Now James is fit can we get rid of Bakinson

[Better Red]

I am not sure if it’s just hope on your parts to wish he gets better or it’s just you can’t judge a player.

I don’t suffer that problem I can see a player who is or is not good enough.

Sadly for Bakinson he is not good enough. 
 

Sure I could be proved wrong but we all know deep down I won’t.

Just because he is young 23 (young?)he will get better. Yes you are right but it won’t be at this football club or at this level.

I will repost in a few weeks (maybe even Saturday) when he can’t even get into the team and again in January when he won’t even be in the squad.

Will look forward to your comments then.

3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Lucky we have people who understand football unlike you

Nige did yesterday he dragged him off at the first opportunity.

[redsince1994]

29 minutes ago, Better Red said:

I am not sure if it’s just hope on your parts to wish he gets better or it’s just you can’t judge a player.

I don’t suffer that problem I can see a player who is or is not good enough.

Sadly for Bakinson he is not good enough. 
 

Sure I could be proved wrong but we all know deep down I won’t.

Just because he is young 23 (young?)he will get better. Yes you are right but it won’t be at this football club or at this level.

I will repost in a few weeks (maybe even Saturday) when he can’t even get into the team and again in January when he won’t even be in the squad.

Will look forward to your comments then.

Nige did yesterday he dragged him off at the first opportunity.

Aaaand once again your logic is flawed, and you are presenting opinion as fact.

The vast majority of replies defending Bakinson acknowledge his clear deficiencies and that he probably isn't first choice when everyone is fit. If he is dropped, that won't magically make your diatribe on him correct, just that we have better midfielders at the club.

You are also stating as fact he will be leaving to go to a league one club. Possible? Yes. But you cannot use hypotheical situations as an absolute to criticise.

You clearly have made up your mind, as your original post seemed to have very little to do with his performance against Derby.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, redsince1994 said:

Aaaand once again your logic is flawed, and you are presenting opinion as fact.

The vast majority of replies defending Bakinson acknowledge his clear deficiencies and that he probably isn't first choice when everyone is fit. If he is dropped, that won't magically make your diatribe on him correct, just that we have better midfielders at the club.

You are also stating as fact he will be leaving to go to a league one club. Possible? Yes. But you cannot use hypotheical situations as an absolute to criticise.

You clearly have made up your mind, as your original post seemed to have very little to do with his performance against Derby.

Well said.  And you don’t exercise a club option I’d you’re looking to move him to Lg1 anytime soon.  The likelihood in this current market is that players dropping down a league are T likely to command much if anything of a fee (unless Ipswich are buying ).  In which case you’d just kept his contract run down.

Nige is trying to get the best out of the resources he has.  Some players won’t be here if he gets the squad to where it needs to be, but the constant “Bakinson Lg1” stuff is a bit boring, especially when it comes after a win, or worse when it’s been part of a poor team performance where there really isn’t a need to scapegoat anyone.

[Better Red]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Well said.  And you don’t exercise a club option I’d you’re looking to move him to Lg1 anytime soon.  The likelihood in this current market is that players dropping down a league are T likely to command much if anything of a fee (unless Ipswich are buying ).  In which case you’d just kept his contract run down.

Nige is trying to get the best out of the resources he has.  Some players won’t be here if he gets the squad to where it needs to be, but the constant “Bakinson Lg1” stuff is a bit boring, especially when it comes after a win, or worse when it’s been part of a poor team performance where there really isn’t a need to scapegoat anyone.

Logic flawed…

Boring…

Really because I am right.

I am not scapegoating him we won.

Pre judged comment partly true that’s because he is a disgrace every time he plays.

Was he better yesterday - No

Never said fact it’s clearly just an opinion.

Its just happens to be right based on facts. The facts are watching him play and then applying my brain processing skills based on my knowledge of watching football.

That tells my he is ‘below the standard that this club needs to progress, tell me I am wrong - Silence…

Then he ain’t good enough so stop talking rubbish.

 

[Alessandro]

I’m not into writing players on or off ever - thought Bakinson was decent first half, but as I said on match day thread, he was wasteful at times and loose with possession early on IMO before he found his range a bit. 

What I’m increasingly thinking is that the fans, have got Bakinson wrong, as a player. Perhaps it was the comparisons to Viera when he first came or perhaps it’s his stature.

But I just don’t think he is the defensive Viera/Fernandinho player some think he is. The defensive side of his game isn’t great, but it also shows a lack of experience. By comparison, I don’t think James (don’t hear many complaints about him defensively) is necessarily miles better physically than Bakinson but just has the streetwise experience to place himself better positional/read the game etc.

I think recently we the squad we have, whilst also missing James and Williams, the likes of Bakinson and HNM are sometimes having to play a role in the team that just doesn’t suit their natural game, as I write that, I remember NP saying something similar about Bakinson.

If we’re on the front foot, he can look very good, if he’s forced to defend when we don’t have one of our holding midfielders alongside him, he will be exposed despite his best efforts. So for me, it’s as much about how we use him or how he fits into a NP style team rather than simply is he good enough at this level.

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Alessandro

[1team]

At the moment I would suggest TB is a squad player who is getting more playing time than he would should others be fit. His faults are there for all to see but so are his attributes. He will improve, that is certain and playing will help, but to single him out is unfair. Plenty of others can be criticised for their commitment and performance but seem to get away with it. Maybe it's because he's 6ft3 he's more noticeable lets hope it's nothing else.

 

[chinapig]

21 minutes ago, Better Red said:

 

Its just happens to be right based on facts. The facts are watching him play and then applying my brain processing skills based on my knowledge of watching football.

That's just a convoluted definition of opinion, which is subjective. Facts are objective.

You only have to read a matchday thread to get that people watching a game don't "see" the same things. It's all filtered through our preconceptions, including any bias for or against particular players.

By all means stick to your opinion but don't suggest it is fact.

[NcnsBcfc]

20 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Controversial but I think Vyner has the best range of passing bar Palmer.

Really????

Zak has a floated pass that he plays on about 90% of his passes, it's a lazy ball that normally is played over to the left hand side of the penalty area; and easily dealt with.

There was a time in the second half at one of our corners, when Zak was left by himself at the back (I thought it was a bit strange, given that he is over 6ft). The ball got hoofed away by Derby. Zak had two options available to him, back to Bentley or pass to Massengo. There was no-one within 10 yards of him from an poosition standpoint. What does he do? Heads it out for a throw in.

And that is Vyner unfortunately....

Panics on the ball, switches off positionally, gets beaten in the air far to easily for someone over 6ft; and don't get me started on his abilities on a one on one situation.

I can see he's trying to do his best, but playing alongside him must be a nightmare. He's one of those players that you can't trust to do the basics properly.

[NcnsBcfc]

2 hours ago, Better Red said:

Logic flawed…

Boring…

Really because I am right.

I am not scapegoating him we won.

Pre judged comment partly true that’s because he is a disgrace every time he plays.

Was he better yesterday - No

Never said fact it’s clearly just an opinion.

Its just happens to be right based on facts. The facts are watching him play and then applying my brain processing skills based on my knowledge of watching football.

That tells my he is ‘below the standard that this club needs to progress, tell me I am wrong - Silence…

Then he ain’t good enough so stop talking rubbish.

 

Blimey, I think that is the most Trumpesque post I've seen in a long time.

Top work there. 

So in essence it is only your opinion, but your opinion is right, and on that basis the other poster is wrong?

 

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

There was a time in the second half at one of our corners, when Zak was left by himself at the back (I thought it was a bit strange, given that he is over 6ft). The ball got hoofed away by Derby. Zak had two options available to him, back to Bentley or pass to Massengo. There was no-one within 10 yards of him from an poosition standpoint. What does he do? Heads it out for a throw in.

Was not the ball to try and bring down.  Header was right option, just hit the wrong part of his head.  If he brings it down and it bounces 10 yards away from him, he gets rollicked!

[IAmNick]

2 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Is there a heat map or passes available for Tryreeq from yesterday. 

I see he's the new Cole Skuse, Lee Johnson, Kilkenny and whatever other central midfield scapegoat. 

Wouldn't be the city forum without one. 

But the vast majority, in fact almost the entire thread apart from one poster are being balanced and defending him.

Not much of a scapegoat?

And in fact the person who doesn't rate them is just saying he doesn't think they're good enough. That's not what a scapegoat is...

Edited December 5, 2021 by IAmNick

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Really????

Zak has a floated pass that he plays on about 90% of his passes, it's a lazy ball that normally is played over to the left hand side of the penalty area; and easily dealt with.

There was a time in the second half at one of our corners, when Zak was left by himself at the back (I thought it was a bit strange, given that he is over 6ft). The ball got hoofed away by Derby. Zak had two options available to him, back to Bentley or pass to Massengo. There was no-one within 10 yards of him from an poosition standpoint. What does he do? Heads it out for a throw in.

And that is Vyner unfortunately....

Panics on the ball, switches off positionally, gets beaten in the air far to easily for someone over 6ft; and don't get me started on his abilities on a one on one situation.

I can see he's trying to do his best, but playing alongside him must be a nightmare. He's one of those players that you can't trust to do the basics properly.

Not at his best yesterday but overall, certainly this season, the best passer we have - IMO.

I said it was controversial.

[Port Said Red]

5 hours ago, Better Red said:

Logic flawed…

Boring…

Really because I am right.

I am not scapegoating him we won.

Pre judged comment partly true that’s because he is a disgrace every time he plays.

Was he better yesterday - No

Never said fact it’s clearly just an opinion.

Its just happens to be right based on facts. The facts are watching him play and then applying my brain processing skills based on my knowledge of watching football.

That tells my he is ‘below the standard that this club needs to progress, tell me I am wrong - Silence…

Then he ain’t good enough so stop talking rubbish.

 

[Keepers Ball]

"Another disgraceful display from Bakinson"

 

Does that include the two cracking through balls he played?

[Rudolf Hucker]

10 hours ago, Better Red said:

Pre judged comment partly true that’s because he is a disgrace every time he plays.

It must have been difficult for you not being able to celebrate a City goal when the ever disgraceful Bakinson scored our winner against Stoke?

[Bodiesaffer]

 

@Better Red what would help Bakinson to be a better player?

[JoeAman08]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Was not the ball to try and bring down.  Header was right option, just hit the wrong part of his head.  If he brings it down and it bounces 10 yards away from him, he gets rollicked!

The Jorginho mistake last weekend comes to mind. He didn’t do the wrong thing as you said. Just didn’t execute how he wanted to

[The Bard]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Was not the ball to try and bring down.  Header was right option, just hit the wrong part of his head.  If he brings it down and it bounces 10 yards away from him, he gets rollicked!

Absolutely.  Doing anything other than sticking the ball back up in the air was asking for trouble. 

[SecretSam]

17 hours ago, Better Red said:

Logic flawed…

Boring…

Really because I am right.

I am not scapegoating him we won.

Pre judged comment partly true that’s because he is a disgrace every time he plays.

Was he better yesterday - No

Never said fact it’s clearly just an opinion.

Its just happens to be right based on facts. The facts are watching him play and then applying my brain processing skills based on my knowledge of watching football.

That tells my he is ‘below the standard that this club needs to progress, tell me I am wrong - Silence…

Then he ain’t good enough so stop talking rubbish.

 

Are you related to Trump? 

[Son of Fred]

On 04/12/2021 at 20:06, Gazred said:

His natural one touch passing, with range and vision is 2nd to nobody at the club. It's the off the ball stuff and a lack of physicallity that is missing. Too often stood in space ball watching, waiting for it to come to him when we don't have it

Sounds similar to our old friend Jet,,doesn't it???......

[Better Red]

11 hours ago, Bodiesaffer said:

 

@Better Red what would help Bakinson to be a better player?

Effort. 
Tracking back

Tackling

Strength on the ball

A few to start with.

 

[Better Red]

Having read must  if the above where people are saying he is young, it’s his physique, he faded in the second half, he size makes him look lazy etc..

I can only conclude that most people do actually agree with the post but for some reason just can’t bring themselves to say he is not good enough.

I just don’t understand why others can’t bring themselves to say it.

Its not like he is the first or the last that will not be good enough that’s a certainty (Fact but an opinion)

Its ok to say some players are good enough and TB falls on to that category.

So pleas just be honest it’s ok.

 

 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

57 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Its ok to say some players are good enough and TB falls on to that category.

Great that you’ve come ‘round to this point of view, honesty is always the best policy. 

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Great that you’ve come ‘round to this point of view, honesty is always the best policy. 

Good spot.

If only others on this forum could see that clearly and point out that Bakinson is clearly not up to standard.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought Vyner did the right thing heading that out of play.

I don’t think he tried to head it out of play, just got a 50p head on it, or as Joe Royle used to say, “got a head like a sheriff’s badge”!

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'm glad he didn't head it forward as I don't think he would have got much distance on it. A lot safer just to head it into touch there imo

Nah, as a centre half in the centre of the pitch, you don’t try to head it sideways for a throw-in.  You head it up and as far as possible.  The longer the ball is in the air the better.  It’s the basics of defensive clearances as a centre half.  What we were taught all the time. It ought to have been meat and drink to head up and forwards.  He executed it badly.

[cidered abroad]

On 05/12/2021 at 17:42, Davefevs said:

Was not the ball to try and bring down.  Header was right option, just hit the wrong part of his head.  If he brings it down and it bounces 10 yards away from him, he gets rollicked!

He is last man defender. Ball was hit by Derby a fair bit higher than usual and my view was that it was being blown or spinning and changing directions as it came down.

Not the best defensive header but heading it out for a throw in was definitely better than giving it to the four Derby players.

 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Vyner was back pedalling on his own at the back with Derby players running towards him. I think he was struggling to judge the flight of the ball and was moving backwards. Could have been a dodgy situation if he'd tried to head it forwards imo.

Backpedals, settles, facing forward, mis-judges it (absolutely).  It came off the side of his head…he was not trying to put it out for a throw-in

.

 

[Better Red]

On 04/12/2021 at 22:32, JoeAman08 said:

Yes honestly. He is a very good player. I’d pick him over James personally. At his best think he offers more than James. But the sub was a good one today. Personally I’d have one or the other. Not both on the pitch at the same time. So it is a preference thing. For me, today, it 100% suited Bakinson and his vision more than James and his graft. Thought James was excellent when he came on but can’t play every game so having both is a good situation. 
 

Personally just think it is disgusting the abuse Bakinson gets. I am not sure he has ever been the worst player on the pitch. Yet he gets talked about like he is of conference level. That is not the case. You have to build a midfield to support Bakinson at his current ability and maybe not as much so for James. But we are dealing with a 23 year old in his second season at this level. NP has made his statements about players not committed yet Bakinson has been involved to almost Weimann and Martin levels and has gotten an extension. It is clear he is rated. Yet @Better Redwants rid. We are a championship club and we won’t get a complete player at any position. 

Nige agrees with me….. surprised ?
 

Dropped him to the bench as soon as he could.

Give it a few more weeks and won’t even get in the squad.

League 1 bound.

Of course I maybe wrong but then again I doubt it….

[redsince1994]

5 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Nige agrees with me….. surprised ?
 

Dropped him to the bench as soon as he could.

Give it a few more weeks and won’t even get in the squad.

League 1 bound.

Of course I maybe wrong but then again I doubt it….

Obsessed