Nigel hints at shirkers in the club, but who ?

[Bat Fastard]

15 hours ago, Pezo said:

In what way?

You only have to look through this forum to see an awful lot of pretty dispiriting criticism of players and staff.  People seem to be reluctant to weigh current realities and difficulties and it may serve the club and our very young squad rather better if there was more support and less condemnation of everyone from the owner, to the manager, to the players, to the staff and even to youngsters who have just earned contract extensions and lately scored a winning goal. Positive support may well help whereas the negative criticism just cast a pall of doom over everything.

[Harry]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Typically LJ named players in a post-match interview.  That’s what I mean.

 

I think there’s a fair bit of revisionism when it comes to LJ. 
I don’t remember him calling out players after almost every game. In fact, it hardly happened at all. 
I recall Magnússon away at Preston, but that aside I don’t think there were too many more examples. 
 

One thing that often gets overlooked regarding LJ was his handling of the Tomlin situation. Fans were baying for him to be played, and LJ could’ve come out numerous times and called Tomlin out, but he never did. In fact, he kept everything completely ‘in-house’ and by doing so managed to recoup the £3m fee. 
I think that should be remembered and LJ should be looked at very positively in that particular ‘player-issue’ situation. 
 

As other posters have said, I am getting a little tired of Nigel’s comments regarding ‘these players’. The hand has been dealt and he has to play with it. I don’t think these regular disparaging comments (even if they are anon), will be helping the morale - and given Nige is big on instilling a mentally strong dressing room, it really surprises me that he keeps calling this out publically. 

[robin_unreliant]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I think there’s a fair bit of revisionism when it comes to LJ. 
I don’t remember him calling out players after almost every game. In fact, it hardly happened at all. 
I recall Magnússon away at Preston, but that aside I don’t think there were too many more examples. 
 

I think that may be a case of memory fade over time. He definitely did it with Taylor Moore, along the lines of not being willing to put his head in where it hurts. 

My general impression was he only did it with the youngsters. Not sure if him keeping quiet over Tomlin was due to cleverness or only having the balls to have a dig at the kids who couldn't stand up to him. 

[Harry]

3 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I think that may be a case of memory fade over time. He definitely did it with Taylor Moore, along the lines of not being willing to put his head in where it hurts. 

My general impression was he only did it with the youngsters. Not sure if him keeping quiet over Tomlin was due to cleverness or only having the balls to have a dig at the kids who couldn't stand up to him. 

It happened rarely. As I said, there was Magnússon and no doubt a couple of other incidents. You rightly raise the Moore one. 
But it didn’t happen as regularly as people want to make out. 
Nigel is calling players out (anon) after every single defeat!!! Personally I don’t mind him saying it once or twice, but it’s every bloody week. It’s getting a little tiresome in my opinion. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

look at the screen name: TafkaRMLF" = "The artist formerly known as Ralph Milne's Left Foot" (Prince fans will recognise this trick)

That’ll be straight on the ignore list then.  Left the forum, with a GDPR bang, and now back.  Not as principled as I thought she was then.  Ah well.

13 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think there’s a fair bit of revisionism when it comes to LJ. 
I don’t remember him calling out players after almost every game. In fact, it hardly happened at all. 
I recall Magnússon away at Preston, but that aside I don’t think there were too many more examples. 
 

One thing that often gets overlooked regarding LJ was his handling of the Tomlin situation. Fans were baying for him to be played, and LJ could’ve come out numerous times and called Tomlin out, but he never did. In fact, he kept everything completely ‘in-house’ and by doing so managed to recoup the £3m fee. 
I think that should be remembered and LJ should be looked at very positively in that particular ‘player-issue’ situation. 
 

As other posters have said, I am getting a little tired of Nigel’s comments regarding ‘these players’. The hand has been dealt and he has to play with it. I don’t think these regular disparaging comments (even if they are anon), will be helping the morale - and given Nige is big on instilling a mentally strong dressing room, it really surprises me that he keeps calling this out publically. 

I didn’t say almost every other game.  I said that when he did call out players it was after heavy / bad defeats as a deflection method.  Taylor Moore was another.

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I didn’t say almost every other game.  I said that when he did call out players it was after heavy / bad defeats as a deflection method.  Taylor Moore was another.

What I meant by the “every other game” was more aimed at Nige. LJ called some players out on a small number of occasions over 4 years. Nige has done it after almost every defeat in 9 months. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Harry

[Son of Fred]

14 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

It's fair to point out that it isn't Kasey Palmer's fault that he's on a massive wage here (it's Mark Ashton's fault).

However, I have zero sympathy for him not getting game time. It's clear that he's the issue - similar things have happened with almost every manager Palmer has played under. If he's disheartened, upset or annoyed, then it's time for him to finally take responsibility and at least attempt to address the issues that multiple managers have surely made clear to him. 

Quite right...he has history of taking the 'easy option.

Needs to get his chin up or his talents will be wasted.

[TonyTonyTony]

2 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Needs to get his chin up or his talents will be wasted.

His talents? A worldie of a pass every 20 games isn't talent. His work rate is no where near enough. Being good at keepy up counts for shit if you cant be arsed to run.

[maxjak]

Headline on Main Site from Nige  "Poor Decisions Cost Us"    ..................Spot on Nige, great that your so self aware?  The very first poor decision happened prior to Kick Off.............with the Line Up you chose?         

[Roger Red Hat]

3 hours ago, SecretSam said:

look at the screen name: TafkaRMLF" = "The artist formerly known as Ralph Milne's Left Foot" (Prince fans will recognise this trick)

I know a guy who is an art restorer, whose first name is Keith, but he didn't like it so he now likes to be known by his middle name of Andrew. So I refer to him as TARFKAK.

[Northern Red]

12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Headline on Main Site from Nige  "Poor Decisions Cost Us"    ..................Spot on Nige, great that your so self aware?  The very first poor decision happened prior to Kick Off.............with the Line Up you chose?         

What would you have picked?

[Harry]

As per another thread. I wonder if Simpson is actually one of these players who is not ‘on the bus’?? 

[maxjak]

Vyner in midfield Alongside Scott and Massengo ........Semenyo and O'Dowda wide  (So basically fill the midfield)    Atlinson, Kalas , Baker and Pring at the back.  Either Wells or Weimann as a lone striker?   I think it's an improvement.......but i'm no coach?  But after that performance do we have any Coach's , other than the one we turned up in ?                       

[Merrick's Marvels]

11 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Vyner in midfield Alongside Scott and Massengo ........Semenyo and O'Dowda wide  (So basically fill the midfield)    Atlinson, Kalas , Baker and Pring at the back.  Either Wells or Weimann as a lone striker?   I think it's an improvement.......but i'm no coach?  But after that performance do we have any Coach's , other than the one we turned up in ?                       

So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola?

We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances?

[maxjak]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola?

We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances?

Anybody with half an amount of grey matter could see we would be over run in midfield, and that Scott at wing back was a square peg in a round hole, and a complete waste of a creative player.  Plus Benerous and Scott are too similar to both play?...................sorry we are very consistent,  consistently poor.   I don't trust Niges decision making, and for a man who played his entire career as a central defender, he appears to have no idea how to set up a defence?  IMHO.

[BS4 on Tour...]

17 hours ago, pongo88 said:

It would be very interesting to be a spy at training to see what certain players do, or don’t do ...

We could ask Bielsa for a peek at his files? They may be a bit out of date but could give some interesting insights

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

As per another thread. I wonder if Simpson is actually one of these players who is not ‘on the bus’?? 

I doubt that, he wouldn’t be letting him have as much influence on the young players from the sideline would he?

Thats not to say he might not move on during January.  Fleming suggested he’s not here to just mentor the youngsters, he wants to play too.

[Waconda]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I doubt that, he wouldn’t be letting him have as much influence on the young players from the sideline would he?

Thats not to say he might not move on during January.  Fleming suggested he’s not here to just mentor the youngsters, he wants to play too.

He has to be shifted surely ? Not playing or likely to, he would have played yesterday if there was a chance of that.

Currently a very expensive mascot.

Never understood this signing from the beginning.  James and even King, well yes I can see a reason but Simpson just plain odd - IMO.

Edited November 29, 2021 by VT05763

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

He has to be shifted surely ? Not playing or likely to, he would have played yesterday if there was a chance of that.

Currently a very expensive mascot.

Never understood this signing from the beginning.  James and even King, well yes I can see a reason but Simpson just plain odd - IMO.

I understood the signing.  The plan was 442, Vyner first choice, Simpson to provide experienced back up.  Whether I agreed with it or not makes no difference.  FWIW I was happy enough with it.  Where every recruit was gonna be counting the pennies, re-sign the guy you know can do a job (in theory) for a season whilst you plan your long-term recruit.  One less position to worry about in the summer.

If you take @Harry’s view on recruitment, it’s also because he didn’t trust recruitment to look beyond players he knew or that came highly recommended.

Despite last week’s positive results playing 352, I still think this squad is better suited to a back four.  I think Nige knows that too.  That would give scope for Simpson to play here and there.

[Merrick's Marvels]

43 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Anybody with half an amount of grey matter could see we would be over run in midfield, and that Scott at wing back was a square peg in a round hole, and a complete waste of a creative player.  Plus Benerous and Scott are too similar to both play?...................sorry we are very consistent,  consistently poor.   I don't trust Niges decision making, and for a man who played his entire career as a central defender, he appears to have no idea how to set up a defence?  IMHO.

I hear you but take a slightly different view.

As someone with half an amount of grey matter, I looked at the starting midfield and thought "we'll do well to get a foothold in this game with that lot". But the fact of the matter is James, Williams and King were all unavailable and from what was left, the manager decided to stick as closely as possible to the side that had got decent results in the last 2 games. 

I agree completely Scott is a square peg in a round hole at wing back. However, I suspect the reason Pearson picked him there and not Semenyo is about defensive discipline and picking the one he thinks will work hardest when we haven't got the ball, especially away from home. And yes, that's a bit negative but the manager has decided his first task is to make us solid, competitive and as difficult to beat as possible. Whether you or I like it or not, there's a logic to it.

"Benarous and Scott are too similar to both play". 4 days earlier they both made significant contributions for 98 minutes in a game that finished City 1 Stoke 0.

Vyner in midfield? Dear Christ. When has that ever worked. He would have just been another passive passenger in there. 

I agree we're inconsistent, but a lot of that, not all but a lot, is to do with individuals making poor errors - and that's on the players, not the manager.

The last week has been a great example of what people mean when they say the Championship is a tough unrelenting league -  a game every 3 days, leaving little room for rest and none for meaningful work on the training pitch, for a team who spends 90+ minutes game after game chasing helter skelter after the ball, with experienced players missing, other experienced players not capable of handling such a heavy workload, young inexperienced players the same, the team full of players with more than a few basic errors in them... we could on, but let's not.

It would have taken a miracle to get any sort of result, let alone a performance, out of yesterday.  Imho.     

Edited November 29, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels

[GrahamC]

52 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola?

We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances?

Doesn’t fit the narrative though.

Win then lose, so clearly we should have made wholesale changes. 

Hindsight every time, personally I’d have rested Benarous yesterday & dropped Weimann back alongside HNM & Bakinson (as there was literally no one else to choose from in midfield) & partnered Martin with either Semenyo or Wells. 2 changes, 1 of which was enforced by Williams’ absence.

I doubt it would have worked though, but saying we should have made 4 or 5 unforced changes is laughable, unless of course you are in possession of next week’s lottery numbers.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I hear you but take a slightly different view.

As someone with half an amount of grey matter, I looked at the starting midfield and thought "we'll do well to get a foothold in this game with that lot". But the fact of the matter is James, Williams and King were all unavailable and from what was left, the manager decided to stick as closely as possible to the side that had got decent results in the last 2 games. 

I agree completely Scott is a square peg in a round hole at wing back. However, I suspect the reason Pearson picked him there and not Semenyo is about defensive discipline and picking the one he thinks will work hardest when we haven't got the ball, especially away from home. And yes, that's a bit negative but the manager has decided his first task is to make us solid, competitive and as difficult to beat as possible. Whether you or I like it or not, there's a logic to it.

"Benarous and Scott are too similar to both play". 4 days earlier they both made significant contributions for 98 minutes in a game that finished City 1 Stoke 0.

Vyner in midfield? Dear Christ. When has that ever worked. He would have just been another passive passenger in there. 

I agree we're inconsistent, but a lot of that, not all but a lot, is to do with individual's making poor errors - and that's on the players, not the manager.

The last week has been a great example of what people mean when they say the Championship is a tough unrelenting league -  a game every 3 days, leaving little room for rest and none for meaningful work on the training pitch, for a team who spends 90+ minutes game after game chasing after the ball, with experienced players missing, other experienced players not capable of handling such a heavy workload, young inexperienced players the same, the team full of players with more than a few basic errors...

It would have taken a miracle to get any sort of result, let alone a performance, out of yesterday.       

Good post in response MM.

Of course it is easy to treat it like Football Manager and pick a different eleven / different system (that’s not a dig at you @maxjak, we all do it) and say Nige should’ve done this or that.  But there is a lot more to it than putting magnetic blobs on a whiteboard or writing eleven names out on a teamsheet, and I’m confident Nige and his staff put the right amount of thought into it and they thought this was the best chance of getting a result.  There are consequences to their decisions, doing the wrong thing can undermine the selection policy, confidence etc.  We don’t have to worry about that do we?

Although it was gonna be a tough task yesterday, we contributed to our own downfall to an extent.  We never really recovered from a fast United start, and that’s when you see the character (or lack of it in some cases) come through.

We didn’t get the first challenge in like O’Dowda did v Stoke, that makes your opponent think “blimey, this lot ain’t gonna make it easy today”.  Unfortunately our experienced players were at the back and up-front, not in midfield.

[Waconda]

"But there is a lot more to it than putting magnetic blobs on a whiteboard or writing eleven names out on a teamsheet"

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

"But there is a lot more to it than putting magnetic blobs on a whiteboard or writing eleven names out on a teamsheet"

 Believe it or not, whenever I put a suggested line-up on OTIB, I’ve usually spent some time looking at the opposition, how we might try to stop them when we are out of possession, how we will play through any of their various presses, how we might attack and defend set-pieces.  I don’t put 6-8 hours research per game like I was last season when I was writing my “what can we expect” threads, but I still put effort in.  I want to be able to explain my choices.  I want to be able to stand behind them.  Yeah, it might be a bit sad, but hey-ho.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

 Believe it or not, whenever I put a suggested line-up on OTIB, I’ve usually spent some time looking at the opposition, how we might try to stop them when we are out of possession, how we will play through any of their various presses, how we might attack and defend set-pieces.  I don’t put 6-8 hours research per game like I was last season when I was writing my “what can we expect” threads, but I still put effort in.  I want to be able to explain my choices.  I want to be able to stand behind them.  Yeah, it might be a bit sad, but hey-ho.

Not talking about you Sir.

But you have hit the "Nail on the Head" there.

What you are talking about is DETAIL.

[Super]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola?

We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances?

It more lacking quality than consistency. We are pretty consistent.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Super

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I hear you but take a slightly different view.

As someone with half an amount of grey matter, I looked at the starting midfield and thought "we'll do well to get a foothold in this game with that lot". But the fact of the matter is James, Williams and King were all unavailable and from what was left, the manager decided to stick as closely as possible to the side that had got decent results in the last 2 games. 

I agree completely Scott is a square peg in a round hole at wing back. However, I suspect the reason Pearson picked him there and not Semenyo is about defensive discipline and picking the one he thinks will work hardest when we haven't got the ball, especially away from home. And yes, that's a bit negative but the manager has decided his first task is to make us solid, competitive and as difficult to beat as possible. Whether you or I like it or not, there's a logic to it.

"Benarous and Scott are too similar to both play". 4 days earlier they both made significant contributions for 98 minutes in a game that finished City 1 Stoke 0.

Vyner in midfield? Dear Christ. When has that ever worked. He would have just been another passive passenger in there. 

I agree we're inconsistent, but a lot of that, not all but a lot, is to do with individuals making poor errors - and that's on the players, not the manager.

The last week has been a great example of what people mean when they say the Championship is a tough unrelenting league -  a game every 3 days, leaving little room for rest and none for meaningful work on the training pitch, for a team who spends 90+ minutes game after game chasing helter skelter after the ball, with experienced players missing, other experienced players not capable of handling such a heavy workload, young inexperienced players the same, the team full of players with more than a few basic errors in them... we could on, but let's not.

It would have taken a miracle to get any sort of result, let alone a performance, out of yesterday.  Imho.     

The reference to grey matter was aimed at the manager..not you.  Scott worked at home as a one off, but to expect him to excel away from home to a physical team like  Sheff Utd was IMHO naive and foolhardy, also a waste of his talent, that could be better utilised in the number 10 role, hence the reason Benarous is dropped, to make way for Scott   Bakinson has no cojones, I would use him at home, but not away, because he goes missing,  Vyner is not an ideal replacement, but at least he fights and gets stuck in, I would have played him there as a one off given our current injury problems.  We will never know if my side would do better than the side that our Nige picked....but I would have money on the fact that they would?  How could they possibly be worse?  Ha!  The fact the the Championship is unrelenting is exactly why i would have changed the side......and most definitely given Martin a rest, before his legs fall off?   Nige IMHO needs to find a style of play and formation that suits the players we have at present, but despite being here since Feburary, he patently has not, I don't trust him, and would replace if it was down to me.

The football we have played so far under his management is some of the worst i have ever had the misfortune to watch IMHO.

[Merrick's Marvels]

7 minutes ago, maxjak said:

The reference to grey matter was aimed at the manager..not you.  Scott worked at home as a one off, but to expect him to excel away from home to a physical team like  Sheff Utd was IMHO naive and foolhardy, also a waste of his talent, that could be better utilised in the number 10 role, hence the reason Benarous is dropped, to make way for Scott   Bakinson has no cojones, I would use him at home, but not away, because he goes missing,  Vyner is not an ideal replacement, but at least he fights and gets stuck in, I would have played him there as a one off given our current injury problems.  We will never know if my side would do better than the side that our Nige picked....but I would have money on the fact that they would?  How could they possibly be worse?  Ha!  The fact the the Championship is unrelenting is exactly why i would have changed the side......and most definitely given Martin a rest, before his legs fall off?   Nige IMHO needs to find a style of play and formation that suits the players we have at present, but despite being here since Feburary, he patently has not, I don't trust him, and would replace if it was down to me.

The football we have played so far under his management is some of the worst i have ever had the misfortune to watch IMHO.

I don't disagree with a lot of that. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, maxjak said:

The reference to grey matter was aimed at the manager..not you.  Scott worked at home as a one off, but to expect him to excel away from home to a physical team like  Sheff Utd was IMHO naive and foolhardy, also a waste of his talent, that could be better utilised in the number 10 role, hence the reason Benarous is dropped, to make way for Scott   Bakinson has no cojones, I would use him at home, but not away, because he goes missing,  Vyner is not an ideal replacement, but at least he fights and gets stuck in, I would have played him there as a one off given our current injury problems.  We will never know if my side would do better than the side that our Nige picked....but I would have money on the fact that they would?  How could they possibly be worse?  Ha!  The fact the the Championship is unrelenting is exactly why i would have changed the side......and most definitely given Martin a rest, before his legs fall off?   Nige IMHO needs to find a style of play and formation that suits the players we have at present, but despite being here since Feburary, he patently has not, I don't trust him, and would replace if it was down to me.

The football we have played so far under his management is some of the worst i have ever had the misfortune to watch IMHO.

Had we not come off a 2 game / 4 point haul in the week beforehand, with the players available, and ignoring players perhaps settling well into new roles, I’d have done this, taking into account a bit of form not formation:

Bentley

Vyner | Kalas | Atkinson | Baker

Scott | Massengo | Bakinson | O’Dowda

Weimann | Semenyo

i thought Martin would need a rest, Benarous too….plus my bias that I think we are better in a back 4 than a back 3.

But as we have come off a good win, I see why Nige did what he did, why my suggestion might’ve been too big a change.  I guess you could move Vyner to RWB, O’Dowda to LWB, but you are back to a 18,20,23 aged midfield three.

Think it was a tough call.  He might’ve got it wrong.  He could’ve done what you or I did and we lose 5-0?