Vaccine Passport - Plan B

[Galley is our king]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

The virus doesn't choose to be different from country to country. We are all humans. It affects us the same way. The ' experts' do agree it's mild.

Seriously this is not about health and spreading anymore. 

The government listen to the experts, then put in rules that don't make any sense.

It's totally symbolic. 

You've got world leaders mixing, putting on masks for the cameras, then taking them off when meeting others, shaking hands and hugging.

Why anyone else can't see this amazes me.

These Governments, world leaders listen to the experts and scientists first hand. They get all the info. Yet they don't abide by the rules they set for us.

As human beings, you would do as advised by the Scientists. You wouldn't ignore it. So why are the Government going about their lives like there is nothing to worry about...they aren't in fear of getting ill. What do they know that we don't. They would comply whole heartedly if otherwise for their own health.

Sorry, your mixing arguments here. Of course the government should be hammered for doing what they do if it isn't within the rules set by them!

Does that mean that you would also break those rules which may increase the chances of getting ill or put others at risk of getting ill?

So two wrongs do make a right?

The virus surely might well be easier to catch in the winter. I have no idea which season SA is in, but it may be different to ours. Lots of European countries are putting in place tighter restrictions than us, are they all wrong too?

[Galley is our king]

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

You realise all those people have ‘other’ interests, don’t you. 
They’ve been put into these senior positions by the government. 
They have financial interests in pharma companies. Well, they used to work for them didn’t they. 
No one involved in any of this is ‘clean’. 

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

[Bannerman]

4 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

What a an idiot, brainless moron.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Sorry, I don’t recognise your user name or recall any of your posting history. You’ll have to remind me of when I “had a dig at someone’s income level”. If it’s the conversation I’m thinking of then one thinks you’ve bent the truth there for your own gain. 
Accusing me of digging at someone’s income is quite laughable, given I grew up on a crumbling council estate, to a single mum due to a wifebeating dad, mum scraping by on 2 underpaid jobs trying to feed and clothe 3 kids with bugger all, ending up homeless and living in a shelter for a few weeks before my uncle could put us up before being allocated another home on the other side of Bristol. But that’s ok - you can just make stuff up, that’s fine by me. 

As I said, I left the politics forum because of my anger at vaccinating healthy children and the insatiable desire from some of the posters on there to do it - I don’t recall “getting hammered” about anything. Again, one thinks you have bent the truth somewhat. 

You have been watching too many Monty Python sketches, crumbling council estate? you were lucky!! we lived in a WW2 bomb crater.

[Riaz]

Just now, Bannerman said:

What a an idiot, brainless moron.

Bit harsh. I'd say extremely naive.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Hospitals aren't being overrun. This variant has very mild symptoms. You get it and recover at home. 

The people vulnerable are those with underlying health issues like diabetes. They'd be hospitalised like most years if they caught the flu.

There is no reason to bring in more restrictions. 

 

I think that's a rather complacent view. It's too early to say this variant has very mild symptoms. There are reports of some children dying in South Africa from it.

People with diabetes do not as a general rule become hospitalised with flu. Flu acts primarily as an upper respiratory infection, SARS-2-CoV spreads virons around the body: this is why it has affected organs other than just lungs.  This is why Covid has a higher case mortality rate than normal influenza.

It could be that research finds that Omicron is a milder strain and even though more infectious, it will lead to fewer hospitalisations. If it is, restrictions will no doubt be dropped. Most infections in the UK at present are Delta anyway, and we currently have more than a million people carrying the virus and that number is rising. This fact alone justifies taking extra care.

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Hospitals aren't being overrun. This variant has very mild symptoms. You get it and recover at home. 

 

 

 

I know various people - including some on these boards - who work as doctors and nurses in hospitals. I think I'll listen to them on whether hospitals are currently being over-run, rather than someone on the internet who has no idea what is happening in hospitals but feels the need to pretend otherwise.

1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

The people vulnerable are those with underlying health issues like diabetes. They'd be hospitalised like most years if they caught the flu.

Most people with underlying health conditions - diabetics included - don't get hospitalised if they get the flu. Especially as the flu jab massively drops the side effects. But, even without vaccination, flu doesn't hospitalise anywhere the numbers that COVID does.

 

If you don't know something, admit you don't know it. Making inaccurate statements that you hope to be true is very easy for everyone else to see through. You're welcome to your opinion on all this but please don't invent facts. 

[Bannerman]

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

Bit harsh. I'd say extremely naive.

No is not, read the article carefully his views are “extremely naive”.

you are making it personal 

[Galley is our king]

4 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

What a an idiot, brainless moron.

Well done, an extremely well thought through and considered response.

 

[Bannerman]

Just now, Galley is our king said:

Well done, an extremely well thought through and considered response.

 

Thank you and for reconsidering your position on the matter

[Galley is our king]

1 minute ago, Bannerman said:

Thank you and for reconsidering your position on the matter

I won't change my view, idiot!

What is your view by the way? Have you anything constructive to add?

[Bannerman]

Just now, Galley is our king said:

I won't change my view, idiot!

What is your view by the way? Have you anything constructive to add?

I never try and educate someone of a closed or narrow mind as you, it’s pointless. So enough said

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, Bannerman said:

I never try and educate someone of a closed or narrow mind as you, it’s pointless. So enough said

How would you educate him? He has a daughter working on a COVID ward and has direct experience of the reality of the virus. You have an opinion on the internet. If you had an ounce of sense or self-reflection, you'd be asking him to educate you. 

[Bannerman]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

How would you educate him? He has a daughter working on a COVID ward and has direct experience of the reality of the virus. You have an opinion on the internet. If you had an ounce of sense or self-reflection, you'd be asking him to educate you. 

My father is a doctor 

[JackofromSanJavier]

13 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Nicking this off Twitter but it's also an anagram of Erotic Almond so I'm not really sure what your point is...

I'm fairly sure they supported T Rex at the Colston Hall back in the 70's

Edited December 10, 2021 by JackofromSanJavier
text

[TonyTonyTony]

4 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

I never try and educate someone of a closed or narrow mind as you, it’s pointless. So enough said

All you have presented is you own opinion. No a shred of evidence to back it up, and yet he is closed minded? Pot Kettle etc

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, Bannerman said:

My father is a doctor 

And is he working on COVID wards? 

[Galley is our king]

3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

How would you educate him? He has a daughter working on a COVID ward and has direct experience of the reality of the virus. You have an opinion on the internet. If you had an ounce of sense or self-reflection, you'd be asking him to educate you. 

Thanks but there's an old saying.

You can't educate pork.....

[LoyalRed]

My last views on Vaccine Passports as I can already see the friendly bunch from the politics/covid forum have found the topic and now want to take over it with their scientific opinions and bash others that don't follow the same narrative as them.  

If "Vaccine Passports" are purely in place just to try and stop the spread of this new Omricon variant then I don't have a problem with it.  I won't be attending any games that have this "Vaccine Passport" in place but as long as it is just in place for this measure (although we have already seen in nightclubs in France that it doesn't work), then so be it.  If in another month we find out that no-one has died of Omricon and hospital numbers are not really increasing drastically then we should all expect these measures to be immediately lifted!

The reason I won't be attending the games is because I can see the "Vaccine Passport", aside from sacking Care/NHS staff as another Draconian Measure to be introduced in this country.  We all should be aware of where this can lead, @Med/MadHatter himself posted about how he is now singled out in Canada and can only visit shops and we are seeing the same across Europe.

Anyone that agrees with "Vaccine Passports" should ask themselves how far it would need to go before they didn't agree with it.  At what point could the "Vaccine Passport" become an issue for them?  At the moment the majority of people don't have an issue with it,  double/triple jabbed and its simple to carry the passport as an app on the phone.   But perhaps some people have opted against having their kids vaccinated for now...what if they UP the "Vaccine Passports" for children and then you can't take your kids to the game?  What if they add another "Vaccine" to the "Vaccine Passport" that you don't think you need or want?  Would that then effect you when you lost your passport or were forced into taking a vaccine you didn't think you needed?  It all depends on whether this is a temporary measure or a money making exercise but the fact that every country is following the same narrative suggests is more about £££ than health.  The timing of the announcement couldn't be more perfect either, just as Boris is at threat to resign over a Christmas party he announces Plan B. 

Everyone has been effected by this Pandemic, we all have stories, some worse than others but everyone has been effected in some way.  It is not a selfish act to say we don't want "Vaccine Passports" in place.

[Galley is our king]

2 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

My father is a doctor 

A doctor specialising in what?

[Harry]

30 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

 No conspiracy at all sir. All verified information. Check it for yourself. Those persons you mention have worked in high places in pharma companies and are appointed by the government to the positions they currently hold. Some have financial interests in those companies. 
 

As for your next part - I haven’t denied covid or think there is any conspiracy. I know personally that covid is very real, having both had it myself and have family who have died from covid. So I think you get me wrong there, sir. 
Never have I denied covid doesn’t exist and that it is a very real issue, and that those who work in the nhs have had it tough. You’ll see from one of my earlier posts on this thread that I have praised people such as your daughter. 
However you’ll also see from my other posts that I believe the government (and their advisors and experts) have done nothing to help your daughter over the last 20 months and have absolutely no interest to do so. They have done nothing to get us through this virus except for “get jabbed”. That’s their only policy. And it’s one that lines many pockets. Where are the extra beds, where are the extra nurses, where is the well deserved extra pay for your daughter and her colleagues, where is the support to those most vulnerable (ie high BMI) to help them lose weight, eat healthily, get fit, to give them a much better outcome if they contract the virus, where are the army of nutritionists helping these people rather than an army of jabbers and an army of contact tracers? There are a myriad of things this government could have been doing to improve people’s outcomes but they’ve chosen to do nothing apart from continually put restrictions in place and “get jabbing”. 
If you trust any of them, not just Boris and his crony crew, but the so called ‘experts’, and you think they are all coming from an angle of ‘what’s best for your health’ then you are very wrong. Sage is full of scientific modellers and psychoanalysts. Why don’t they have any nutritionists advising them? Tell me one thing that they’ve put in place to help the actual health of the nation rather than just “jab jab jab”? 
As I say, no conspiracy sir. Covid exists. It’s not nice. But there are other things that can be and should’ve been done to help which are being ignored in favour of the huge money making policy they are following. 

25 minutes ago, pillred said:

You have been watching too many Monty Python sketches, crumbling council estate? you were lucky!! we lived in a WW2 bomb crater.

Yep. Horfield. Eden Grove & Emerson Square. Buildings had concrete cancer. They were falling apart. After we moved out the whole estate was torn down a year later and rebuilt. 
So yes. It was crumbling. No comedy sketch required. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Riaz]

Big Pharma is a very greedy and extremely corrupt industry. If you dont think this is true - i suggest educating yourself.

[Bristol Rob]

10 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

My father is a doctor 

Is he a GP who was given an honorary doctorate, or a Dr?

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Big Pharma is a very greedy and extremely corrupt industry. If you dont think this is true - i suggest educating yourself.

I don't think very many people dispute that. Pharamaceuticals is basically socialism for the rich - countries (including the UK) contribute millions to the cost of drug development only for big companies to take all the profits and sell back to the countries the drugs that countries have paid to develop.

The whole economic model is shocking.

But that doesn't change the fact that the researchers, scientists and medical experts who work for pharmaceutical companies are indeed researchers, scientists and medical experts and the level of testing any drug - including the vaccines - has to go through is high, with effective safeguards in place to manage risks. 

The economic model of pharamaceutical companies is appalling but that doesn't change the fact that the drugs they produce only make it to market once proven to work and to not cause harm and - once on the market - the monitoring processes are stringent. Drug companies are arseholes but the medicines they make are not the same as the economic system that produces them. 

[Riaz]

4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think very many people dispute that. Pharamaceuticals is basically socialism for the rich - countries (including the UK) contribute millions to the cost of drug development only for big companies to take all the profits and sell back to the countries the drugs that countries have paid to develop.

The whole economic model is shocking.

But that doesn't change the fact that the researchers, scientists and medical experts who work for pharmaceutical companies are indeed researchers, scientists and medical experts and the level of testing any drug - including the vaccines - has to go through is high, with effective safeguards in place to manage risks. 

The economic model of pharamaceutical companies is appalling but that doesn't change the fact that the drugs they produce only make it to market once proven to work and to not cause harm and - once on the market - the monitoring processes are stringent. Drug companies are arseholes but the medicines they make are not the same as the economic system that produces them. 

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

[pillred]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

 No conspiracy at all sir. All verified information. Check it for yourself. Those persons you mention have worked in high places in pharma companies and are appointed by the government to the positions they currently hold. Some have financial interests in those companies. 
 

As for your next part - I haven’t denied covid or think there is any conspiracy. I know personally that covid is very real, having both had it myself and have family who have died from covid. So I think you get me wrong there, sir. 
Never have I denied covid doesn’t exist and that it is a very real issue, and that those who work in the nhs have had it tough. You’ll see from one of my earlier posts on this thread that I have praised people such as your daughter. 
However you’ll also see from my other posts that I believe the government (and their advisors and experts) have done nothing to help your daughter over the last 20 months and have absolutely no interest to do so. They have done nothing to get us through this virus except for “get jabbed”. That’s their only policy. And it’s one that lines many pockets. Where are the extra beds, where are the extra nurses, where is the well deserved extra pay for your daughter and her colleagues, where is the support to those most vulnerable (ie high BMI) to help them lose weight, eat healthily, get fit, to give them a much better outcome if they contract the virus, where are the army of nutritionists helping these people rather than an army of jabbers and an army of contact tracers? There are a myriad of things this government could have been doing to improve people’s outcomes but they’ve chosen to do nothing apart from continually put restrictions in place and “get jabbing”. 
If you trust any of them, not just Boris and his crony crew, but the so called ‘experts’, and you think they are all coming from an angle of ‘what’s best for your health’ then you are very wrong. Sage is full of scientific modellers and psychoanalysts. Why don’t they have any nutritionists advising them? Tell me one thing that they’ve put in place to help the actual health of the nation rather than just “jab jab jab”? 
As I say, no conspiracy sir. Covid exists. It’s not nice. But there are other things that can be and should’ve been done to help which are being ignored in favour of the huge money making policy they are following. 

Yep. Horfield. Eden Grove & Emerson Square. Buildings had concrete cancer. They were falling apart. After we moved out the whole estate was torn down a year later and rebuilt. 
So yes. It was crumbling. No comedy sketch required. 

Sounds like we had a very similar upbringing amazing how different we have both turned out. I have no idea how old you are but I'm hoping there is still time for you to come to your senses, no denying some have made a great deal of money out of this but to say the government have done nothing to get us through this is frankly laughable, how about paying millions of people 80% of their wages and almost certainly saving many companies from going bankrupt with all the job loses that would have entailed, I have no idea where you get these views from but some of them are misguided at best.

[LondonBristolian]

6 minutes ago, Riaz said:

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

Which is why you need the systems in place to prevent abuse. And those systems are there.

[Kid in the Riot]

19 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

My last views on Vaccine Passports as I can already see the friendly bunch from the politics/covid forum have found the topic and now want to take over it with their scientific opinions and bash others that don't follow the same narrative as them.

You sound like an evangelical Christian from a flyover state. 

"Don't come around here with your "science"!" 

[Harry]

8 minutes ago, pillred said:

Sounds like we had a very similar upbringing amazing how different we have both turned out. I have no idea how old you are but I'm hoping there is still time for you to come to your senses, no denying some have made a great deal of money out of this but to say the government have done nothing to get us through this is frankly laughable, how about paying millions of people 80% of their wages and almost certainly saving many companies from going bankrupt with all the job loses that would have entailed, I have no idea where you get these views from but some of them are misguided at best.

I said they’ve done nothing for your health. 
Oh, they’ve helped financially. Money is their expertise. 
Tell me one campaign they’ve funded to help morbidly obese people to help themselves. 80% of those who end up in icu are obese. What have they done to mitigate this. To help these people achieve better outcomes. 
When did you last hear from the governments specialist nutritionists? Do they even have any? Could £36 billion have been spent on setting up one to one consultations with the most vulnerable people and help them to achieve a better outcome. You think this kind of thing is misguided?? 
You think it’s misguided to call for help and support for the most vulnerable and to call for extra support and facilities for the nhs?? You think this is misguided?? 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

 

Have you really thought through how many politicians, scientists, doctors, nurses, statisticians, even undertakers and so on would have to be "bought" to maintain a phoney Pandemic? In every country of the world.

Everyone from Jacinta Arden to Kim Jong Un from Angela Merkel to Vladimir Putin to Justin Trudeau etc etc etc.

How big a bribe do you think Pfizer/AZ/Moderna/Johnson & Johnson have paid to persuade democratic leaders to do something that adversely affects their nation's economy and makes them likely to lose power?  Not just couldnt-care-less shits like Johnson, but proper, decent politicians. 

And why wouldn't the rival Big Pharma companies call this out if a massive fraud - bigger than anything in human history - is being perpetrated on the world by their competitors?

And why would not-for-profit institutions, like our universities, get involved? The Chinese and Russian vaccines were developed and are distributed by state institutions and are not sold for profit. If it's all a scam for cash, why are they involved?

While there have been people cashing in throughout this Pandemic, shamelessly enabled by our government, the idea that the entire thing is made-up or exaggerated for the benefit of four companies is nuts.  

We know from Watergate that you can't keep a conspiracy hushed up for weeks, even when it involves fewer than a dozen people. Right here, "partygate" leaked to the Mirror, even though apparently only 30-40 attended.

To maintain a global conspiracy for two years involving bribes from pharmaceutical companies to literally tens of thousands of people if not hundreds of thousands of people, a whistleblower would have emerged with concrete evidence.  None has.

The whole idea is a fantasy.