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4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

If a player has a choice of clubs is he going to be more impressed by those who actively scouted him over several games or the one who number crunched and decided that his were the best stats? 
 

You old romantic Major ,- the player will be steered by his agent towards the club offering the most money both to the said player and of course to the agent himself.

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On 29/11/2021 at 22:56, Lrrr said:

I was told Ipswich saw someone who had all the physical attributes to be a top player who they could teach the game and skills to and help them develop to the required standard 

Heard exactly the same from his teammates in non league. Not stand out technically in any way, but clearly had the athletic capabilities to compete in the pro game. Add that to the fact the kid was, and apparently still is, truly dedicated to the nutrition/science he has just continued to develop. I can accept missing these types of player as he is a huge outlier, but would prefer if we didn’t miss them 

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13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I reckon quite a few of the senior players are in the right ball-park.

Here’s my stab:

D4071737-57AE-42F5-8DDB-375C8F70B823.thumb.jpeg.75aa8b3a38bf92781d9b5f1b002675ac.jpeg

tick - in the right ball-park

L - I reckon they’re on less

H - I reckon they’re on higher.

Weimann’s is probably last season’s before he renegotiated it.

But pure guesswork by me.

That’s not just players though, that includes all football staff.  Included MA’s half a million!

FWIW I reckon Nige cut last seasons wage bill by between £5-6m this season.

Wow. Brings into context what I think Pearson said about wanting a flatter wage structure at the club.

While I don't think money is a good motivator of people, unfairness in wages (real or perceived) can definitely be a huge demotivator. Maybe it's ignored when things are going well, but I'm sure there are a few glances around and discussions about the minutes on the pitch / wages that go on when things aren't looking so good and tensions are running a bit high.

Just shows how many factors there are to sorting the squad out, and what a negative impact poor (or unnecessary signings) can have on the club even if you ignore the raw impact on our finances.

Edited by IAmNick
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30 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Wow. Brings into context what I think Pearson said about wanting a flatter wage structure at the club.

While I don't think money is a good motivator of people, unfairness in wages (real or perceived) can definitely be a huge demotivator. Maybe it's ignored when things are going well, but I'm sure there are a few glances around and discussions about the minutes on the pitch / wages that go on when things aren't looking so good and tensions are running a bit high.

Just shows how many factors there are to sorting the squad out, and what a negative impact poor (or unnecessary signings) can have on the club even if you ignore the raw impact on our finances.

Yep, and that happens at all levels. When you’re on £20 a game, and you’ve been told that you can’t have £30 because the budget is tight and they’re trying to pay everyone a similar amount…it creates tension when you find out your teammate is on £50 and was given a £500 set of Mizuno irons when he signed.  True story by the way.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, and that happens at all levels. When you’re on £20 a game, and you’ve been told that you can’t have £30 because the budget is tight and they’re trying to pay everyone a similar amount…it creates tension when you find out your teammate is on £50 and was given a £500 set of Mizuno irons when he signed.  True story by the way.

So where are your clubs now? ?

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, and that happens at all levels. When you’re on £20 a game, and you’ve been told that you can’t have £30 because the budget is tight and they’re trying to pay everyone a similar amount…it creates tension when you find out your teammate is on £50 and was given a £500 set of Mizuno irons when he signed.  True story by the way.

I've said on here before, always take what players claim they are paid with a pinch of salt. Especially the "stars" of the local leagues.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, CodeRed said:

You old romantic Major ,- the player will be steered by his agent towards the club offering the most money both to the said player and of course to the agent himself.

Put it another way, would the club going out and watching games be more likely more often than not to get in first than the amateur outfit derided by Agents as having no presence and who have been working off a database on their club laptop? There is no defence for our recruitment set up - it's amateur.

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4 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Wow. Brings into context what I think Pearson said about wanting a flatter wage structure at the club.

While I don't think money is a good motivator of people, unfairness in wages (real or perceived) can definitely be a huge demotivator. Maybe it's ignored when things are going well, but I'm sure there are a few glances around and discussions about the minutes on the pitch / wages that go on when things aren't looking so good and tensions are running a bit high.

Just shows how many factors there are to sorting the squad out, and what a negative impact poor (or unnecessary signings) can have on the club even if you ignore the raw impact on our finances.

When you put your body on the line for £9K per week like Baker does and end up in hospital then some selfish little turd on over £25K per week who has been producing sod all for months and can't even square a ball into the middle to earn a useful point away from home in what club would that NOT create tension? Unfortunately I think the answer is ONLY BRISTOL CITY............we have far too many softies in the dressing room when it really needed someone to grab the culprit by the neck up against the dressing room wall and fill him in afterwards. It does happen at other clubs, that is fact, and doesn't get reported..........but not at ours, that is also fact, because nobody gives that much of a shit.

Edited by Numero Uno
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On 01/12/2021 at 22:18, Davefevs said:

I reckon quite a few of the senior players are in the right ball-park.

Here’s my stab:

D4071737-57AE-42F5-8DDB-375C8F70B823.thumb.jpeg.75aa8b3a38bf92781d9b5f1b002675ac.jpeg

tick - in the right ball-park

L - I reckon they’re on less

H - I reckon they’re on higher.

Weimann’s is probably last season’s before he renegotiated it.

But pure guesswork by me.

That’s not just players though, that includes all football staff.  Included MA’s half a million!

FWIW I reckon Nige cut last seasons wage bill by between £5-6m this season.

Joe Williams on 10 grand a week to play 2 games a season. What a life that is 

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On 01/12/2021 at 21:52, bcfcredandwhite said:

A lot has been made of the money spent/wasted by Ashton and LJ but look at the wage earners:

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/bristol-city/

Palmer is overpaid - which we all know (Ashton got him in against LJs wishes apparently) No - the big surprise is who is at number 5. 
Poor old Nige inherited when money was tight - that makes number 5 even more ‘interesting’ - particularly considering his age compared to the others  

 

I always thought 'number 6' was the most interesting in that he mustn't be allowed to leave .... at any costs!

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@billywedlockthanks for sharing.  Really interesting the youth stuff.  Lloyd Kelly is I think our best example.  I reckon he wasnt far away at 15 from being ready to play first team.  I watched him at Brislington in the community game and he looked better than Derrick Williams at LCB.

Scott has not looked out of place at all.  Early days with Benarous, but promising.

Got to develop the squad WITH them.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

That's why I usually think it's best to loan players out to get as many minutes as possible rather than staying in the 23s.

And I think @billywedlock's point is that if we get the scouting right and recruit the best teenagers from the South West and Wales, they should be able to go virtually straight into the first team like Scott and Benarous have.

The sad fact is we are light years behind other clubs in terms of scouting and recruitment. Southampton seem to rule the roost up here in terms of youth scouting, as they have for a while. 

IMO, we should have first refusals on teenagers from Bristol Inner City, SGS Filton College and the SW Soccer Academy (Jamie Shore's business), as well as having excellent working relationships with the likes of Exeter, Cheltenham and Plymouth.

That requires time, effort and scouts on the ground reporting as part of a coordinated effort from a head of recruitment or sporting director, whatever title you want to give them. We should be competing with the likes of Southampton for the best talent on our doorstep. 

I absolutely agree with Billy's point about SL doing everything he can outside of FFP to push us on, including investing in a Cat 1 academy and hiring the best youth coaches around if he wants the best chance of producing a team of local lads who can have us competing for PL. Otherwise, what's the point?

20+ years on from when SL first got involved and we still have little to show for it outside of the shiny facilities. 

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46 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

But you don't learn how your club plays or the players around you. Klopp has same view. If Liverpool loan out it is likely you are not seen as potential first team. Nige has said much the same about not loaning out certain players. I guess we saw both routes, Kelly one way and Reid the other. It will be interesting to see how Scott and AB develop with direct exposure, HNM too. 

That’s exactly it….was sending Freddie Hinds to Cheltenham the best move, or was him being around the first team, learning from Bobby Reid a better option.  Certainly better than then going to Wrexham.  It doesn’t matter whether he made it or not, it’s the principle behind it.

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43 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

4 -3-3 mobile front three. He explained some time ago . It is not long ball that is due to players available

 

15 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I knew the 433 part. Him saying about a mobile front 3 I had not heard. Hopefully that means a more complete striker in January to play down the middle who is mobile but also is good with balls coming from deep up to him.

I mean...fully fit side and we could start to work towards it- and I mean fully fit first choice, 1st 18...let the injuries or similar be those who fall outside the 1st XI and top subs. I think DaSilva in terms of technical ability our best LB but seems not to be the same post injury. A number of the subs are for versatility purposes.

Quote

               Bentley

Tanner Kalas Atkinson DaSilva

   Massengo James Williams

   Weimann Martin Semenyo

Subs:

O'Leary, Vyner, Baker, Pring, Bakinson or King, Scott, Wells.

Although I do err on the side of caution a bit with youth- Scott is surely ahead of Benarous at this stage.

That was my initial thoughts but DaSilva- very much doubt the injuries have helped him. I think from a technical ability POV he's our best LB. Some kind of loose front 3 of Scott-Weimann-Semenyo maybe- that would have a lot of energy and Scott unlike at WB, would still be able to help out Tanner but in a more natural position. Weimann as a wide right type striker, Semenyo wide left has a certain symmetry as well...O'Dowda has come into a bit of better form now too though...what's our most suited 4-3-3 shape when all fit? Atkinson of course would be better at carrying the ball etc than Baker although still developing of course.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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As for the striker bit, granted it's only the goals and little bits before but Wells looks quite mobile at QPR! That version was, and he scored a variety of types of goals too.

I'm not suggesting that he is or was my first choice but something has gone badly wrong here this season for him? That said Osayi-Samuel, Eze, Chair...full of creativity in and around him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auwu9ET1IqA

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

4 -3-3 mobile front three. He explained some time ago . It is not long ball that is due to players available

With power and pace.  That’s what he deems necessary for PL, which is the aim, however far that looks away at the mo’.

I’m surprised posters still think the way we are playing now is how he wants to play in 3 years time!

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17 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

You are right on Antoine , Nige has said he sees on the right side of a front three. Plus agree with JonD above, any striker coming in is going to need to be dynamic and powerful. Not necessarily a target man but someone that can get in behind at ease. As for JD , Nige was encouraging him to be braver and show what he has got, but post injury he does not seem so keen. Shame as I quite liked him when on loan. 

….and there can be quite a difference between right winger and right forward, even within a 433.  Sticking Antoine out of the touchline is not the best use of his talents.  That’s not to say he has to play down the middle (like I’d like to see), but in the spaces between LCB and LB he can really prosper.

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29 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

You are right on Antoine , Nige has said he sees on the right side of a front three. Plus agree with JonD above, any striker coming in is going to need to be dynamic and powerful. Not necessarily a target man but someone that can get in behind at ease. As for JD , Nige was encouraging him to be braver and show what he has got, but post injury he does not seem so keen. Shame as I quite liked him when on loan. 

Definitely- think it was maybe you who said it- compromises in positions, but right sided forward seems a good way forward...dynamic and powerful combined with movement?

I just fear injury has wrecked him a bit- he missed half a season in 2019/20 then there was a decent missed chunk of last year- hope I'm wrong and at 23 time is very much on his side but to get two successive major injury layoffs can damage a player in the medium term, if not long term.

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

….and there can be quite a difference between right winger and right forward, even within a 433.  Sticking Antoine out of the touchline is not the best use of his talents.  That’s not to say he has to play down the middle (like I’d like to see), but in the spaces between LCB and LB he can really prosper.

Hard to explain it but my thinking- is there a technical term for it, RW not necessarily but not central as such either- because his work and energy when out of possession to help Tanner would definitely be of use or the 2 v 1 becomes a real risk- somewhere between RW and RF?

Tomorrow though, I do concur with your post earlier in the week that Semenyo and Weimann as a pair could be interesting- and useful.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Definitely- think it was maybe you who said it- compromises in positions, but right sided forward seems a good way forward...dynamic and powerful combined with movement?

I just fear injury has wrecked him a bit- he missed half a season in 2019/20 then there was a decent missed chunk of last year- hope I'm wrong and at 23 time is very much on his side but to get two successive major injury layoffs can damage a player in the medium term, if not long term.

Hard to explain it but my thinking- is there a technical term for it, RW not necessarily but not central as such either- because his work and energy when out of possession to help Tanner would definitely be of use or the 2 v 1 becomes a real risk- somewhere between RW and RF?

Tomorrow though, I do concur with your post earlier in the week that Semenyo and Weimann as a pair could be interesting- and useful.

Antoine is 21 (22- 7th Jan).

Re Supporting the RB, very much depends what you expect the MF3 to do also.  Look at how much Henderson protects TAA rather than Salah coming back.  Passing heatmap below.

06B74B6C-E1AE-4789-A854-B39A892810FF.jpeg.cc685e7fddf786ca4e474fe6e9df7a46.jpeg

Here’s all his actions v Everton.

030652B8-7ED3-412B-BEE1-E257FF974BC5.jpeg.84d8bb0a5aeeb8ffb481ef6de6b7e225.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

With power and pace.  That’s what he deems necessary for PL, which is the aim, however far that looks away at the mo’.

I’m surprised posters still think the way we are playing now is how he wants to play in 3 years time!

Power and pace. You mentioned Oli Mcburnie in another thread he would be perfect. Trouble is his off field character isn't great and now on prem wages. Not sure what his situation is at Sheff United after his arrest earlier this year.

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On 02/12/2021 at 13:31, Davefevs said:

Yep, and that happens at all levels. When you’re on £20 a game, and you’ve been told that you can’t have £30 because the budget is tight and they’re trying to pay everyone a similar amount…it creates tension when you find out your teammate is on £50 and was given a £500 set of Mizuno irons when he signed.  True story by the way.

The big time.

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