Vaccine Passport - Plan B

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Have you really thought through how many politicians, scientists, doctors, nurses, statisticians, even undertakers and so on would have to be "bought" to maintain a phoney Pandemic? In every country of the world.

Everyone from Jacinta Arden to Kim Jong Un from Angela Merkel to Vladimir Putin to Justin Trudeau etc etc etc.

How big a bribe do you think Pfizer/AZ/Moderna/Johnson & Johnson have paid to persuade democratic leaders to do something that adversely affects their nation's economy and makes them likely to lose power?  Not just couldnt-care-less shits like Johnson, but proper, decent politicians. 

And why wouldn't the rival Big Pharma companies call this out if a massive fraud - bigger than anything in human history - is being perpetrated on the world by their competitors?

And why would not-for-profit institutions, like our universities, get involved? The Chinese and Russian vaccines were developed and are distributed by state institutions and are not sold for profit. If it's all a scam for cash, why are they involved?

While there have been people cashing in throughout this Pandemic, shamelessly enabled by our government, the idea that the entire thing is made-up or exaggerated for the benefit of four companies is nuts.  

We know from Watergate that you can't keep a conspiracy hushed up for weeks, even when it involves fewer than a dozen people. Right here, "partygate" leaked to the Mirror, even though apparently only 30-40 attended.

To maintain a global conspiracy for two years involving bribes from pharmaceutical companies to literally tens of thousands of people if not hundreds of thousands of people, a whistleblower would have emerged with concrete evidence.  None has.

The whole idea is a fantasy. 

You wouldnt need too many people in on it.

[spudski]

47 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I know various people - including some on these boards - who work as doctors and nurses in hospitals. I think I'll listen to them on whether hospitals are currently being over-run, rather than someone on the internet who has no idea what is happening in hospitals but feels the need to pretend otherwise.

Most people with underlying health conditions - diabetics included - don't get hospitalised if they get the flu. Especially as the flu jab massively drops the side effects. But, even without vaccination, flu doesn't hospitalise anywhere the numbers that COVID does.

 

If you don't know something, admit you don't know it. Making inaccurate statements that you hope to be true is very easy for everyone else to see through. You're welcome to your opinion on all this but please don't invent facts. 

I'm not...your comment of ' I know people' doesn't hold. So do I...and all of them disagree. If people on front line disagree, what hope do we have. 

My father was in Southmead at the height of restrictions with Brain Tumor. When I went to visit, the place was virtually empty. Never seen a hospital so quiet. So we all have different experiences. 

The one thing that's obvious, is that we've all become divided, all become 'experts' depending on who we listen to, all have made our own decisions based on those we listen too.

Fact is...we are becoming less human. Don't mix is the mantra...avoid people. If that isn't going to screw us up long term then I don't know what is.

On a side note...anyone thinking Scientists, experts don't have an angle then they are severely naive. All are paid by organisations, Governments, Pharmaceutical industries etc that have people that make vast amounts of money from this scenario. There is no reason they want to this situation to conclude, it's in their benefit. It's the same as when we have wars...people die, but a lot of people who aren't affected by the war make Billions from them.

We live in a world of agenda and lies. And it's Joe public that bares the brunt of it.

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, pillred said:

Sounds like we had a very similar upbringing amazing how different we have both turned out. I have no idea how old you are but I'm hoping there is still time for you to come to your senses, no denying some have made a great deal of money out of this but to say the government have done nothing to get us through this is frankly laughable, how about paying millions of people 80% of their wages and almost certainly saving many companies from going bankrupt with all the job loses that would have entailed, I have no idea where you get these views from but some of them are misguided at best.

The government get next to no credit from me for the furlough scheme for one simple reason; they literally had no choice. The only alternative they had was, like you say, to put thousands of businesses out of business and millions on the dole, which would have cost them considerably more money and also probably seen mass protests and the government collapsing. They had no choice, zero. 

11 minutes ago, Harry said:

I said they’ve done nothing for your health. 
Oh, they’ve helped financially. Money is their expertise. 
Tell me one campaign they’ve funded to help morbidly obese people to help themselves. 80% of those who end up in icu are obese. What have they done to mitigate this. To help these people achieve better outcomes. 
When did you last hear from the governments specialist nutritionists? Do they even have any? Could £36 billion have been spent on setting up one to one consultations with the most vulnerable people and help them to achieve a better outcome. You think this kind of thing is misguided?? 
You think it’s misguided to call for help and support for the most vulnerable and to call for extra support and facilities for the nhs?? You think this is misguided?? 

They have began this process to be fair: The government commissioned National Food Strategy published early this year. 200 pages long and lots of excellent recommendations. It looks like most of it will be adopted as government policy, however Johnson is opposed to one of its key pillars - a tax levy on sugar and salt. It's true to say this is classic Johnson not putting people's health first, and instead being more worried about his popularity ratings. 

There has already been a sugary drinks tax levy brought in a couple of years ago, which has been successful. 

[bbew]

I often wonder what the benefits to peoples health would have been if the government and scientific advisors had used half as much effort encouraging people to get fit and healthy that they used in warning people of the dangers of covid, and the fear this has had on so many.

We know 1 million people get admitted to hospital each year (2,700 a day) where being overweight is a factor, and we know covid disproportionately effects those that are overweight - but not a whisper.

 

What huge benefits to peoples health there could have been if Boris or Chris Whitty just took 20 seconds during a press conference to encourage people to see a doctor if they have concerns about their health (and encourage those that are not visiting a doctor as are scared to catch covid or be a burden on the NHS), given we know advanced stages of cancer, heart disease and strokes are through the roof - not a whisper.

Edited December 10, 2021 by bbew

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The government get next to no credit from me for the furlough scheme for one simple reason; they literally had no choice. The only alternative they had was, like you say, to put thousands of businesses out of business and millions on the dole, which would have cost them considerably more money and also probably seen mass protests and the government collapsing. They had no choice, zero. 

They have began this process to be fair: The government commissioned National Food Strategy published early this year. 200 pages long and lots of excellent recommendations. It looks like most of it will be adopted as government policy, however Johnson is opposed to one of its key pillars - a tax levy on sugar and salt. It's true to say this is classic Johnson not putting people's health first, and instead being more worried about his popularity ratings. 

There has already been a sugary drinks tax levy brought in a couple of years ago, which has been successful. 

The food strategy is not specific to covid though. What have they done to specifically target those persons who are at most risk of dying from covid - those with high BMI? 
The £36 billion spunked on t&t could have paid for 1.2 million people at a salary of £30k. That’s how far that money goes. 
Why isn’t there an army of nutritionists, personal trainers, mentors etc, personally visiting those who are at highest risk, putting them on health programmes, teaching them to eat healthily, mentoring them to a new lifestyle to mitigate their major risk factor. 
Doing that could massively slash the number of people who end up in icu. 
The food strategy that you mention has absolutely zero traction in the real lives of the real people who need help to get healthy. 
As you say, in agreement with what I posted, they haven’t even got their own food strategy right because of concerns over money rather than concerns over the actual health of the population. As I said. None of these people care about your health. Demonstrated by the fact they’ve done absolutely bugger all to help those most at risk of covid due to specific health issues that they can help correct for a better outcome. 
 

They don’t care about you. They don’t care about anyone. They care only for themselves. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[LoyalRed]

9 minutes ago, bbew said:

I often wonder what the benefits to peoples health would have been if the government and scientific advisors had used half as much effort encouraging people to get fit and healthy that they used in warning people of the dangers of covid, and the fear this has had on so many.

We know 1 million people get admitted to hospital each year (2,700 a day) where being overweight is a factor, and we know covid disproportionately effects those that are overweight - but not a whisper.

 

What huge benefits to peoples health there could have been if Boris or Chris Whitty just took 20 seconds during a press conference to encourage people to see a doctor if they have concerns about their health (and encourage those that are not visiting a doctor as are scared to catch covid or be a burden on the NHS), given we know advanced stages of cancer, heart disease and strokes are through the roof - not a whisper.

Far too many people want the easy way out.  The easy way out for most is to roll up their sleeve and get the booster and then head off to Greggs for their fix.   

You are right though, if they used the same scare tactics to encourage people to exercise then it might scare them enough to get off their sofa's.  

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Hospitals aren't being overrun. This variant has very mild symptoms. You get it and recover at home. 

The people vulnerable are those with underlying health issues like diabetes. They'd be hospitalised like most years if they caught the flu.

There is no reason to bring in more restrictions. 

Two years now...new mutations, new boosters, it just goes on and on. 

Are you willing to go through the rest of your life living this way? Because it's not going away...ever. It will mutate every year, just like the flu. There will be new vaccines every year, just like flu.

Politicians lie to us everyday...funnily we are outraged the most because of a few parties. We should be outraged everyday at their lies.

Oddly we know they lie, manipulate media, pay people etc etc. It's been the way of Governments for ever.

Yet the population believe every word coming out of their mouths on this issue. Without question..just follow. 

How divided we all have become. 

 

 

The new variant clearly spreads quicker.  It also appears to be milder. If it was looking more severe we'd be ******.

 

That will mean more cases but a lower percentage of these cases leading to serious illness.

What we don't know is whether the total number of serious illness cases will increase. Depends on the exact percentages and numbers and will probably only become clear around Christmas.

Any scientist or mathematician would be cautious in this scenario but the experts on OTIB know better

 

[LoyalRed]

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

[Red-Robbo]

31 minutes ago, Riaz said:

You wouldnt need too many people in on it.

 

Er, I think to get the leaders of 200 odd nations to go along with it, you'd need a pretty big conspiracy and involving the most eminent people in their field.

It is true that there are a tiny number of Covid-sceptic scientists, but no-one who works currently in the field of virology, epidemiology or pharmacology is saying Covid is anything other than it is - the dangerous zoonotic pandemic that experts had warned might be coming, but politicians ignored because preparing for pandemics is costly and not a "sexy" vote-winner.   On average, human society suffers a pandemic every hundred years. "Spanish flu" our last one, was 1918-1920, so this one was pretty much right on schedule. No "Big Pharma" involved in that one, or the Black Death, Plague of Justinian etc etc.

We have doctors and nurses working in our hospitals who post on this board. They have seen Covid deaths up close and know how under-pressure hospital services are.  Are you saying they are liars?

Edited December 10, 2021 by Red-Robbo

[phantom]

The English Football League has reportedly issued new advice to segregate players into those who are doubled jabbed against coronavirus, boosted, previously infected and unvaccinated on team coaches.

The Government has introduced new measures to try to tackle the spread of the Omicron variant and now the EFL, which covers the three leagues beneath the Premier League, has taken steps in an effort to limit the impact within football.

The 72 clubs across the Championship, League One and League Two are being instructed to think about how they split up their players when travelling to and from matches to try to reduce possible transmission, according to The Telegraph. 

The report also claims that the EFL's guidance is that goalkeepers within its divisions should not train together to lessen the chance of becoming a 'close contact' should there be a positive Covid test and therefore reduce the likelihood of disruption.

The EFL have reportedly sent all of its members new guidance to consider until the end of next month in a bid to prevent matches being postponed over what is a typically jam-packed festive period.

While the Premier League has also contacted all 20 top-flight clubs to re-impose their emergency Covid measures, and both football bodies strongly advise against Christmas parties this month. 

EFL players have also been instructed to bear in mind contact 'outside of their bubble', social distancing while at work, including not all sitting down for meals at the same time.

The news comes after Tottenham's Premier League clash against Brighton, scheduled for Sunday, was postponed due to the Covid outbreak within the camp. Spurs also saw Thursday's European Conference League match against Rennes called off.

As coronavirus continues to take grip of English football, top-flight officials have sent a memo to all clubs informing them of the decision to revert back to emergency measures.

Teams have been forced to abide by a stringent set of protocols since the return of football in June 2020, including social distancing and the use of PPE at training grounds, but those have slowly relaxed in recent months thanks to increasing vaccination rates among players.

But the Premier League have told all 20 teams that the long-standing emergency measures are now back in place.

Meanwhile, proof of coronavirus vaccination or a negative lateral flow test will be required for spectators to attend sporting events in England with crowds of over 10,000 after the Government announced it is to implement 'Plan B'.

[CyderInACan]

9 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

How have they been forced or coerced to get the jab? 

[lenred]

10 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

Cool story. Thanks for sharing.  

[spudski]

14 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The new variant clearly spreads quicker.  It also appears to be milder. If it was looking more severe we'd be ******.

 

That will mean more cases but a lower percentage of these cases leading to serious illness.

What we don't know is whether the total number of serious illness cases will increase. Depends on the exact percentages and numbers and will probably only become clear around Christmas.

Any scientist or mathematician would be cautious in this scenario but the experts on OTIB know better

 

Yes...go about your life and proceed with caution. Wear a mask if you want. Vaccine if you want. And if you have underlying health issues proceed with even more caution. We don't need the restrictions in place now though that don't make any sense. There is no need for a passport for a vaccine, and why be made to wear a mask in a supermarket when I can sing and dance elsewhere, drink in packed pub, go to the enclosed gym and breath heavily inside there. 

People think you are the most selfish person if I walk around supermarket with no mask...but I can be sat next to said person in packed pub, enclosed sharing drinks etc. It's mental.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes...go about your life and proceed with caution. Wear a mask if you want. Vaccine if you want. And if you have underlying health issues proceed with even more caution. We don't need the restrictions in place now though that don't make any sense. There is no need for a passport for a vaccine, and why be made to wear a mask in a supermarket when I can sing and dance elsewhere, drink in packed pub, go to the enclosed gym and breath heavily inside there. 

People think you are the most selfish person if I walk around supermarket with no mask...but I can be sat next to said person in packed pub, enclosed sharing drinks etc. It's mental.

I do think the pub thing is the weird standout in all of this. Why it hasn’t gone back to table service I don’t really know.  Definitely some foibles in the rules but some better than none.  

[Red-Robbo]

31 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

 

How young are the children and which country insists on having the entire family vaccinated?

In the UK, vaccines are not routinely offered to under-13s.

[LoyalRed]

8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

How young are the children and which country insists on having the entire family vaccinated?

In the UK, vaccines are not routinely offered to under-13s.

They have 4 children so an array for ages ranging from 16 to 5.  They holiday pretty much everywhere, from cruises in the Caribbean to Skiing trips and sunshine holidays in Europe.

[Red-Robbo]

15 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

They have 4 children so an array for ages ranging from 16 to 5.  They holiday pretty much everywhere, from cruises in the Caribbean to Skiing trips and sunshine holidays in Europe.

 

But all the UK requires is holidaymakers coming back from abroad test and potentially isolate if they've been in certain high-infection countries:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-abroad-from-england-during-coronavirus-covid-19

If any country requires all visitors to be vaccinated, then that is their policy, not the UK government's.  I'm unaware of any country that requires proof of vaccination for under-12s, certainly Greece and Spain do not, so your friends can still have a foreign holiday.

 

[The Bard]

55 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

Listen I don't know your friends, and this will probably sound rude, but they don't half sound infantile. 

 

And that is basically the problem if you ask me. Literally millions of people who don't understand the concept of personal responsibility.  Johnson really is their Prime Minister.  

[LoyalRed]

7 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Listen I don't know your friends, and this will probably sound rude, but they don't half sound infantile. 

 

And that is basically the problem if you ask me. Literally millions of people who don't understand the concept of personal responsibility.  Johnson really is their Prime Minister.  

I don't think you can put this solely on Johnson's shoulders, can't really see any other party challenging to step up as nobody wants it.  I also feel like a lot of the country are under the same opinion that they have been misled/misguided/lied to and that number is growing everyday and the rest are living in fear.

[DT The Optimist]

Really enjoyed this thread. Footie fans, key board warriors like me  experts on the pharmaceutical indiustry, to government conspiracy’s and the like.

All I know is I am jabbed up, was mildly Poorly with covid in 2020 and now I can go to the Gate provided provided I have the vaccine  passport or  negative LFT result. No big deal. 
Yesterday  I was at the NEC BIKE show. Could only gain admittance with the above. Not a hint of anyone bellyaching moaning about it. Guess if you did not have the above you never turned up.  your choice. Still heaving with people. 

As a side issue and as a bit of fun I did not show my vaccine passport  stamp at NEC entrance but instead my Tesco club card app which is similar colour and appearance. In I went. Nothing was scanned. Wonder what the stewards will do at AG 

 

[James54De]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

The virus doesn't choose to be different from country to country. We are all humans. It affects us the same way. The ' experts' do agree it's mild.

Seriously this is not about health and spreading anymore. 

The government listen to the experts, then put in rules that don't make any sense.

It's totally symbolic. 

You've got world leaders mixing, putting on masks for the cameras, then taking them off when meeting others, shaking hands and hugging.

Why anyone else can't see this amazes me.

These Governments, world leaders listen to the experts and scientists first hand. They get all the info. Yet they don't abide by the rules they set for us.

As human beings, you would do as advised by the Scientists. You wouldn't ignore it. So why are the Government going about their lives like there is nothing to worry about...they aren't in fear of getting ill. What do they know that we don't. They would comply whole heartedly if otherwise for their own health.

scientists don’t agree it’s “mild”. It has been stated that verrrryyy early indications suggest it may lead to shorter hospital stays and less deaths. Encouraging indications? yes. Agreement? Absolutely not. There was also the same things being said about Alpha, and that ended up cause higher rates of hospitalisation and death than previous strains. 
In fact, hospitalisations are now ticking up in the UK, about a week after cases did, so who knows. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Blimey lot of bickering.

Safe too say some are getting the needle...

[2015]

3 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

You sound very pleasant and reasonable

[The Bard]

8 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

I don't think you can put this solely on Johnson's shoulders, can't really see any other party challenging to step up as nobody wants it.  I also feel like a lot of the country are under the same opinion that they have been misled/misguided/lied to and that number is growing everyday and the rest are living in fear.

That wasn't my point.

The Prime minister has no concept of personal responsibility and that's why he's been popular with a lot of people inspite of being useless. A lot of people see themselves in him. However,  this is the real world and it will always catch up with such a serial bullshitter ( a la Mark Ashton).

 

[BrizzleRed]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

As can the conspiracy theorists, So what’s the difference?

[Clevedon Red]

57 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Wonder what the stewards will do at AG 

 

Are all the stewards asked to show a passport before working?

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, DT The Optimist said:

Really enjoyed this thread. Footie fans, key board warriors like me  experts on the pharmaceutical indiustry, to government conspiracy’s and the like.

All I know is I am jabbed up, was mildly Poorly with covid in 2020 and now I can go to the Gate provided provided I have the vaccine  passport or  negative LFT result. No big deal. 
Yesterday  I was at the NEC BIKE show. Could only gain admittance with the above. Not a hint of anyone bellyaching moaning about it. Guess if you did not have the above you never turned up.  your choice. Still heaving with people. 

As a side issue and as a bit of fun I did not show my vaccine passport  stamp at NEC entrance but instead my Tesco club card app which is similar colour and appearance. In I went. Nothing was scanned. Wonder what the stewards will do at AG 

 

 

I'll never forget a time I was shown round a big military base in the company of lots of other journalists.  

It was top security as it was in the early 90s when the IRA were still active in England, and there were lots of Top Brass and other VIPs at this event. You had to flash a special pass with photo ID at the gate to be allowed in, then show it again to meet the generals and ministers in attendance.

A friend of mine who I'll keep anonymous for his own good had pasted a picture of a gorilla from Planet of the Apes on his pass instead of his own photo. He was waved through the perimeter gates without a qualm by two banks of sentries. 

Ah, the good old British squaddie.  

[Harry]

19 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I'll never forget a time I was shown round a big military base in the company of lots of other journalists.  

It was top security as it was in the early 90s when the IRA were still active in England, and there were lots of Top Brass and other VIPs at this event. You had to flash a special pass with photo ID at the gate to be allowed in, then show it again to meet the generals and ministers in attendance.

A friend of mine who I'll keep anonymous for his own good had pasted a picture of a gorilla from Planet of the Apes on his pass instead of his own photo. He was waved through the perimeter gates without a qualm by two banks of sentries. 

Ah, the good old British squaddie.  

Clearly the squaddie looked at the picture of the gorilla, looked at you both (likely giggling like schoolgirls about your hilarious prank) and thought “the IRA aren’t even as dense as these idiot journo’s - just go on through and get out of my life”. 

[Red-Robbo]

28 minutes ago, Harry said:

Clearly the squaddie looked at the picture of the gorilla, looked at you both (likely giggling like schoolgirls about your hilarious prank) and thought “the IRA aren’t even as dense as these idiot journo’s - just go on through and get out of my life”. 

 I heard about this later, I was not in the same car.  

Still this guy could have been anyone. The squaddies (plural) were not doing their job. Didn't care about others' safety.  I wonder if they are anti-vaxxers now?

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 I heard about this later, I was not in the same car.  

Still this guy could have been anyone. The squaddies (plural) were not doing their job. Didn't care about others' safety.  I wonder if they are anti-vaxxers now?

Probably. I’ve met a helluva lot of good squaddies. Salt of the earth.