steve lansdown

[NcnsBcfc]

43 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No, no it's the opposite. It's really easy to just buy "Bristol City". You just have to buy Bristol City Holdings Limited. This is the whole structure of the group (so far as I can tell from freely available info on Companies House). To buy "Bristol City FC", plus Ashton Gate, you just cut the branch as shown below.

Pula Sport would be left with all of the centre and right of this chart, and a new owner could walk off with the Football side. Bristol Sport could easily continue as a Basketball and Rugby organisation, and if it wanted to add some sort of rudimentary football club, then it could buy Mangotsfield, Bristol Manor Farm, or any other lower league Bristol based football team.

FYI, the initials in ( ) are the various directors of each company.

Do the fans still hold 1% of the share holding?

I remember being contacted for my shares by Pula Sport last year. Offering £10 per share. If i turned it down, they were using some form of compulsory purchase to turn that share into capital that would be used in the Academy? 

Not sure if I've got that completely right, it's been a long 21 months for everyone.

I've been buying and selling City shares for a long time through Cartwrights, and then Burgess Salmon Solicitors. Had some in 1982, than a Silver share subscriber in the 90's.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I could be wrong, but one thing I find rather unique about our situation (in my 30 years as a supporter) is I dont ever remember us being so shit and avoding relegation (except where we've changed manager and been saved)

At least in the past when we've been shit it hasnt tended to last too long. We have one or two bad seasons, go down, make big changes and come back up.

We've never been this consistently shit for this long in the last 30 years, and I think we're going to survive this season because of Derby and 2 teams being even shitter than us!

This is probably where someone corrects me

 

Sounds about right, what a shambles though relying on the ineptitude of others, A few years ago it looked like we had finally established ourselves in the Championship and I couldn't see us making the same mistakes of the past, how wrong I was.

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I meant without City, the rest of the organisation (Bears possibly excluded) looks somewhat low key.

In other topics on this forum, we spoke about the Sports village, and how key City would be to that as a project.

True, without the Football Club, the rest of the Group is a lot smaller, and certainly more 'low key'. 

Re the Sports Village, I believe that the land that is to be built on is owned by yet another company "Esteban Investments Limited". That is the company that made the relevant planning application at any rate, again without paying Land Registry search fees I can't be totally certain. That company is owned by Pula Sports Limited, but it is not part of the Bristol City Holdings Limited group. Pula Sport (aka "the Lansdowns") could feasibly sell "Bristol City FC" whilst keeping the "Sporting Quarter". So again, although geographically next door to AG, the Sporting Quarter isn't actually tied to it or to "the Club".

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

True, without the Football Club, the rest of the Group is a lot smaller, and certainly more 'low key'. 

Re the Sports Village, I believe that the land that is to be built on is owned by yet another company "Esteban Investments Limited". That is the company that made the relevant planning application at any rate, again without paying Land Registry search fees I can't be totally certain. That company is owned by Pula Sports Limited, but it is not part of the Bristol City Holdings Limited group. Pula Sport (aka "the Lansdowns") could feasibly sell "Bristol City FC" whilst keeping the "Sporting Quarter". So again, although geographically next door to AG, the Sporting Quarter isn't actually tied to it or to "the Club".

Thanks.

Can't help feeling that if the Lansdowns were to sell City, then the momentum behind the project would be lost though somehow.

Hence, why they are looking for "Investment" at this stage, rather than an actual buyer.

That position may well change of course, if this Village doesn't get planning permission, or after it is actually built; and everybody takes their proverbial piece of the pie.

[YorkshireSection]

5 hours ago, VT05763 said:

This is not us.

I agree. My guess would be Swansea or Huddersfield. Random feeling.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ashton Gate is owned by Ashton Gate Limited, which is owned by Bristol City Holdings Limited, the company that also owns Bristol City Football Club Limited. Bristol City Holdings Limited is then owned by Pula Sport. The Rugby Club is separate from the football element, and certainly doesn't own Ashton Gate stadium. As others have said, when you talk about selling the "Club", there needs to be some accuracy regarding what exactly is being talked about. As I understand it the entity that files accounts for P&S purposes, and so is likely the one registered as a member of the EFL, is Bristol City Holdings Limited. If that entity was sold as a share sale, then the stadium would go with it as it is owned by a subsidiary.

 

So it’s possible to buy/sell the ground with Bristol City FC but not mandatory.  
 

If the ground were to be sold to a company with Bristol City this one assumes would make Bristol Rugby squatters/renters at AG. Of course it could be argued they already are, but the clubs have the same owner currently thus it’s unlikely SL will want to kick them out.

I would also suggest the value of  Bristol Sport would be damaged well beyond the proceeds of the sale of AG and BCFC 

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

Not sure that is correct because if AG and  BCFC go together a new purchaser might well not want to ground share with rugby. And rugby would be left with ground.

 

As Ihavesaid for years BS is a potential nightmare for all.  It clearly has failed to deliver what was expected of it, ie a Bristol Barcelona.  It is a broken model.

IMO having Bristol Rugby at the ground would appeal to a buyer as this would bring in extra revenue. Looking at ground share from an opposite perspective, Wasps Rugby club bought the Ricoh Stadium when it moved from High Wycombe and subsequently allowed Coventry football club to ground share. 

[East End Old Boy]

2 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Well in my 55+ years I certainly do. The manager? Alan Dicks who just survived annually for many years.

He eventually got a team together based around young players who got us promoted to the top flight.

Lesson for us all there which some of us learned many years ago....

As Jonesey would say "DON'T PANIC"

This is soooo true!

Who could ever forget the chant “Dicks Out” and some did!

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

OK then that means that SL’s flagship idea of BS will be dead in the water and it would be legitimate to question what degree of harm it has done over the years to BCFC.

All I am interested in is that SL and son get out of my club

Since when has it been your club, think the rest of us fans have an equal emotional input. Unless of course you have the 100 plus million quid to buy and desire to underwrite the ongoing losses, then it will  be your club. 

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Oh the irony of saying I'm on auto repeat, after commenting on the most negative poster on here whose ever post is sack NP or similar

The point being he only comes on and posts the usual nonsense when we lose to try and get a ground swell of support for his minority views.

As for half decent post, why should SL comment publicly after a loss it would serve no benefit what so ever and even if he did the usual anti SL mob would find something to moan about what is said. 

Just because someone has a different view he shouldn't be slagged off, you could reverse your second paragraph to those who support him and only come on when we win!

I don't believe anyone is asking him for an update each time we lose, but the silence is deafening. As fans (not customers) we should all be informed, this would make us a more inclusive club.

As a thought why can't he put a couple of updates out per year and publicise in advance, say at the start of the year, then we would know when we would hear from him? Just a thought

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

True, without the Football Club, the rest of the Group is a lot smaller, and certainly more 'low key'. 

Re the Sports Village, I believe that the land that is to be built on is owned by yet another company "Esteban Investments Limited". That is the company that made the relevant planning application at any rate, again without paying Land Registry search fees I can't be totally certain. That company is owned by Pula Sports Limited, but it is not part of the Bristol City Holdings Limited group. Pula Sport (aka "the Lansdowns") could feasibly sell "Bristol City FC" whilst keeping the "Sporting Quarter". So again, although geographically next door to AG, the Sporting Quarter isn't actually tied to it or to "the Club".

Esteban lists Griffiths, JL and Gavin Marshall as directors.

Just wondering, as you may know, does this mean they purchased/own the land? What I'm getting at is how come SLs name isn't involved, when he presumably purchased the land?

Also, not sure if you knew, but Pula (Guernsey) is owned by another company named Pula, based in Bermuda. 

[Tin Soldier]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

No, no it's the opposite. It's really easy to just buy "Bristol City". You just have to buy Bristol City Holdings Limited. This is the whole structure of the group (so far as I can tell from freely available info on Companies House). To buy "Bristol City FC", plus Ashton Gate, you just cut the branch as shown below.

Pula Sport would be left with all of the centre and right of this chart, and a new owner could walk off with the Football side. Bristol Sport could easily continue as a Basketball and Rugby organisation, and if it wanted to add some sort of rudimentary football club, then it could buy Mangotsfield, Bristol Manor Farm, or any other lower league Bristol based football team.

FYI, the initials in ( ) are the various directors of each company.

Great diagram explaining @ExiledAjax
Agreed, which is what I think will happen as SL appears to have lost interest in the football. We have no chairman actively involved it seems (aka J Lansdown). Only a matter of time.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Tin Soldier

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Esteban lists Griffiths, JL and Gavin Marshall as directors.

Just wondering, as you may know, does this mean they purchased/own the land? What I'm getting at is how come SLs name isn't involved, when he presumably purchased the land?

Also, not sure if you knew, but Pula (Guernsey) is owned by another company named Pula, based in Bermuda. 

Marshall is Secretary of Esteban, not a director. Only JL and Griffiths are directors.

Esteban is owned by Pula Sports, so presumably received a loan or equity injection from that Guernsey company in order to purchase any land it may own. As I said, my evidence of Esteban owning the "Sporting Quarter" is that it is Esteban that made the planning application. I haven't actually seen any Land Registry evidence, and that would be preferable.

I suspected that there would be a further parent company above Pula Sport Limited. My guess was that it was "Pula Limited", another Guernsey company. How do you know it is the Bermuda company? 

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said:

Agreed, which is what I think will happen as SL appears to have lost interest in the football. We have no chairman actively involved it seems (aka J Lansdown). Only a matter of time.

Depends what is meant by "actively involved". He's a listed director, he has to attend board meetings and sign off resolutions. He must still be involved.

One thing I wish is that the Club would clarify what they precisely mean by the title of "Chairman". To me it's an archaic hold over title from the days when a football club's main shareholder would also sit on the board. It is misleading. So far as I know JL is more of an exec director with responsibility for branding and kit, and is the UBO's rep on the board...Chief Marketing Officer maybe?

[Rich]

 

Back to the topic started by Hampshire Reds. Make no mistake, this is just another way of him/her trying to start a Pearson out discussion but, asking the owner to do something about it.

Historically that rarely happens. It would be like a vote of confidence for the manager and Lansdown doesn't do that. 

Sorry to spoil your fun HR, you'll have to think up another way of promoting the removal of Pearson. Have you tried personal attacks, or accusations of wrong doing? Perhaps accusing him of homophobia, sexism, racism?

[Galley is our king]

27 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

This is soooo true!

Who could ever forget the chant “Dicks Out” and some did!

Those were the days eh?

Seriously though, the late great Harry Dolman kept his nerve when most supporters lost theirs. SL takes very little stick compared to what Harry had to put up with, the wonderful keyboard warriors we have on here were obviously not around then. It was direct, all four sides of the ground chanting, mainly negative and aimed at the manager and directors box.

If SL has any sense he won't read the shite posted on here, some by people who never or rarely go to games and others with an agenda only they understand.

If I could have a quick chat with SL, I would remind him of those past times under Harry and suggest he takes a lesson from History.

Keep calm and carry on...

[Kid in the Riot]

42 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Marshall is Secretary of Esteban, not a director. Only JL and Griffiths are directors.

Esteban is owned by Pula Sports, so presumably received a loan or equity injection from that Guernsey company in order to purchase any land it may own. As I said, my evidence of Esteban owning the "Sporting Quarter" is that it is Esteban that made the planning application. I haven't actually seen any Land Registry evidence, and that would be preferable.

I suspected that there would be a further parent company above Pula Sport Limited. My guess was that it was "Pula Limited", another Guernsey company. How do you know it is the Bermuda company? 

Just realised "Esteban" is of course Spanish for Stephen, so that's obviously a nod as to who is really behind that company.

I've just checked the planning application forms and Esteban (Stephen!) had to serve notice on two other landowners - Bristol City Council and Ashton Gate Limited. So, I would guess Stephen bought the Sporting Quarter land through Ashton Gate Ltd...

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Depends which company owns it. I've been trying to find that out, including by searching the planning registry to try and see which company actually made the applications. If I pay I should be able to find out using the Land Registry search, but I'm being tight and want to exhaust free sources first.

You don't know for certain which company owns the training ground do you?

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10073786/filing-history

I just looked on here

[NcnsBcfc]

25 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

The only slight issues with all that is you've missed the massive jump in revenue streams on promotion 

League one teams get about 1.4 mill each from memory total from prize money and solidarity payments. 

Championship teams get around 4.65 million just from solidarity payments. 

They are already up 3 million before additional finishing positions, income from matches and any cup runs. 

Assuming SCMP is adhered too, wages to Turnover will remain low'er' on Promotion and then a team will have areas to build. 

Season in League one then as long as adhere to SCMP clubs can spend what they want  rather than FFP as they aren't bound by it

Instead 75% wages to turn over on relegation from the Champs and 60%  thereafter on predicted income. 

Interestingly wages for youth players under 21 dont count for this either  

Champs clubs are governed by ffp when they become a member of the champs. 

Afaik and you got that cut out from the ffp website, clubs cannot be held to both when they were not members. 

From memory that's 5.1 of efl ffp regulations, clubs are only accountable for FFP during Champs and above stay. 

Which is why you'll often see relegated teams being able to spend on fees on relegation. 

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/financial-fair-play-league-one-8560150

Is a decent explanation and mentions us too right at the end. 

 

Thank you, is that still the case though?

This article is from 2015, and of course talks about the  SCMP, that no longer exists.

I know that the regulations have been tightened up in recent seasons after Birmingham, Sheff Wed, Derby and Reading fell foul.

I would be surprised though if the EFL allowed League 1 clubs to be punished through FFP for spending monies that were not subject to FFP regulations when it was spent (if that makes sense).

It would be interesting to see what happens with clubs that drop from the PL down to Champ. I know the parachute payments scu it, But in theory if a club lost £50m in the PL, in 21/22 season, and then dropped into the Champ. Would that loss be taken forward into FFP as well?

Maybe one for @Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10073786/filing-history

I just looked on here

Yes, I think that company owns the Rugby training ground, but I don't think it owns the HPC as well. HPC is on Clevedon Road, and Mark Tainton is CEO of the Bears, so I'm not sure why he'd be on the board of the Company that owns the HPC.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yes, I think that company owns the Rugby training ground, but I don't think it owns the HPC as well. HPC is on Clevedon Road, and Mark Tainton is CEO of the Bears, so I'm not sure why he'd be on the board of the Company that owns the HPC.

Oh I see. So perhaps the HPC is part of Bristol City holdings then?

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Oh I see. So perhaps the HPC is part of Bristol City holdings then?

To me it logically goes under Ashton Gate Limited...but this is one of the things I am trying to find out.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

OK then that means that SL’s flagship idea of BS will be dead in the water and it would be legitimate to question what degree of harm it has done over the years to BCFC.

All I am interested in is that SL and son get out of my club

I still recall your post from a good few years ago that started my whole look into Bristol Sport that got me interested in the whole FFP stuff.  It’s all your fault!

3 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Apologies in the way I phrased it @ExiledAjax

I meant without City, the rest of the organisation (Bears possibly excluded) looks somewhat low key.

In other topics on this forum, we spoke about the Sports village, and how key City would be to that as a project.

Without the Jewel in the Crown of AG (and City), no doubt the key individual's concerned would struggle to make the financial gains out of the project, that they no doubt hope to attain.

Would you want a football stadium that isn’t used a lot if the time.  You might want to renegotiate rent with the Bears at some point, but it’s beneficial to have the stadium being used regularly.

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

True, without the Football Club, the rest of the Group is a lot smaller, and certainly more 'low key'. 

Re the Sports Village, I believe that the land that is to be built on is owned by yet another company "Esteban Investments Limited". That is the company that made the relevant planning application at any rate, again without paying Land Registry search fees I can't be totally certain. That company is owned by Pula Sports Limited, but it is not part of the Bristol City Holdings Limited group. Pula Sport (aka "the Lansdowns") could feasibly sell "Bristol City FC" whilst keeping the "Sporting Quarter". So again, although geographically next door to AG, the Sporting Quarter isn't actually tied to it or to "the Club".

It’s exactly what I’d do if I were a billionaire.  Sell the hassle of a football club where a group of fans don’t give me any credit and keep the money spinning sporting quarter and land.  You’d be a fool to do it any different wouldn’t you?

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

So it’s possible to buy/sell the ground with Bristol City FC but not mandatory.  
 

If the ground were to be sold to a company with Bristol City this one assumes would make Bristol Rugby squatters/renters at AG. Of course it could be argued they already are, but the clubs have the same owner currently thus it’s unlikely SL will want to kick them out.

I would also suggest the value of  Bristol Sport would be damaged well beyond the proceeds of the sale of AG and BCFC 

They are squatters / renters today in effect.

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

IMO having Bristol Rugby at the ground would appeal to a buyer as this would bring in extra revenue. Looking at ground share from an opposite perspective, Wasps Rugby club bought the Ricoh Stadium when it moved from High Wycombe and subsequently allowed Coventry football club to ground share. 

Yep, see above

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Esteban lists Griffiths, JL and Gavin Marshall as directors.

Just wondering, as you may know, does this mean they purchased/own the land? What I'm getting at is how come SLs name isn't involved, when he presumably purchased the land?

Also, not sure if you knew, but Pula (Guernsey) is owned by another company named Pula, based in Bermuda. 

[Davefevs]

Out of interest was Maggie’s maiden name PU-something, the LA being Lansdown?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Well in my 55+ years I certainly do. The manager? Alan Dicks who just survived annually for many years.

He eventually got a team together based around young players who got us promoted to the top flight.

Lesson for us all there which some of us learned many years ago....

As Jonesey would say "DON'T PANIC"

To be fair it was way different back then, there was no F.F.P  not so much H&S,, sit down shut up, big bucks and sky were not around and most of the players loved our club, a few are still around and follow us.

Its all about the money now as multi billionaire owners just buy the best players/managers from all over the world most of which have nothing to do with the clubs/Cities that give them a name...Liverpool, Manchester, Chelsea etc and sky now rule.

We have sold some good players recently, a few for good money, however that money has not been re-invested wisely otherwise we wouldnt be where we are now.........co-incedently exactly where we were back in the late 60`s in the 2nd Div with Man Utd who have moved on a bit, we have not.

Moving on does not mean, have a nice stadium, that we now rent it means we have SQUAD AND TEAM who want to give everything for this our club when they cross the white line, and not be thinking about their next new car or holiday.

Seen quite a few players just strolling around the pitch seemingly unbothered by whats going on around them, seems to be much effort for them, yet they still get picked again; Yes we do have some who bother but we are a long way from having any sort of a decent team atm, that is down to Pearson and his coaches; we are all over the place atm.

 

[REDOXO]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

They are squatters / renters today in effect.

 

 

I did actually say that could be argued. (But it’s not going to be an issue with the same owner)

[Sleepy1968]

29 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yes, I think that company owns the Rugby training ground, but I don't think it owns the HPC as well. HPC is on Clevedon Road, and Mark Tainton is CEO of the Bears, so I'm not sure why he'd be on the board of the Company that owns the HPC.

I case anyone cares (maybe they don't) - the field next to the Bears Training Ground is currently being dug up (ongoing for a couple of months) - maybe there is some kind of expansion going on.

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Do the fans still hold 1% of the share holding?

I remember being contacted for my shares by Pula Sport last year. Offering £10 per share. If i turned it down, they were using some form of compulsory purchase to turn that share into capital that would be used in the Academy? 

Not sure if I've got that completely right, it's been a long 21 months for everyone.

I've been buying and selling City shares for a long time through Cartwrights, and then Burgess Salmon Solicitors. Had some in 1982, than a Silver share subscriber in the 90's.

Sorry I missed this. Yeh there are still fan shareholders of Bristol City Holdings Limited. They just own such a tiny % that it's negligible. 

If you still own a share then you should be able to request a full shareholder register from Computershare. The letter you got from Pula should tell you how.

[View from the Dolman]

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest was Maggie’s maiden name PU-something, the LA being Lansdown?

The Pula is the currency of Botswana so I'd assume the name comes from there.

[NcnsBcfc]

37 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

SCMP still very much in place for league one and two. 

It's a long read but here's the efl website https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appendix-5-financial-fair-play-regulations/

Covers everything and makes for interesting bed time reading

And yeah, as far as you've said and I agree you cant be audited on the same set of accounts that were used for SCMP as FFP as the finances arent subject to the two different sets of rules and cant be judged post promotion as the team weren't in the Championship, and subject to those same rules. 

Otherwise promoted clubs would be starting without any leverage and in the case of Sunderland would have been hammered on a promotion back in their first season in League one. 

Oddly, there's nothing specific from l1 to champs anywhere, not even in the efl link above. 

 

I thought Salary caps had been scraped in L1 & L2, as the clubs appealed against the new system being bought in, and won.

Hence:-

The EFL Withdraws Salary Caps on League One and Two - Blaser Mills Law

From February this year. The EFL tried to change the system the year before.