FBC Live Podcast @ 4.00 PM - can we draw any positives from that gutless display at snowy Bramhall Lane?

[headhunter]

Listen Live: https://www.podbean.com/lsw/voj3TKjf6G?lsid=8G0kyt2NIOG [this link is only valid 4.00-5.15 PM today - recording on a new link later].

We knew Williams would be out but this was another performance that ranks amongst the worst we've seen from City since June 2020..

Ian, Mark & DaveP will discuss the match action and read out any comments you make on this thread.

We hope Bakes is OK.

Who would you have as a 33 year old striker: Eddie McGoldrick or Chris Martin.

Didn't you just know Sharp would make it 4 in 5 against us after he came on!!!

[Bazooka Joe]

Positives?

That's going to be a very short session, Probably less than ten seconds.

[Guest]

Without any experienced central midfield players today what would you have done that NP didn’t?
 

[Hazelboy]

Only positive to come out of today is that, surly everything planned has to be brought forward to the January window. Even SL can’t be stupid enough to sleepwalk into another relegation! 

[GeoTheCiderHead]

The only and I mean only positive for me is that I didn’t go. Fair play to the 600 odd that did. A superb turnout for a 350 mile round trip 12:30pm KO in the pissing down snow. Should be refunded. 

[daored]

Sure today is going to be a negative show, but post Stoke game contributors were positive about team spirit and attitude. Tonight on Radio Bristol saying should be sacked - consistent approach from contributors rather than reactive ?

[bcfc01]

Having James, Williams, King, and Tanner not available didn't help. It left us with a very young and lightweight midfield that offered no protection to the defence, nothing going forward, and basically got ripped a new one.

Having Bakinson back to ambling around and bottling challenges and the team not being able to string two passes together also didn't help.

Only positives for me were Vyner and O'Dowda having good games, with Kalas and Baker (hope hes ok) not far behind.

Massengo was busy but left gaps all over the place, Scott and Benarous were not at the races (although both gave 100% commitment). Martin and Weimann not in the game and didn't do to much to try to get in it imo.

Ref was a ****.

Hard watch today............again.

 

[Curr Avon]

Fail to plan and plan to fail.

Here endeth today's lesson.

 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, daored said:

Sure today is going to be a negative show, but post Stoke game contributors were positive about team spirit and attitude. Tonight on Radio Bristol saying should be sacked - consistent approach from contributors rather than reactive ?

Who was on BBCRB this evening suggesting Nige should be sacked? 

[Curr Avon]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Who was on BBCRB this evening suggesting Nige should be sacked? 

Ian. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Ian. 

Blige!

He was trying to peddle that notion on Thursday’s pod too.  I shall have to listen back to post-match radio.

[daored]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Blige!

He was trying to peddle that notion on Thursday’s pod too.  I shall have to listen back to post-match radio.

Wasn’t sure of the guys name thank you @Curr Avon

[Davefevs]

Just listened over lunch.  Fair play to Ian, he doesn’t half come up with a good set of arguments to back up his view…shame they usually contradict the arguments he made  the previous game or the one before that!  Gary Owers response to him was very good.

13 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Fail to plan and plan to fail.

Here endeth today's lesson.

 

what does that mean in the context of yesterday’s game?

[2015]

The Positives? Hopefully not as cold next weekend at home to Derby, I guess.

[BS4 on Tour...]

22 hours ago, headhunter said:

Listen Live: https://www.podbean.com/lsw/voj3TKjf6G?lsid=8G0kyt2NIOG [this link is only valid 4.00-5.15 PM today - recording on a new link later].

Who would you have as a 33 year old striker: Eddie McGoldrick or Chris Martin.

Well, Eddie McGoldrick is 56 years old - but he wasn’t a bad player mind ...

[mossey]

Sad and shame to read this in a match report, is this how we are set up and go into games? Seems very negative if is, I know not the greatest of squads, but surely still should be doing better than we are.

I think that the players just don’t like, and are unhappy with what they’re being asked to do and way to play. Must admit though Pearson was a great appointment and needed, not now, even he doesn’t look as if he wants to be here.

[Davefevs]

So, we need to sack the manager now to give the new manager the January transfer window.

Also, we won’t have any real scope to change the squad in the January window.

So the objective of sacking the manager is…..

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, mossey said:

Sad and shame to read this in a match report, is this how we are set up and go into games? Seems very negative if is, I know not the greatest of squads, but surely still should be doing better than we are.

I think that the players just don’t like, and are unhappy with what they’re being asked to do and way to play. Must admit though Pearson was a great appointment and needed, not now, even he doesn’t look as if he wants to be here.

Don’t believe the rhetoric of that report.  They weren’t time wasting.  They were doing what virtually every other Championship players does when the ball is near them and the opposition think they might be able to take a quick set-play….they kick it away.  Every ref lets you do this, until yesterday.

Bill Sharp did it, got booked.  Was he time wasting?  No, it’s just part of the game.  I dislike it and I actually wish all refs did what Geoff Eltringham did yesterday…actually apply the rules.

[daored]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, we need to sack the manager now to give the new manager the January transfer window.

Also, we won’t have any real scope to change the squad in the January window.

So the objective of sacking the manager is…..

 

Firstly all this sack Pearson (results / performances aren’t great) but nobody gives a suggestion of who to replace him with? If we were to replace Pearson you would imagine it would be with an out of work manager as surely we wouldn’t be in a position to pay compensation and that pool is limited 

Secondly, if you sack Pearson the guys on a three year contract and I’d imagine on a decent package. So any spare money we have will go on replacing Pearson and not on squad improvements 

Covid has hit us hard, like many other clubs. You can argue mis-management from the top. The Lansdowns to have invested as much as they have into this club and to be a bottom six is criminal and where the real questions have to be asked 

Finally , despite my comment above, this league is disproportionate from a finance perspective. Parachute payments  have to be looked at (but then you have exceptions such as Coventry , Brentford who show what well managed clubs can achieve)

[GrahamC]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Blige!

He was trying to peddle that notion on Thursday’s pod too.  I shall have to listen back to post-match radio.

Hardly a surprise, is it?

**** me, he comes out with some drivel.

Three different teams picked for each game & never once been wrong about anything.

[mossey]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t believe the rhetoric of that report.  They weren’t time wasting.  They were doing what virtually every other Championship players does when the ball is near them and the opposition think they might be able to take a quick set-play….they kick it away.  Every ref lets you do this, until yesterday.

Bill Sharp did it, got booked.  Was he time wasting?  No, it’s just part of the game.  I dislike it and I actually wish all refs did what Geoff Eltringham did yesterday…actually apply the rules.

It’s not just the time wasting, it’s the negative aspect as well, from all the reports I’ve read, and comments from people who went to the game, appears if they start and play the game, not believing that they can win, or even want to win.

I don’t like to see them ever lose, but if they put in the effort and a shift, come off the pitch, worn out from trying, ii don’t mind as much, but don’t think, or feel that’s the case at the moment, even Pearson looks half hearted now.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, daored said:

Finally , despite my comment above, this league is disproportionate from a finance perspective. Parachute payments  have to be looked at (but then you have exceptions such as Coventry , Brentford who show what well managed clubs can achieve)

Yep, we give this great exterior lens of being well run….because people mistake a nice ground (debate, discuss) and a nice, but crappy-named training ground for being well-run.  What we are is well-backed financially.  Well run, not a hope.  Poorly run.  Not once have we finished any season since we’ve been back up as top of the min-league of clubs that got promoted around the same time as us, e.g. Brentford, Huddersfield, Preston, Millwall, etc.. I didn’t even add Sheffield United, Wolves, etc (ok, I just did ).  We have not maximised our position.

46 minutes ago, mossey said:

It’s not just the time wasting, it’s the negative aspect as well, from all the reports I’ve read, and comments from people who went to the game, appears if they start and play the game, not believing that they can win, or even want to win.

I don’t like to see them ever lose, but if they put in the effort and a shift, come off the pitch, worn out from trying, ii don’t mind as much, but don’t think, or feel that’s the case at the moment, even Pearson looks half hearted now.

That’s a different debate.  I don’t think a team containing Scott, O’Dowda, Bakinson, Benarous, Massengo, Weimann and Martin is negative….we just played crap.  The key is understanding why that is.  I think a problem (not the whole problem by any stretch) is the ability to lift us from a poor start.  You need characters.  Joe Williams dragged himself and the team up on Wednesday.

[Curr Avon]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

what does that mean in the context of yesterday’s game?

I would have put Vyner into central midfield to add some steel, with Atkinson partnering Baker and Kalas. I would have swapped Benarous for Han, who could operate behind the front two and turnover possession, with Semenyo for Scott.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

I would have put Vyner into central midfield to add some steel, with Atkinson partnering Baker and Kalas. I would have swapped Benarous for Han, who could operate behind the front two and turnover possession, with Semenyo for Scott.

Fair enough.  But isn’t that a bit hypocritical about square pegs in round holes?  Has Antoine ever started a game at RWB, is Vyner a midfielder? This week’s pod wound me up in the amount of “double standards” used.

Another example - We need to recruit better than we have vs we should get a Lg1 (Smith) or Lg2 (Matt) journeyman?

We are only out of the relegation places because of points deductions.  Nice narrative, factually incorrect.

We need to play through the thirds vs we can’t string two passes together.

I have no problem with you guys being critical of the performance at all, we were pretty bad, but some of the rationale / logic lost you credibility.

Sorry, rant over.

[Curr Avon]

43 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Fair enough.  But isn’t that a bit hypocritical about square pegs in round holes?  Has Antoine ever started a game at RWB, is Vyner a midfielder? This week’s pod wound me up in the amount of “double standards” used.

Another example - We need to recruit better than we have vs we should get a Lg1 (Smith) or Lg2 (Matt) journeyman?

We are only out of the relegation places because of points deductions.  Nice narrative, factually incorrect.

We need to play through the thirds vs we can’t string two passes together.

I have no problem with you guys being critical of the performance at all, we were pretty bad, but some of the rationale / logic lost you credibility.

Sorry, rant over.

Vyner did play in midfield against Swansea last season and Semenyo isn't a RWB, but neither is Scott and I'm probably clutching at straws here. My confused logic was that without Williams or James, our glue if you like, then the midfield would fall apart. 

City only need a replacement/back-up for Martin, if they continue to play the ball long. The players we suggested were clutching at straws. Jamille Matt? What was I thinking? Never going to happen.

I want us to play through the thirds too and hate this 'lump it' style we've regressed into.

Apologies if I mentioned the points deduction narrative.

I try to make light of the subject matter where I can and don't present arguments like Ian.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Vyner did play in midfield against Swansea last season and Semenyo isn't a RWB, but neither is Scott and I'm probably clutching at straws here. My confused logic was that without Williams or James, our glue if you like, then the midfield would fall apart. 

City only need a replacement/back-up for Martin, if they continue to play the ball long. The players we suggested were clutching at straws. Jamille Matt? What was I thinking? Never going to happen.

I want us to play through the thirds too and hate this 'lump it' style we've regressed into.

Apologies if I mentioned the points deduction narrative.

I try to make light of the subject matter where I can and don't present arguments like Ian.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Mark - you don’t need to apologise, your entitled to your view / opinion as much as the next person.

I honestly don’t care how we play.  I don’t think playing through the thirds necessarily means entertaining football, in the same way that going direct isn’t necessarily dull and boring either.

For a team that don’t pass it well at the mo’, I’d rather we didn’t play too much in our own half…but I don’t think we “bomb it” every time either.  Do we really want Kalas and Baker splitting inside the penalty area against a good pressing team?

Dont fall into the trap of thinking Ian presents good arguments either.  There are holes and contradictions all over the place.

[daored]

50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Mark - you don’t need to apologise, your entitled to your view / opinion as much as the next person.

I honestly don’t care how we play.  I don’t think playing through the thirds necessarily means entertaining football, in the same way that going direct isn’t necessarily dull and boring either.

For a team that don’t pass it well at the mo’, I’d rather we didn’t play too much in our own half…but I don’t think we “bomb it” every time either.  Do we really want Kalas and Baker splitting inside the penalty area against a good pressing team?

Dont fall into the trap of thinking Ian presents good arguments either.  There are holes and contradictions all over the place.

We have a squad of players that in my opinion are better than currently showing. Bentley needs the captaincy taken off him, we need someone in the middle of the pitch in the refs ear. Bentley can’t do that, we also need someone who can pull the team together when we’re up against it. Not saying Bentley isn’t a good communicator or captain but we need someone in the action. 
I want Pearson and his team to coach us, I want to see a structure to our play and an indication that the players are implementing a game plan. Win, lose or draw.

Talk of a target man , Martin isn’t a target man but you can play the ball into his chest and feet. Buying Smith from Rotherham or another, isn’t going to change anything. Martin needs runners off him to lay the ball and so would Smith. Something we don’t do, is turn a defence.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 28/11/2021 at 14:41, headhunter said:

Who would you have as a 33 year old striker: Eddie McGoldrick or Chris Martin.!

Further to my post about Eddie McGoldrick being well into his 50s now (decent player at Arsenal back in the day tho) I thought I’d point out that, despite your thread title, the Blades play at Bramall Lane - I only pointed out these two mistakes as you are probably keen to promote your podcast - but credibility could suffer if you make basic errors - good luck

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, daored said:

We have a squad of players that in my opinion are better than currently showing. Bentley needs the captaincy taken off him, we need someone in the middle of the pitch in the refs ear. Bentley can’t do that, we also need someone who can pull the team together when we’re up against it. Not saying Bentley isn’t a good communicator or captain but we need someone in the action. 
I want Pearson and his team to coach us, I want to see a structure to our play and an indication that the players are implementing a game plan. Win, lose or draw.

Talk of a target man , Martin isn’t a target man but you can play the ball into his chest and feet. Buying Smith from Rotherham or another, isn’t going to change anything. Martin needs runners off him to lay the ball and so would Smith. Something we don’t do, is turn a defence.

Agree with much of that.  I think what is evident is how key certain players are.  Two genuine “old skool” leaders - James and Williams - in my book.  Baker a leader of physicality (to his own detriment), Kalas a leader by example.  Bents is a shouter….I don’t care if he has the arm band or not, when Williams and James are missing we look different.  That’s not to say we always play well with them, but we aren’t the same without them.  Midfield is key.

I saw structure early in the season.  I saw method.

I saw grit and determination last week, a bit of structure, but mainly off the cuff as we learned the new system on the job.

I genuinely feel we had to go back to go forward, and we are still in that “gone back” stage.  Hence why the constant “we haven’t progressed under Nige since he came”, gets on my nerves.  We were always gonna go backwards to a large extent.  We lost loads of players in the summer.  They left for £0, no fee to reinvest.  Even one player under contract (Nagy) left for free.  Did people genuinely think it was gonna be seamless transition?  Just because he was here last season doesn’t mean the summer upheaval would be easy.  This is a big change…in part because of the dire financial situation.  If we were sat there with a sustainable balance sheet, with a transfer market with value in it, you could trade your way out if it.  But we aren’t.  We can’t even sell players to cover the losses, let alone replace them like for like.  It’s painful, it’s gonna be slow progress, and yes, it feels like no progress at all at the mo’.

But if you want to rip it up and start again, the new manager isn’t starting from scratch, he’s starting with his hands tied too.  Probably trying to come to terms with the wages and contracts dished out to players in boom-time that no relevance today, and you can’t move them on.

I’m far from happy, because I want us to be doing better, but where we are is where we are!

Perhaps I just see a different problem?

[bcfc01]

3 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Vyner did play in midfield against Swansea last season and Semenyo isn't a RWB, but neither is Scott and I'm probably clutching at straws here. My confused logic was that without Williams or James, our glue if you like, then the midfield would fall apart. 

City only need a replacement/back-up for Martin, if they continue to play the ball long. The players we suggested were clutching at straws. Jamille Matt? What was I thinking? Never going to happen.

I want us to play through the thirds too and hate this 'lump it' style we've regressed into.

Apologies if I mentioned the points deduction narrative.

I try to make light of the subject matter where I can and don't present arguments like Ian.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

He doesn't "present an argument", he just sounds off on a game by game basis imo.

Knee jerker.

He's the bloke in the pub that you try to have a conversation with and realise that it isn't going to happen as its only his voice and opinion that he's interested in and you give him a swerve afterwards.