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medical emergencies in the crowd


MattWSM

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Aside from the Covid nonsense and as the OP said, it never used to happen and why should the whole game be suspended whilst perfectly capable medics deal with the situation?

Thanks for raising this MattWSM, as this was exactly what I thought following tonights incident and our own previous ocurancies

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Maybe I'm just older but yes they have always happened at football games because people become very stressed or excited which triggers underlying conditions.

That's not to say that they are common; maybe one a season at any club .

The increased frequency could be vaccine reactions but it could equally be down to people becoming very unfit and unhealthy through lockdowns.

I suppose if you have to go then when very excited at your football team is better than confused and incontinent in a care home.

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Unless you know of the precise details of every case then it really could be anything.

Could just be that these incidents are getting reported more. Each one that happens increases interest in the next, interest snowballs as people start to think something's going on.

Could be because more games are televised, and reportedly on, you notice it more.

Could be that where they used to be dealt with in the carpark, they're now done pitchside.

Could be that there's more cokeheads at football now and they are having issues.

Could be a result of the increasing average age of a football fan coupled with decreased fitness (obesity, lower activity levels etc) in society. 

Could just be a weirdly dense frequency of these things following a freakishly quite period.

Could be none of the above. 

It's probably nothing. 

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As odd as the seeming increase of these incidents are in the crowd, of which I think all - or nearly all? - have been heart related; it's not as odd as the increase in players (and other athletes) collapsing, with a number of these also being heart related. Before everyone gets excited, there is a lot of odd things happening, and there should be a proper, impartial, investigation. Don't forget drugs companies have made mistakes before and been sued successfully for hundreds of millions of dollars. With the rush - and the prize of huge profits to them - to get vaccines developed quickly, it is entirely possible they aren't as safe as they should be.

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3 hours ago, JustinCider said:

As odd as the seeming increase of these incidents are in the crowd, of which I think all - or nearly all? - have been heart related; it's not as odd as the increase in players (and other athletes) collapsing, with a number of these also being heart related. Before everyone gets excited, there is a lot of odd things happening, and there should be a proper, impartial, investigation. Don't forget drugs companies have made mistakes before and been sued successfully for hundreds of millions of dollars. With the rush - and the prize of huge profits to them - to get vaccines developed quickly, it is entirely possible they aren't as safe as they should be.

It is possible but I don’t see any logic for immediately speculating that as the reason.

Even if you attribute it to COVID-related reasons, the vaccine is far less likely to be the reason than the fact that - whilst we have a lot to learn about long COVID - we certainly know COVID can impact on the heart and weakens heart muscles. 

www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/heart-problems-after-covid19

Anecdotally a friend of mine got COVID last year and recovered well initially but then, in the next six months, had two intensive care admissions and an angina diagnosis. Prior to getting COVID he had no health conditions and he is in his forties.

Research suggests people hospitalised through COVID have a higher mortality rate over the next year from a host of causes.

https://gizmodo.com/many-severe-covid-19-survivors-go-on-to-die-within-a-ye-1848144418

All of this could or could not be a factor but immediately jumping to vaccines rather than the highly prevalent virus known to cause long term heart problems feels a bit of an illogical leap and potentially deters people from getting the exact thing they need to reduce their risk.

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2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

 

It is possible but I don’t see any logic for immediately speculating that as the reason.

Even if you attribute it to COVID-related reasons, the vaccine is far less likely to be the reason than the fact that - whilst we have a lot to learn about long COVID - we certainly know COVID can impact on the heart and weakens heart muscles. 

www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/heart-problems-after-covid19

Anecdotally a friend of mine got COVID last year and recovered well initially but then, in the next six months, had two intensive care admissions and an angina diagnosis. Prior to getting COVID he had no health conditions and he is in his forties.

Research suggests people hospitalised through COVID have a higher mortality rate over the next year from a host of causes.

https://gizmodo.com/many-severe-covid-19-survivors-go-on-to-die-within-a-ye-1848144418

All of this could or could not be a factor but immediately jumping to vaccines rather than the highly prevalent virus known to cause long term heart problems feels a bit of an illogical leap and potentially deters people from getting the exact thing they need to reduce their risk.

Excellent post, before reading this I was beginning to believe the vaccine theory (too much time on Twitter!) Its none of our business but would be interesting to know how many of the unfortunate people this has happened to in the last couple of months have had Covid before?

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I was also pondering this last night whilst listening to R5L reporting on two games being stopped, over the years I have witnessed all sorts of things in the crowd from a nose bleed to someone’s unfortunate demise (natural causes), not once was the game stopped.  Is this a new directive?  

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7 hours ago, zippycar said:

Aside from the Covid nonsense and as the OP said, it never used to happen and why should the whole game be suspended whilst perfectly capable medics deal with the situation?

Thanks for raising this MattWSM, as this was exactly what I thought following tonights incident and our own previous ocurancies

Someone at a match is essentially dying but it’s more important for you that a game of football doesn’t stop?   For me, what is weirder, is that a game of football should continue whilst a person just yards from the action gets life saving aid 

1 minute ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I was also pondering this last night whilst listening to R5L reporting on two games being stopped, over the years I have witnessed all sorts of things in the crowd from a nose bleed to someone’s unfortunate demise (natural causes), not once was the game stopped.  Is this a new directive?  

Hopefully 

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I was wondering about this too last night and why it's only now being reported on so much.

There does seem to be something about the media repeatedly reporting a theme after an event. Almost like it's fashionable for the media to do it until they get bored of it and move on to the next thing.  I wonder if it's that. This isn't a new thing but the media just hadn't reported on it as much as it wasn't fashionable or headline grabbing for them.

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7 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Maybe I'm just older but yes they have always happened at football games because people become very stressed or excited which triggers underlying conditions.

That's not to say that they are common; maybe one a season at any club .

The increased frequency could be vaccine reactions but it could equally be down to people becoming very unfit and unhealthy through lockdowns.

I suppose if you have to go then when very excited at your football team is better than confused and incontinent in a care home.

Love the way it’s so easy to use ‘could be’ as a caveat ?

In respect of the increased frequency, does anyone know or can show us peer reviewed data from the last 40 years showing us a proportionate upward trend in cases allowing for population growth and attendance rates, across all 4 top divisions?

Can anyone substantiate in any way the phrase ‘could be vaccine related’ allowing that correlation does not always equal causation? 

 

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11 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

I was wondering about this too last night and why it's only now being reported on so much.

There does seem to be something about the media repeatedly reporting a theme after an event. Almost like it's fashionable for the media to do it until they get bored of it and move on to the next thing.  I wonder if it's that. This isn't a new thing but the media just hadn't reported on it as much as it wasn't fashionable or headline grabbing for them.

Frequency bias would be the obvious answer with the catalyst being the Eriksson incident and the fact we’ve had once this year. This is highlighted even further by the fact we are now stopping games for the incident, increasing its prominence and resonance. Social media also plays apart with images, tweets, messages shared globally and instantly. This would just not have happened 10 years ago.

Considerring the huge increases in attendances across the top 4 division over the last 40 years, I’d be interested to see any data that showed health incidents within the crowd proportionately increasing over this period.

 

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There could be any different number of reasons for this, but it does seem there is a an increase of cardiac related situations at stadiums, which mirror an increase in society as a whole.

The report on GB News is a little concerning in that it doesn't even seem to be being looked into. It's not something that can just be swept under the carpet, whether it is covid related, vaccine related, a result of lifestyle over the last couple of years, or lack of people getting earlier diagnosis.

(The title of the article below is maybe a little misleading. The researcher does say there could be many reasons, and not just the vaccine)

 

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7 minutes ago, bbew said:

There could be any different number of reasons for this, but it does seem there is a an increase of cardiac related situations at stadiums,

Sorry, I’m asking out if concern really, but when you say ‘seem’ what do you mean?

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20 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Can anyone substantiate in any way the phrase ‘could be vaccine related’ allowing that correlation does not always equal causation? 

 

All vaccines have side-effects of varying severity.

'Flu vaccine take up 2019/20 was 19m.

Covid vaccinations are currently at 164 per 100 people or 115m including second doses and boosters.

That's about six times the number of vaccines usually given in a year so an increased level of side-effects can be expected as no vaccine, and I'm not just referring to the various Covid vaccines, is wholly safe.

That isn't an "anti-vaxx" statement but a factual one.

And I have had maybe thirty vaccinations over the years.

So yes "could be" given how small are he numbers that we are talking about for medical emergencies at football games.

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7 hours ago, zippycar said:

Aside from the Covid nonsense and as the OP said, it never used to happen and why should the whole game be suspended whilst perfectly capable medics deal with the situation?

Thanks for raising this MattWSM, as this was exactly what I thought following tonights incident and our own previous ocurancies

Yes a game of football is more important than a person's life. What an idiotic post.

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25 minutes ago, bbew said:

There could be any different number of reasons for this, but it does seem there is a an increase of cardiac related situations at stadiums, which mirror an increase in society as a whole.

The report on GB News is a little concerning in that it doesn't even seem to be being looked into. It's not something that can just be swept under the carpet, whether it is covid related, vaccine related, a result of lifestyle over the last couple of years, or lack of people getting earlier diagnosis.

(The title of the article below is maybe a little misleading. The researcher does say there could be many reasons, and not just the vaccine)

 

Respectfully, given the source of this ‘news’ it has a whiff of climate change deniers to me I.e. agenda pushing.

Regardless, and even if this is true, if there was a cost benefit analysis of vaccinating compared to the risk of heart attacks I suspect 99.999…….% of scientists would still recommend vaccination. See also blood clotting.

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10 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

All vaccines have side-effects of varying severity.

'Flu vaccine take up 2019/20 was 19m.

Covid vaccinations are currently at 164 per 100 people or 115m including second doses and boosters.

That's about six times the number of vaccines usually given in a year so an increased level of side-effects can be expected as no vaccine, and I'm not just referring to the various Covid vaccines, is wholly safe.

That isn't an "anti-vaxx" statement but a factual one.

And I have had maybe thirty vaccinations over the years.

So yes "could be" given how small are he numbers that we are talking about for medical emergencies at football games.

That’s interesting. Thanks.

Whats the data on cardiac arrests?

Also you are correct to point out risks with all vaccines. Is this risk proportionately higher or have just many more people had a vaccine of some form? 

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7 hours ago, zippycar said:

The point, I believe, that the OP was making was that these incident have (sadly) always occurred, but the match/interval, was never suspended.

Yes correct that was my point.

Might be a new directive as somebody said.

But also having read the posts I now wonder if there is an actual increase in incidents as well, possibly not as like many said its always happened, could be just down to increased reporting because the games are now being halted. 

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1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Maybe games are now stopped when they weren’t before so people now get to hear more about medical emergencies. The number could be no more than normal 

I think numbers are sometimes the wrong way to look at it. The proportion is probably more relevant 

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3 minutes ago, 054123 said:

That’s interesting. Thanks.

Whats the data on cardiac arrests?

Also you are correct to point out risks with all vaccines. Is this risk proportionately higher or have just many more people had a vaccine of some form? 

 

I'm just saying that vastly more vaccines have been given which means more people having side-effects.

I do not pretend to understand the science so am not about to do selective cut and pasting from various sites of varying reliability!

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25 minutes ago, bbew said:

There could be any different number of reasons for this, but it does seem there is a an increase of cardiac related situations at stadiums, which mirror an increase in society as a whole.

The report on GB News is a little concerning in that it doesn't even seem to be being looked into. It's not something that can just be swept under the carpet, whether it is covid related, vaccine related, a result of lifestyle over the last couple of years, or lack of people getting earlier diagnosis.

(The title of the article below is maybe a little misleading. The researcher does say there could be many reasons, and not just the vaccine)

 

It's not being swept under the carpet.  Whatever politicians are like, scientists care about the truth.  But this is a single study, which hasn't yet been peer reviewed, indeed only the abstract has been published in open-access format so far, no-one has yet had a chance to try to replicate the results, and the journal that published the abstract has issued an “expression of concern” statement about it, noting that it contains “potential errors” and “may not be reliable”.

May be that's why reputable news outlets haven't jumped onto this story.  Scientists do have a good track record of identifying potential side effects once there is actual evidence, as we've seen with the vaccines that are currently used.  And a lot of work was put into another vaccine being developed in Australia that was then completely abandoned when it was found to be triggering (false) positive HIV test results.

Unfortunately in these days stories that are unreliable, statistical flukes or just plain wrong often get circulated on social media and on disreputable news outlets.

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I heard on R5L last night, that when the emergency was reported, medics from both clubs raced to deal with it. I can only assume, following the harrowing Christian Erikksen incident, that the game cannot continue if the clubs medics are not immediately ready to attend a player in an emergency. May be a new directive, and sounds logical but only a guess. 

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