agree. Glad you noticed as well. Static headers of the ball very rarely win a header against offensive players on the move, mobile so to speak. The blockers often don't block. We see our headers of the ball static marking space. The offence lose their marker/blocker and often have free headers. Couple examples yesterday where it was easier to score for Stoke from those situations.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

We usually have every player back I think

Just gone through a random sample of defensive corners all the way back to QPR.  All 10 outfield players back, every corner….typically 4 lined across the 6 yard line….the other 6 blockers and markers.  I hadn’t noticed this.

Out of interest, have we conceded any from a corner this season?  None.  If you count O’Hare’s (Cov) from a header to the edge of the box, then it’s one.  The average goals conceded per corner is 2.25 per team.

So much as most of us old-schoolers would prefer a player left upfield, there is a strong argument in the numbers to suggest having every man back is better.

I also went through every goal conceded to see if they stemmed from a cleared corner that subsequently came back.  There were none.

It bucks our traditional thinking undoubtedly, but maybe we are the ones who need to change???

(For info, last season the average across the whole of the season was 6.67 goals conceded from corners per team….so about 3 times the average so far).  If our new way of defending saves us 3 / 4 goals per season, that’s worth doing)

Edited by Davefevs
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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just gone through a random sample of defensive corners all the way back to QPR.  All 10 outfield players back, every corner….typically 4 lined across the 6 yard line….the other 6 blockers and markers.  I hadn’t noticed this.

Out of interest, have we conceded any from a corner this season?  None.  If you count O’Hare’s (Cov) from a header to the edge of the box, then it’s one.  The average goals conceded per corner is 2.25 per team.

So much as most of us old-schoolers would prefer a player left upfield, there is a strong argument in the numbers to suggest having every man back is better.

I also went through every goal conceded to see if they stemmed from a cleared corner that subsequently came back.  There were none.

It bucks our traditional thinking undoubtedly, but maybe we are the ones who need to change???

(For info, last season the average across the whole of the season was 6.67 goals conceded from corners per team….so about 3 times the average so far).  If our new way of defending saves us 3 / 4 goals per season, that’s worth doing)

Yeah whatever works is fine by me.

11 players defending would usually mean a better chance. I think Leicester sometimes left 2 up top in the title winning season. So many different ways, and with choosing to go zonal, man or a mix of both.

 

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah whatever works is fine by me.

11 players defending would usually mean a better chance. I think Leicester sometimes left 2 up top in the title winning season. So many different ways, and with choosing to go zonal, man or a mix of both.

 

Some additional info I read recently:

 

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64B5A9E3-72C3-48BB-921C-ED36C8AC850B.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just gone through a random sample of defensive corners all the way back to QPR.  All 10 outfield players back, every corner….typically 4 lined across the 6 yard line….the other 6 blockers and markers.

Out of interest, have we conceded any from a corner this season?  None.  If you count O’Hare’s (Cov) from a header to the edge of the box, then it’s one.  The average goals conceded per corner is 2.25 per team.

So much as most of us old-schoolers would prefer a player left upfield, there is a strong argument in the numbers to suggest having every man back is better.

I also went through every goal conceded to see if they stemmed from a cleared corner that subsequently came back.  There were none.

It bucks our traditional thinking undoubtedly, but maybe we are the ones who need to change???

(For info, last season the average across the whole of the season was 6.67 goals conceded from corners per team….so about 3 times the average so far).  If our new way of defending saves us 3 / 4 goals per season, that’s worth doing)

Interesting, it always winds me up that we have everyone back, as the ball is cleared and immediately puts you back under pressure and no chance of a breakaway goal. So good to know I need to change my view point.

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Just now, sh1t_ref_again said:

Interesting, it always winds me up that we have everyone back, as the ball is cleared and immediately puts you back under pressure and no chance of a breakaway goal. So good to know I need to change my view point.

Me too.  I like defenders on the post….the stats tell me I’m wrong.  The mind plays tricks….the bit above about leaving players offside is a very good point.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

I didn’t see Ostigard pull hair. What I saw was HNM grappling and then Ostigard trying to release himself, which he did by trying to get his left arm over the top of HNm’s head. 
You’ll see it quite clearly broken down in the pics below. 
Look carefully at Ostigard’s left arm. You’ll see clearly that he’s trying to get it over the head, not touching his hair at all. 
It’s a penalty every day of the week. 
 

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The initial hairpull might be happening in frame one and two there but following that it was very clear.

Sky froze it just as Massengo had his hair tugged by both the right and left hand of Ostigard and how you expect Massengo to watch the ball when his head is being held, I don't know!

 

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12 minutes ago, mozo said:

The initial hairpull might be happening in frame one and two there but following that it was very clear.

Sky froze it just as Massengo had his hair tugged by both the right and left hand of Ostigard and how you expect Massengo to watch the ball when his head is being held, I don't know!

 

He shouldn’t have got himself in that position (HNM). 
I agree that there was an element of a hair pull later in the grapple, but the grapple was instigated by HNM and LO was trying to get away, the fact HNM didn’t let go meant that LO ended up wrestling back with him and the hair pull occurred. 
 

As I say, end of the day, if that was the other way round, I’m confident everyone on here would be screaming for a penalty. 

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7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Michael O'Neil's post game comments were massively disrespectful to us and incredibly one-eyed. Apparently, they "should have had a penalty". I suppose he didn't notice the handball in their box in the first half?

That guy has gone right down in my estimation.

Not sure what game you were watching Red-Robbo  but I thought he had it spot on tbh

Ours was never a penalty as it shot up off his foot and they should of had one when Han Noah went all in wrestling with their bloke.

Also we were fortunate to keep 11 on the pitch after a couple of reckless challenges. 

Quite an honest view from O'Neil I thought.

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20 minutes ago, Harry said:

He shouldn’t have got himself in that position (HNM). 
I agree that there was an element of a hair pull later in the grapple, but the grapple was instigated by HNM and LO was trying to get away, the fact HNM didn’t let go meant that LO ended up wrestling back with him and the hair pull occurred. 
 

As I say, end of the day, if that was the other way round, I’m confident everyone on here would be screaming for a penalty. 

How dare you lay any blame at la porte of le petit Prince au cheveux magnifique?!

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9 minutes ago, Mike Stone said:

Not sure what game you were watching Red-Robbo  but I thought he had it spot on tbh

Ours was never a penalty as it shot up off his foot and they should of had one when Han Noah went all in wrestling with their bloke.

Also we were fortunate to keep 11 on the pitch after a couple of reckless challenges. 

Quite an honest view from O'Neil I thought.

 

Well I disagree and as the ref did too, you and Michael O'Neil can go take a running one... 🙂👍

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1 hour ago, Mike Stone said:

Not sure what game you were watching Red-Robbo  but I thought he had it spot on tbh

Ours was never a penalty as it shot up off his foot and they should of had one when Han Noah went all in wrestling with their bloke.

Also we were fortunate to keep 11 on the pitch after a couple of reckless challenges. 

Quite an honest view from O'Neil I thought.

Their player, even though it comes off of his boot, prevents a cross coming in. His hand was well away from his body and IMO it could easily have been a Pen.

I've watched it back, from where I was he won the ball, from first couple of views, he wins the ball. Not until I saw the other angle you can see he was very lucky to stay on. I've screen shotted because I can't be arsed to clip the video, but you can see while he might get a bit of the ball, the follow through could have been nasty.

651170788_Screenshot2021-11-25at20_00_27.png.cdb802100f72b708ba8cbedc5e808d53.png

 

 

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32 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Their player, even though it comes off of his boot, prevents a cross coming in. His hand was well away from his body and IMO it could easily have been a Pen.

I've watched it back, from where I was he won the ball, from first couple of views, he wins the ball. Not until I saw the other angle you can see he was very lucky to stay on. I've screen shotted because I can't be arsed to clip the video, but you can see while he might get a bit of the ball, the follow through could have been nasty.

651170788_Screenshot2021-11-25at20_00_27.png.cdb802100f72b708ba8cbedc5e808d53.png

 

 

1066431080_Screenshot2021-11-25at20_02_39.png.c6337b5ad8ab70d2579f40a1880b5d5a.png

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Trying to recall the game fairly recently where an opponent went over the top half of the ball, and we didn’t even get a free-kick.  You take a risk doing that.  Scott was lucky…looked fine in real time from the LS.

I know it’s different but Joe Allen’s first yellow is reckless, endangers an opponent too.  A player taken out knee high at full-tilt is bloody dangerous, but always seen as a “good foul”.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Trying to recall the game fairly recently where an opponent went over the top half of the ball, and we didn’t even get a free-kick.  You take a risk doing that.  Scott was lucky…looked fine in real time from the LS.

I know it’s different but Joe Allen’s first yellow is reckless, endangers an opponent too.  A player taken out knee high at full-tilt is bloody dangerous, but always seen as a “good foul”.

Barnsley? Rings a bell.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know it’s different but Joe Allen’s first yellow is reckless, endangers an opponent too.

The one on COD ?  That was horrible, I've seen Reds for similar from behind. Because the ball was about 20 yards away there wasn't even any pretence of going for the ball. Any other time if you went ip to a player while the ball was so far away and kicked them, you'd be off.

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17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just gone through a random sample of defensive corners all the way back to QPR.  All 10 outfield players back, every corner….typically 4 lined across the 6 yard line….the other 6 blockers and markers.  I hadn’t noticed this.

Out of interest, have we conceded any from a corner this season?  None.  If you count O’Hare’s (Cov) from a header to the edge of the box, then it’s one.  The average goals conceded per corner is 2.25 per team.

So much as most of us old-schoolers would prefer a player left upfield, there is a strong argument in the numbers to suggest having every man back is better.

I also went through every goal conceded to see if they stemmed from a cleared corner that subsequently came back.  There were none.

It bucks our traditional thinking undoubtedly, but maybe we are the ones who need to change???

(For info, last season the average across the whole of the season was 6.67 goals conceded from corners per team….so about 3 times the average so far).  If our new way of defending saves us 3 / 4 goals per season, that’s worth doing)

Why are'nt you employed by City as an analyst/coach ?  Your research and insight are plain to see and hear,  on here and on the podcasts.........City could do with someone like you?  And NO I am not blowing smoke  Ha1  PS. Loved the way u corrected Ian on the latest Pod!!

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25 minutes ago, maxjak said:

PS. Loved the way u corrected Ian on the latest Pod!!

I see it as my public duty 🤣🤣🤣

Thanks for nice comments.  Just a hobbyist, I enjoy doing all the analysis and stats stuff.  Even started doing some for the Women’s team too (which I do know found their way to Lauren Smith).

 

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42 minutes ago, marmite said:

Strange how so many on here are applauding our new gamesmanship methods and shithousery during recent games, but many would not have wanted the master of it, one Neil Warnock , anywhere near our club.  (Tin hat on)

There's no need to have Colin (thank fk), to be able to perform some shithousery.

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Just listening briefly to Nige’s pre Sheff Utd interview….

Joe Williams has got a bit of damage(Nige’s words). Different type of injury to previous, not sure how long it will take.

James and King in contention soon. Looks like the midfield that ended on Wednesday might well start on Sunday!

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