Vyner: no longer interested?

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, MelksRed said:

Watching the game yesterday there were a couple of times that Vyner stepped away from his man to enable them to attack. That (and the fact that he seemingly watched as much of the game as I did at times) suggests that he no longer has any interest in being here.....thoughts?

 

Nothing to do with his commitment to the club IMO. As others have said and something that i have been saying for a while is unfortunately he just isn’t quite good enough at this level.

He would make a fine League one defender but i think the championship is a step too far for him. What people need to understand is Not every single academy graduate is going to make it and then be sold on for tens of millions -that’s just football. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by bris red

[hinsleburg]

My biggest issue with Vyner is the amount of times he's out of line and yards deeper than Kalas etc.

Anybody with a bit of pace would be able to exploit that and it nearly cost us a few times against Stoke.

I do think he's lacking in confidence but not sure he will ever be mentally good enough to hold down a regular place across a whole season. Real shame as I think physically and technically, albeit a few dodgy touches and passes yesterday, he has more than enough to make it.

Wonder if he's suffered by being versatile and not ever getting a sustained run in one position?

[KegCity]

I thought he lacked urgency on the ball yesterday. Would get the ball from a midfielder and instead of releasing it quickly would dawdle, assess his options and end up under pressure. He's fine in the short term in a back 3. Not convinced he's a championship standard player.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

Do think RCB of three is his best position and they’re starting to work out that having three allows them to cover the width of the pitch more than a few games ago. Much more likely yesterday to see Vyner or Atkinson near their touch line than we have. That allowed Scott/O’Dowda further up the pitch. When they brought Kazim Richards on that occupied our CB’s more and pushed our WBs back further. Whilst it would have been great to have got to two or three ahead, we still had a lead to defend, so made sense to drop back a bit. Don’t think we’re dropping back as far as we were earlier in the season, when it was the Alamo for half an hour. 
 

Agree with Hinsleburg that it’s Zak’s concentration that’s the biggest worry, along with a propensity to be panicked unnecessarily. That said, there was a clearance when he was last man (maybe from a corner for us?) and he relatively weakly headed it out for a thrown in around the half way line. Could he have brought it down and retained possession? Probably should have, but could have made a mess of it and they were streaming forward, so if first job is to defend, I think the right choice.

One season at Championship level isn’t that long and he doesn’t look a constant liability, worth persisting with and maybe experience helps him iron out some of his weaknesses. 

[And Its Smith]

Bizarre thread and incredibly disrespectful 

[Swede]

I think it's concentration with him. Made a few errors towards the end of the match which I would associate with fatigue.

I honestly think his best position is as a holding midfielder.

[Swede]

To say he's no longer interested is very harsh and very wide of the mark.

[1960maaan]

41 minutes ago, KegCity said:

I thought he lacked urgency on the ball yesterday. Would get the ball from a midfielder and instead of releasing it quickly would dawdle, assess his options and end up under pressure. He's fine in the short term in a back 3. Not convinced he's a championship standard player.

You could say the same about Bakinson at times, or anyone come to that. The man on the ball lacks options, the movement from most of our lot is very poor. A decent side will give options, it makes the game easier for the man in possession. With us we are very static, or pass the ball "that's my job over". Watch good sides and those out of possession are constantly moving.

He has struggled with concentration previously, but after a run last year he looked quality. Let him play behind Williams , King or James, I have no doubt he will look better.

[nickolas]

2 hours ago, MelksRed said:

Watching the game yesterday there were a couple of times that Vyner stepped away from his man to enable them to attack. That (and the fact that he seemingly watched as much of the game as I did at times) suggests that he no longer has any interest in being here.....thoughts?

 

No. Im sure its not that. 
 

Hes just really not very good!!

[MelksRed]

Well, thanks for the responses. I appreciate that confidence is low.....

Having read some responses I wholeheartedly appreciate that this may have impacted his game......I asked for thoughts iot to gain other perspectives....not drunk, on the wind up, not stupid.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, City oz said:

Some what disagree on this . He is still quite young at 24 years old. He has a great build and stature and is around 6 foot 2. Not sure what we originally bought him before but it would be a lot less than what he is worth now on the market in the next transfer window. Most sites have in valued at 1.9 mill.

ZV is actually a graduate from City's academy, so there was no fee involved.

I must say, though, that a current value of £1.9M seems extremely optimistic.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 minute ago, MelksRed said:

Well, thanks for the responses. I appreciate that confidence is low.....

Having read some responses I wholeheartedly appreciate that this may have impacted his game......I asked for thoughts iot to gain other perspectives....not drunk, on the wind up, not stupid.

Just struggling to maintain interest?

[KegCity]

15 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

You could say the same about Bakinson at times, or anyone come to that. The man on the ball lacks options, the movement from most of our lot is very poor. A decent side will give options, it makes the game easier for the man in possession. With us we are very static, or pass the ball "that's my job over". Watch good sides and those out of possession are constantly moving.

He has struggled with concentration previously, but after a run last year he looked quality. Let him play behind Williams , King or James, I have no doubt he will look better.

Agree, think Bakinson and Vyner have similar problems in their games, don’t think either have a long term future at the club.

Vyner would have options but still wouldn’t do anything. Can remember one point in the second half where Scott passed the ball back to him, Vyner had the option of switching the ball out wide, passing to the side to Kalas, passing to Massengo or passing back to Scott. He chose to do none of them until a derby player was right in front him where he panicked and over hit a pass out of play.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Is Vyner a poor player? No.

Is it a position we need to upgrade? Yes.

His ability to play 3 different position, CB, RB and RM - maybe not to the first team, week in week out standard - is a very useful player to have in the squad.

Dare say if money wasn't such a challenge then it would be an area when a Championship ready player would have been sought out, but the fact is, we have Tanner who, when fit, will likely start - and he hadn't played at this level before.

Zak is one to keep for me.

Exactly.  It’s a squad game, we’ve just gone to a back 3 in recent games, Baker now injured, so we have to play players who might not be first choice if everyone was fit.

Zak has deficiencies, most do at this level, but he’s a “100 percenter” no doubt.  Over 100 games at this level is a fine achievement from our Academy player.  We should be proud of him, and proud that he can come in and do a job.  In a smaller squad, that’s important.

[Bristol Rob]

Out of interest, and because this doesn't warrant a new thread...

How is Taylor Moore getting on with Hearts?

Only ask as if Zak wasn't the answer to the utility defender question some of you don't think he is, the next nearest would be Moore.

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

I think it's concentration with him. Made a few errors towards the end of the match which I would associate with fatigue.

I honestly think his best position is as a holding midfielder.

I think defensive midfield or in a back three. I really think Vyner has got a bit more quality than some on this thread suggest and I would love him to succeed but the fact I don’t really trust him in a back two probably shows I share the concerns people have about him…

[CliftonCliff]

1 hour ago, MelksRed said:

Well, thanks for the responses. I appreciate that confidence is low.....

Having read some responses I wholeheartedly appreciate that this may have impacted his game......I asked for thoughts iot to gain other perspectives....not drunk, on the wind up, not stupid.

It's actually quite unlike me to make that sort of personal remark, so I will apologise for that and withdraw my comments. Sorry, I was obviously feeling a bit scratchy first thing this morning, but it should be apparent from the more reasoned responses why I found your post so irritating. The suggestion that, in effect, Vyner was standing off his man and allowing the opposition space because he could no longer be bothered is really quite out of order. It insults the man's professionalism, which is unfair and I can see no tangible evidence to support the allegation that he has an attitude problem. Nigel Pearson has been pretty forthright in stating that he has a few players on his hands who are not pulling their weight, and if he thought Vyner was one of them then I don't think he'd be anywhere near the squad, let alone the starting line-up. As a case in point, look at what's happened to Palmer. I am neither Zak's greatest fan nor his biggest critic, but he doesn't deserve that - hence my broadside. I will, however, remind myself to take a deep breath before posting in future... 

[Red-Robbo]

He was our worst player yesterday, but what options did we have?  Simpson is slower than those two stewards trying to catch the pitch invader!

It wasn't Zak's finest 90 minutes yesterday, but he did make the odd important interception. 

I don't think he's "not good enough", I just think he's perhaps not first choice in a fully fit team. 

As a guy whose flitted between midfield and defence, perhaps one could say he's a jack of all trades and not particularly a master of any.  But he can be a handy squad player. 

[Fuber]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Probably the most balanced assessment of him on this thread.

He reminds me of Matt Hill in that his crosses or passes can be spot on or end up hitting the corner flag. Consistency is all he is lacking.

Comes down to concentration.

Plain and simple, and it's the fault of many when stepping up to Championship level imo. Again at PL being another step.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

He was our worst player yesterday, but what options did we have?  Simpson is slower than those two stewards trying to catch the pitch invader!

It wasn't Zak's finest 90 minutes yesterday, but he did make the odd important interception. 

I don't think he's "not good enough", I just think he's perhaps not first choice in a fully fit team. 

As a guy whose flitted between midfield and defence, perhaps one could say he's a jack of all trades and not particularly a master of any.  But he can be a handy squad player. 

It's too polarised on here and I often see people being so judgmental as a sign they haven't really played the game themselves because people who have played know how easy it is to put in the odd stinking performance.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

It’s strange to hear the criticism of Vyner when the player who’s given me kittens in the last few matches has been Kalas.  The man may have many strengths, but his ability to judge the flight of the ball in the air, or to deal with a bouncing ball, leaves me terrified every time a high ball goes anywhere near him.

Edited December 5, 2021 by The Dolman Pragmatist

[mozo]

He did defend well at times but his passing was abysmal. He's capable of much better 

[REDOXO]

Vyner is a good player. His issue will be that he’s a utility player. He can play a number of different positions but will rarely be number one in any of them. 
 

However this kind of player is in relatively short supply so he is likely to have a very decent career either here or some place else and as long as he gets used to seeing a lot of the bench he will do great. 

[tin]

Vyner’s a utility player for two reasons: 1) he’s a good athlete, 2) he’s not good enough at this level to nail down a certain position, and he’s had more than enough chances in those roles IMO.

He’s in there at the moment out of necessity, but his weaknesses outweigh his strengths. Poor concentration, poor positioning, poor awareness, physically weak, poor in the air. I could go on.

I don’t actually think there’s a lot of difference between him and Moore, other than one’s out of the academy. They both need moving on. 

[054123]

12 hours ago, Pezo said:

I think someone has already said it - he has all the ability but can't/won't assert himself. Classic Nyatanga type IMHO.

 

Just like Tyreeq.

[Swede]

9 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

He was our worst player yesterday, but what options did we have?  Simpson is slower than those two stewards trying to catch the pitch invader!

It wasn't Zak's finest 90 minutes yesterday, but he did make the odd important interception. 

I don't think he's "not good enough", I just think he's perhaps not first choice in a fully fit team. 

As a guy whose flitted between midfield and defence, perhaps one could say he's a jack of all trades and not particularly a master of any.  But he can be a handy squad player. 

I remember the same point being levied at Luke Ayling and, further back, Rob Edwards. Both went on to have successful careers elsewhere at different levels.

[Red-Robbo]

17 minutes ago, Swede said:

I remember the same point being levied at Luke Ayling and, further back, Rob Edwards. Both went on to have successful careers elsewhere at different levels.

 

Don't Rob Atkinson's occasional forays from the back line up into their final third remind you a bit of Ayling?

I love it when a player can make that amount of ground for us.

[JoeAman08]

Yep he is terrible. Part of 2 clean sheets in 3 games. Would have been 3 of 4 if the far superior cb partner could clear his lines with his feet. 
 

What is wrong with this place lately? 17th place championship club doesn’t have a squad full of high end championship to low end premier league players at every position. We have had one of our best spells of the season yet we have people saying we should be letting players go for free or saying they are trying to concede on purpose. Absolutely crazy. 
 

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

16 hours ago, MelksRed said:

Watching the game yesterday there were a couple of times that Vyner stepped away from his man to enable them to attack. That (and the fact that he seemingly watched as much of the game as I did at times) suggests that he no longer has any interest in being here.....thoughts?

 

I really think that he is interested and does have his heart in the club. But he too often gets caught out of position or has the ball and just does not know what to do with it. I like him but I really feel a Div. 1 player.

[MC RISK77]

17 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Out of interest, and because this doesn't warrant a new thread...

How is Taylor Moore getting on with Hearts?

Only ask as if Zak wasn't the answer to the utility defender question some of you don't think he is, the next nearest would be Moore.

Moore is on a par with vyner- neither are  regular championship quality defenders and both hopefully sooner rather than later will be gone.