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6 hours ago, tin said:

Assuming Britton plays games out on loan, it should be a good move for him as long as he applies himself.

It's sink or swim time for him. Score goals at that level and he puts himself in the shop window for another loan in January, strengthens his case to remain with us longer-term, or attracts the attention of other clubs for a permanent move away in the summer. Fail and he might end up drifting towards the likes of Gloucester City or Bath City. 

I hope it works out for him. I like natural goalscorers, especially those who can ruffle a few feathers. 

The way I read the article I took it that the league loan is already agreed, and he's going to Woking to get a bit of league match sharpness in advance of that.

1 hour ago, Tafkarmlf said:

There's been loads of times where that's happened, plucked from Non league to pro from Ian Wright, Michael Antonio, Stuart Pearce, Jamie Vardy

Etc

We've done it with Basso, and Bolasie (kinda) amongst others

For every Jamie Vardy there will be about 50 John Akinde's.....

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2 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

The way I read the article I took it that the league loan is already agreed, and he's going to Woking to get a bit of league match sharpness in advance of that.

For every Jamie Vardy there will be about 50 John Akinde's.....

Akinde has carved out a pretty decent professional career for himself to be fair.

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14 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

The way I read the article I took it that the league loan is already agreed, and he's going to Woking to get a bit of league match sharpness in advance of that.

For every Jamie Vardy there will be about 50 John Akinde's.....

Aye as mentioned Akinde has done well for himself considering.  Bounced around a bit last 4 seasons in League one afaik 32 now. 

I guess it depends what people define as success, weve to see where Johnny Smith ends up eventually and Wes Burns is at Ipswich now. 

Again players we kept for ages, didnt play, Zac Vyner also suffered from that as still now despite 100 plus (I think) Champ games he's still got the stench of going on loan and not making it, despite er, having made it. 

I get that not everyone will make it, however our strike force is awful. 

Ironically enough Chris Martin was thrown into it as part of a rubbish Norwich Team at the time,  finished 16th, yet he's the main man here. 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/just-the-start-for-talented-martin-7588136

Amazing what faith can do 

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13 minutes ago, Selred said:

They actually aren’t. Weimann is the 12th top scorer in the league, Martin is 21st. The issue is service. 

Agree.  12 goals 7 assists in 20 games each is not shabby is it?  Perhaps looking beyond our top 2 scorers to 3rd top with 1 goal is a better place to start.  They are 1st and 2nd for assists too…again next best is 1.

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12 minutes ago, Selred said:

They actually aren’t. Weimann is the 12th top scorer in the league, Martin is 21st. The issue is service. 

7 and 5 goals

Joint 12th and joint 21st.

I'm not exactly jumping for joy here, with how fantastic it is, Weimann isnt out and out striker for us 

So

Martin 5

Wells 1

Janneh had 2 in the cup

Andddd... Lots on 1 

Huge number of goals

We're 5th/6th lowest scorers in the Championship https://www.espn.co.uk/football/table/_/league/eng.2

Im not convinced that sending our strikers who do scoreon loan  is a great decision. 

I've justified that enough, have a fab Friyay

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20 hours ago, spudski said:

Imo...Britton is a natural goal scorer.

Unfortunately that isn't good enough at Championship level alone.

Snake is also a natural goal scorer but isn't deemed adequate enough for Championship level. Same can be said of many.

Imo...

Britton could train and play to the best of his ability under the best coaching, but will never reach the levels required, because of the limits on his body type. Some people will never get to a fitness level required to play Championship football, regardless of training.

Same with JET...you find a level you can deal with consistently.

Football at Championship level is all about, running and more running. Is  Britton a better 'natural' goalscorer than Weimann...imo yes...but Weimann can run all day.

The quality of 'football' has diminished over the years in the Championship, however the fitness levels have gone through the roof.

There are many natural footballers lower down the league's that will never make the grade because of limited fitness ability.

Look at Le Tissier...would never get in a championship side these days, regardless of training. 

The simple fact is...regardless of talent, if your body won't get to levels of fitness required, because it has limits, then you won't make the grade.

On a personal note I'd rather watch a team with Jackie, Doc, Noble, Worthington, Le Tissier, JET etc, than a team of Weimanns...but that's the way it's gone.

Would love the lad to prove me wrong...but my eye tells me he can't.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but not the bit about Le Tissier. He was an attacking midfielder rather than an out and out striker who scored a goal in approx every three games. Someone like that would walk into the current City team 

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1 hour ago, Tafkarmlf said:

7 and 5 goals

Joint 12th and joint 21st.

I'm not exactly jumping for joy here, with how fantastic it is, Weimann isnt out and out striker for us 

So

Martin 5

Wells 1

Janneh had 2 in the cup

Andddd... Lots on 1 

Huge number of goals

We're 5th/6th lowest scorers in the Championship https://www.espn.co.uk/football/table/_/league/eng.2

Im not convinced that sending our strikers who do scoreon loan  is a great decision. 

I've justified that enough, have a fab Friyay

Exactly Weimann isn’t an out and out striker and still could get 15 goals this season. That’s average / upper championship striker stats. 

It just shows we don’t make enough chances for all players. Britton isn’t a player to make chances for himself.

Britton scores against under 23 defences. Wells got a hat trick the other week for the under 23s. Means nothing. If Britton scores a hat full in his games for Woking then let’s talk, right now he hasn’t done it in the mens game. 

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48 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I agree with a lot of what you said, but not the bit about Le Tissier. He was an attacking midfielder rather than an out and out striker who scored a goal in approx every three games. Someone like that would walk into the current City team 

I'm on about fitness. Le Tissier wouldn't get in any Championship now. You can't compare fitness levels to the past.

If you had flair and skill like Le Tissier, but not an ability to run for 90 mins, you could get away with it back then. In fact if you had skill like him, you could actually use it to overcome lack of fitness. To a greater degree...that's why you saw more ' ballers' back then.

 

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21 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm on about fitness. Le Tissier wouldn't get in any Championship now. You can't compare fitness levels to the past.

If you had flair and skill like Le Tissier, but not an ability to run for 90 mins, you could get away with it back then. In fact if you had skill like him, you could actually use it to overcome lack of fitness. To a greater degree...that's why you saw more ' ballers' back then.

 

It's the main reason I don't like the old X Vs Y debates. Eras are so different, whether it be Refereeing , fitness , technical ability, pitches or anything else.

But, put those certain players in a certain decade and some would adapt. LeTiss had physique and if he was "today" fit he would walk into a top Prem side. Take Emlyn Hughes, he could run all day, and that was on those horrible pitches. If you take player A from a certain decade he won't fit in another, but if you imagine he was brought up in that decade it's a different argument. 

Plus you have to facter in the beer, everyone was a drinker to some extent. Training was just a way of sweating out the previous nights drink 🤣

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2 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

It's the main reason I don't like the old X Vs Y debates. Eras are so different, whether it be Refereeing , fitness , technical ability, pitches or anything else.

But, put those certain players in a certain decade and some would adapt. LeTiss had physique and if he was "today" fit he would walk into a top Prem side. Take Emlyn Hughes, he could run all day, and that was on those horrible pitches. If you take player A from a certain decade he won't fit in another, but if you imagine he was brought up in that decade it's a different argument. 

Plus you have to faster in the beer, everyone was a drinker to some extent. Training was just a way of sweating out the previous nights drink 🤣

Exactly... however Le Tissier wasn't considered an athlete back then. That's my point...back then you could play to a high level with natural ability, but less natural fitness. Today you can't. If Le Tissier had more fitness back then, I'm sure he would have played more Internationals.

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

100%.  Just that some people seem to think they are like for like.  They aren’t….but as you say, that’s not a reason why Louis couldn’t give us a different option to say Conway or Bell.

Britton and Martin as two up front is an interesting concept 🤔

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25 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm on about fitness. Le Tissier wouldn't get in any Championship now. You can't compare fitness levels to the past.

If you had flair and skill like Le Tissier, but not an ability to run for 90 mins, you could get away with it back then. In fact if you had skill like him, you could actually use it to overcome lack of fitness. To a greater degree...that's why you saw more ' ballers' back then.

 

It’s true that a lot of players from the past were unfit by today’s standards but that doesn’t mean they would be unfit now. The training regime and diet today would make them better players.  The entire City team that reached Division 1 with Alan Dicks was unfit by today’s standards, partly because they spent as much time in the pub as they did at the training ground. If they were playing now they would be better players. (I’d rather have an unfit Paul Cheesley than a “fit” Chris Martin). It’s wrong to compare then with now. If you do, you arrive at crazy conclusions. Stanley Mathews who played about 700 league games and over 50 games for England did so at basically walking pace. He couldn’t do that now, but  that doesn’t mean that now he would have spent his career in the lower leagues. He was an exceptionally gifted player, so he would have adapted his game to suit modern requirements. 

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2 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

It’s true that a lot of players from the past were unfit by today’s standards but that doesn’t mean they would be unfit now. The training regime and diet today would make them better players.  The entire City team that reached Division 1 with Alan Dicks was unfit by today’s standards, partly because they spent as much time in the pub as they did at the training ground. If they were playing now they would be better players. (I’d rather have an unfit Paul Cheesley than a “fit” Chris Martin). It’s wrong to compare then with now. If you do, you arrive at crazy conclusions. Stanley Mathews who played about 700 league games and over 50 games for England did so at basically walking pace. He couldn’t do that now, but  that doesn’t mean that now he would have spent his career in the lower leagues. He was an exceptionally gifted player, so he would have adapted his game to suit modern requirements. 

Really good point. But would Jacki have been any different now!? 🤔 

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1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

It's the main reason I don't like the old X Vs Y debates. Eras are so different, whether it be Refereeing , fitness , technical ability, pitches or anything else.

But, put those certain players in a certain decade and some would adapt. LeTiss had physique and if he was "today" fit he would walk into a top Prem side. Take Emlyn Hughes, he could run all day, and that was on those horrible pitches. If you take player A from a certain decade he won't fit in another, but if you imagine he was brought up in that decade it's a different argument. 

Plus you have to facter in the beer, everyone was a drinker to some extent. Training was just a way of sweating out the previous nights drink 🤣

You ain't seen nothing like the Mighty Emlyn!

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46 minutes ago, mozo said:

Really good point. But would Jacki have been any different now!? 🤔 

I doubt it as he enjoyed his lifestyle more than football. He would be paid more today so he could indulge himself more on his social life. 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I'm on about fitness. Le Tissier wouldn't get in any Championship now. You can't compare fitness levels to the past.

If you had flair and skill like Le Tissier, but not an ability to run for 90 mins, you could get away with it back then. In fact if you had skill like him, you could actually use it to overcome lack of fitness. To a greater degree...that's why you saw more ' ballers' back then.

 

I'm thinking Tomlin is a good example of huge ability but not fitness, although I think attitude was his greatest downfall.

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On 02/12/2021 at 19:26, And Its Smith said:

Anyone doubting this move but have serious concerns about Pearson’s judgment at the same time. We really need a presence up front and we are shipping one out on loan. Clearly a long way from ready as can’t even make the bench 

Maybe face dont fit heard he topped on pearsons door he called him billy big bollocks ?

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16 hours ago, Lrrr said:

From the Brentford game it wasn’t just the goal, aerially showed he could compete with people at our level, Brentford’s defenders didn’t like trying to handle him. He’s not a standout age wise at 23’s level it’s just City run with very young u23’s teams, most other clubs he’d still be younger/average age. As for his scoring rate at 23’s it’s not just ‘good’ it was a rate of 4 in every 5 or so last season and ended up top scorer in the 23’s league despite having been on loan for half the season. As for the loan all indications are Stockport fed City a line on being keen and then the manager just bombed him off as soon as he joined despite starting well at Torquay, the skeptic in me wondered whether Stockport wanted to take a cog away from Torquay as they were a promotion rival.

By the time he was on the pitch he was up against one of their reserve cbs, a midfielder and jansson. The game for them was a stay fit exercise as their spot in playoffs was basically confirmed. 
 

Again I am not saying he can’t have a career here. I am saying he is talked about like he should have displaced Chris Martin in the summer. When in reality the club is telling you they don’t rate him. One thing the club has been getting right is bringing through the academy lads when they are ready. Britton currently is quite far down that list. 

 

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10 hours ago, bpexile said:

I'm thinking Tomlin is a good example of huge ability but not fitness, although I think attitude was his greatest downfall.

I suspect attitude and fitness largely come together. The level of fitness needed for today’s game takes a level of discipline and commitment that you need a certain attitude to do. It’s not an attitude I have, for sure! 

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16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I suspect attitude and fitness largely come together. The level of fitness needed for today’s game takes a level of discipline and commitment that you need a certain attitude to do. It’s not an attitude I have, for sure! 

Agreed, it's total commitment that's needed in today's game :thumbsup:

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12 hours ago, pongo88 said:

It’s true that a lot of players from the past were unfit by today’s standards but that doesn’t mean they would be unfit now. The training regime and diet today would make them better players.  The entire City team that reached Division 1 with Alan Dicks was unfit by today’s standards, partly because they spent as much time in the pub as they did at the training ground. If they were playing now they would be better players. (I’d rather have an unfit Paul Cheesley than a “fit” Chris Martin). It’s wrong to compare then with now. If you do, you arrive at crazy conclusions. Stanley Mathews who played about 700 league games and over 50 games for England did so at basically walking pace. He couldn’t do that now, but  that doesn’t mean that now he would have spent his career in the lower leagues. He was an exceptionally gifted player, so he would have adapted his game to suit modern requirements. 

 

11 hours ago, bpexile said:

I'm thinking Tomlin is a good example of huge ability but not fitness, although I think attitude was his greatest downfall.

Genetics have a lot to do with what fitness level you can achieve, keep and be constant. Then you have to have the right attitude.

My point in all my posts in this thread has been about Britton not being genetically able to get to the fitness level required, regardless of good training and attitude.

The same can be said of former players mentioned in the thread. How many skillful players have we seen over the years that aren't natural athletes, have the fat gene, or other physical negatives..Molby, Gascoigne, Tomlin etc etc 

Over the years watching, it's noted how many players that are extremely skillful naturally aren't physically gifted. It's a common theme.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Selred said:

Exactly Weimann isn’t an out and out striker and still could get 15 goals this season. That’s average / upper championship striker stats. 

It just shows we don’t make enough chances for all players. Britton isn’t a player to make chances for himself.

Britton scores against under 23 defences. Wells got a hat trick the other week for the under 23s. Means nothing. If Britton scores a hat full in his games for Woking then let’s talk, right now he hasn’t done it in the mens game. 

We don't make enough chances but that can be down to the strikers too.

For example have Reid and prime Kodjia up top in this team and I reckon we would create loads more chances than we currently do.

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

 

Genetics have a lot to do with what fitness level you can achieve, keep and be constant. Then you have to have the right attitude.

My point in all my posts in this thread has been about Britton not being genetically able to get to the fitness level required, regardless of good training and attitude.

The same can be said of former players mentioned in the thread. How many skillful players have we seen over the years that aren't natural athletes, have the fat gene, or other physical negatives..Molby, Gascoigne, Tomlin etc etc 

Over the years watching, it's noted how many players that are extremely skillful naturally aren't physically gifted. It's a common theme.

 

 

I agree & there is also the gifted skillful & extremely fit athletes in all sports that just can't be arsed to perform when it's needed. We see such skills wasted here in Ozzie rules football, exceptional skills but just can't be arsed.

It must be very frustrating & upsetting for those, as you say with the fat gene & sadly there will always be those that don't fulfill their capabilities.

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10 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I am saying he is talked about like he should have displaced Chris Martin in the summer.

Not sure I’ve ever heard that….cover for Martin maybe?

 

10 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

By the time he was on the pitch he was up against one of their reserve cbs, a midfielder and jansson. The game for them was a stay fit exercise as their spot in playoffs was basically confirmed. 

Beck-Sorensen - started 29 league games last season, a Danish u21 international.  Norgaard was used as an extra CB 13 times last season.  You don’t rate him, that’s fine, but I think you are trying ever so hard to find stuff to knock him down with.

He came on as sub, put himself about and grabbed a goal.  Not gonna define his career one way or the other.

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33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure I’ve ever heard that….cover for Martin maybe?

 

Beck-Sorensen - started 29 league games last season, a Danish u21 international.  Norgaard was used as an extra CB 13 times last season.  You don’t rate him, that’s fine, but I think you are trying ever so hard to find stuff to knock him down with.

He came on as sub, put himself about and grabbed a goal.  Not gonna define his career one way or the other.

I have seen it around probably fb or twitter. 

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure I’ve ever heard that….cover for Martin maybe?

 

Beck-Sorensen - started 29 league games last season, a Danish u21 international.  Norgaard was used as an extra CB 13 times last season.  You don’t rate him, that’s fine, but I think you are trying ever so hard to find stuff to knock him down with.

He came on as sub, put himself about and grabbed a goal.  Not gonna define his career one way or the other.

No i am trying ever so hard to balance the conversation. All I see on here is 80% saying he should be getting minutes here based of goals in the u23s and a goal in a meaningless last match of the season. I don’t rate or not rate him. I am saying we have all this evidence from the club saying he is miles away from this level. Yet we have over half the fanbase saying he should be in the squad. I hope he does well but get the impression he needs to work a lot harder for a career at our level. 

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10 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I have seen it around probably fb or twitter. 

 

No i am trying ever so hard to balance the conversation. All I see on here is 80% saying he should be getting minutes here based of goals in the u23s and a goal in a meaningless last match of the season. I don’t rate or not rate him. I am saying we have all this evidence from the club saying he is miles away from this level. Yet we have over half the fanbase saying he should be in the squad. I hope he does well but get the impression he needs to work a lot harder for a career at our level. 

No, what people are suggesting is that surely he's worth bringing on for the last 20 minutes to put himself about a bit rather than watching Martin send himself to an early grave every week.

What people are basing that on is his performances in the u23s where it seemed last season he scored in pretty much every game and the only opportunity people would have seen him live against a now Premier League team, he knocked both centre backs on their arses and scored a poachers goal, all in about 15 minutes.

The club have not said he is miles away from this level. They said his fitness needs to improve. That would be to start games. He can't start games, fine. But he COULD influence it from the bench. If he comes on for 3 games and is crap, send him on loan to Woking and you can celebrate. If he comes on gets an assist and a goal late on in a couple of games, great!

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