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Vaccine Passport - Plan B


Bristol Rob

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7 hours ago, pillred said:

This a long goodbye considering 18 hours ago you said you were leaving the discussion.

Did I? 
Where? 
One thinks you may be mixing up your conspiracy theorists. Someone else said they’d be leaving the discussion. I certainly didn’t. 
How’s the head this morning? You were clearly somewhat muddled last night. 

Edited by Harry
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We were just at the point where it looked like the U.K. (England) would be the first country in the world to move into the endemic stage without having to introduce vaccine passports.  Then suddenly Boris is being framed, a new variant is in play and vaccine passports get introduced.  What rotten timing...

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7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Re: BBC . Not dubious H. I left journalism in 2011. This is a commercial contract with my company still in dispute.  Public face = Auntie Beeb; Private behaviour = absolute c****. Details on PM for anyone interested. 

The reason I said your stance is this season's "I WILL BOO" is I honestly don't see it forcing City or any other club affected to do anything.  As far as the vast majority of fans go, downloading a straightforward app and flashing a green tick at turnstiles is pain-free and a trivial inconvenience. 

For most companies- like mine for example - the new restrictions are also pain-free and a minor inconvenience. 

Nothing will change. You'll watch 4th tier football, but nothing will change. 

In your your heart you know I'm right. 

I agree, nothing will change. 
However, “in your heart you know I’m right”. Ha ha. You’re an ex-journo. In my heart I know you are full of crap. 
 

Anyway, just so we’re clear. “The new restrictions are pain free and a minor inconvenience”. So, this means that you are ok with discrimination. 
No problem if you are. That’s your bag. But I’m not. Even if that particular discrimination is easy and pain free for you. 

Edited by Harry
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On 09/12/2021 at 11:56, Eddie Hitler said:

 

It's certainly odd.

If you have a 'flu jab then you will rapidly fight off a 'flu infection if it is one of the four strains forming the vaccine this year (plus residual protection from previous years' vaccines).

You do still catch 'flu, and can infect others, but it is extremely mild and barely noticeable if it is one of the strains vaccinated.

Yet with Covid vaccines people are still becoming very ill and in some cases dying and there is no specific strain protection ascribed to any of them despite there being just five strains in nearly two years: alpha, beta, gamma, delta and then bizarrely omicron rather than epsilon.

It strikes me as being very much a "hit and hope" strategy with some serious current side effects, albeit in small numbers, with unknown longer term effects.

The exhortation to take them has also switched from the usual personalised medical encouragement of "take the 'flu jab to protect yourself" to a big state message of "take a Covid vaccine to protect the NHS" with side effects like the one reported in the Herald yesterday regarded as acceptable collateral damage.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/popular-devon-dad-footballer-died-6320625

Well if you were him or his family you would think otherwise.

The old medical rule of "first do no harm" has been shed like a used disposable face mask and should now be rewritten to "do whatever harm it takes as long as it avoids putting strain upon the NHS".

It's a subtle shift and people have failed to notice it by continued use of "we" and "us" when what is meant is "the NHS".

I'll stick to boosting my immune system with Vitamin D. It may not be as effective as a vaccine but it sure as hell doesn't come with death as an apparently acceptable side effect.

Typical of someone who has “done the research”

Theres been more than five variants. We didn’t just jump to Omicron

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14 hours ago, pillred said:

It's been around for at least a month, more than enough time for doctors or scientists to have been able to come to some sort of conclusion, so far the vast majority of people who have had it are now recovered and were not hospitalised I mean a 255% increase in cases in S Africa and a tiny rise in hospital cases how much more proof do you need?

It’s no where near a “tiny rise”. Hospitalisations have increased by 600% in South Africa. 

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11 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Don’t know how to highlight a sentence so when you say you would promote healthy eating and exercise I have to ask why,everyone bloody knows it’s better than eating 12 Big Mac meals so why waste money on what is someone’s choice 

You say that but it’s not that simple. I bet most people couldn’t tell you how many calories they should be eating per day or the breakdown of macro and micronutrients for actual health benefits.

Exercise is also a minefield if you look at it from someone who has never stepped in a gym before. Every PT you speak to will likely have a different opinion on what is “good” and “bad” - and factor in people who can’t run or walk maybe, what can they do to exercise? Or the elderly and the disabled?

Trying to get my disabled father in law to exercise for example is very difficult. He needs a PT who specialises in helping people with his condition to understand what he can and can’t do and how to work around those limitations.

He has to pay for that PT himself 

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10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the actual football bits, spot checks being mooted.

Could that cause issues or am I underestimating people's understanding of the issues. Bit in the Times today speaks of it being up to SAGs to decide whether all fans should be checked.

Says something about SAGs stipulating the numbers that would need checking. Suggests 1 in 4 could be the number but I guess it could be a bit of a postcode lottery.

As for the other stuff, would ask indeed what happened to the Nightingale Hospitals. Could be very useful.

Other bit, Matt Hughes has said in the Daily Mail that clubs are scrambling for extra stewards in order to try and make this work.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10290411/Premier-League-EFL-clubs-scramble-hire-stewards-Plan-B-Covid-restrictions.html

There wasn’t enough staff for the nightingale hospitals, it was a publicity stunt. A Tory donor probably profited from their setup.

 

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9 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

There wasn’t enough staff for the nightingale hospitals, it was a publicity stunt. A Tory donor probably profited from their setup.

 

Ah yes, now I remember.

I suppose too thinking about it, Nightingale Hospitals would have been more relevant when it was treated as a State of Emergency kinda thing, business functions of say Exhibition Centres given over to Nightingale Hospitals.

UAE own Excel I know that, Abu Dhabi National Exhibitions Company to be exact. Wonder how much they made from it. Blackstone were another involved in the Nightingale side, although a report did say both scrapped charges. No idea if it's true.

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6 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

The normal rules for licensing a vaccine together with liability of the manufacturer for side effects.

This is very wordy but it's in there; stated reason being (obviously) that it's a pandemic.

https://post.parliament.uk/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccines-in-the-uk/

 

If you look at how a vaccine is usually tested then here is the TB one for cattle which is required to have a four year trial before it can be licensed for general use.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/green-light-for-ground-breaking-bovine-tb-vaccine-field-trials

 

Just wondering what your proposed alternative would be?  

Do you sit on the vaccine for 4 years and test while possibly millions are dying, or do what has been done?  

It’s undeniably tragic for the 75 people who have reportedly died due to the vaccine, but I wonder how many of the 150,000 who’ve died of covid would have jumped at the chance to get a jab to try and save their life.

There are rarely absolutes in this world, but if this vaccine release was a calculated gamble, it’s been a very successful one and I shudder to think what state the world would be now without it.

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1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

Just wondering what your proposed alternative would be?  

Do you sit on the vaccine for 4 years and test while possibly millions are dying, or do what has been done?  

It’s undeniably tragic for the 75 people who have reportedly died due to the vaccine, but I wonder how many of the 150,000 who’ve died of covid would have jumped at the chance to get a jab to try and save their life.

There are rarely absolutes in this world, but if this vaccine release was a calculated gamble, it’s been a very successful one and I shudder to think what state the world would be now without it.

 

Everyone makes their own decision based upon balance of probabilities but the choice is informed by the fact that the normal rules to ensure that vaccines are safe have been removed.

If I was over 70 or already ill then I would have chosen to have one of the vaccines; as I'm neither I haven't.

What I am against is the huge exhortation for everyone to take one of the several vaccines multiple times without flagging up that these would in normal times be regarded as still very much trial / experimental vaccines.

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5 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Back to the original purpose of this thread which was how will it affect us going to AG, are vaccine passports a thing from today or do they not kick in till next week?

Next week I believe although I think some clubs have already implemented spot checks. Last chance for the non believers today! 

Edited by lenred
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3 hours ago, Harry said:

“Most mutations aren’t more dangerous, and any dangerous mutations are very rare.”

No, I’m not an epidemiologist. But that’s what 100% of them will tell you. 

They will also advise not to let a new virus, which kills, to go unchecked and tear through societies, including new strains which they still know little about.

Hence, the courses of action that have been recommended/taken over the past two years. 

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38 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Everyone makes their own decision based upon balance of probabilities but the choice is informed by the fact that the normal rules to ensure that vaccines are safe have been removed.

If I was over 70 or already ill then I would have chosen to have one of the vaccines; as I'm neither I haven't.

What I am against is the huge exhortation for everyone to take one of the several vaccines multiple times without flagging up that these would in normal times be regarded as still very much trial / experimental vaccines.

Can understand that.  The point is any, and I mean any vaccine or other medication carries a potential risk, so where do you draw the line?   

I’d be interested to know if there’s any poll that’s been done with un-vaxinated people in hospital with covid.  It would certainly be interesting to know if given their situation, they wished they would have opted for the jab after all, or are still glad they didn’t.  I’m not a betting man, but I reckon the majority wish they could turn back the clock.

The danger is, it appears that many aren’t making informed decisions about not having the vaccine and are instead basing their decision on rubbish they see on social media, a friend has heard, or some bloke down the pub.

It still seems odd that many seem willing to trust the opinions of the uninformed and rumours, rather than the experts in their field.

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58 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Everyone makes their own decision based upon balance of probabilities but the choice is informed by the fact that the normal rules to ensure that vaccines are safe have been removed.

If I was over 70 or already ill then I would have chosen to have one of the vaccines; as I'm neither I haven't.

What I am against is the huge exhortation for everyone to take one of the several vaccines multiple times without flagging up that these would in normal times be regarded as still very much trial / experimental vaccines.

Ironically, one Vaccine that might be safer, more traditional tech isn't on offer! Valneva, we ie the Government suddenly withdrew interest in September.

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Boy this thread is depressing.

The “tin foil hats, it’s all a government conspiracy, why should I get vaccinated” are out in force.

Omicron is going to be seriously bad news, forget what South Africa shows, as the populations aren’t remotely comparable, theirs is far younger & has a lifestyle more attuned to outdoors, plus the rate at which it spreads is far, far faster than previous strains.

The current measures far from being too much, aren’t going to be enough or we’ll have thousands of additional deaths.

Of course though I only say this because I am also part of some sinister cabal that wants to put a microchip in every citizen, including children..

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4 hours ago, LoyalRed said:

We were just at the point where it looked like the U.K. (England) would be the first country in the world to move into the endemic stage without having to introduce vaccine passports.  Then suddenly Boris is being framed, a new variant is in play and vaccine passports get introduced.  What rotten timing...

Boris is being framed?

You muppet.

Only thing with Boris is to choose which of his multiple lies, corrupt acts or incompetence to use to get rid of him. 

He's always been a dead man walking. 

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1 minute ago, The Bard said:

Boris is being framed?

You muppet.

Only thing with Boris is to choose which of his multiple lies, corrupt acts or incompetence to use to get rid of him. 

He's always been a dead man walking. 

So are you telling me that something which occurred almost 12 months ago and kept under wraps for all this time wasn’t recently deliberately put out to try and get rid of him ? 

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12 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

The scientists are in uproar about it so make of that what you will.  

Right thanks ?

Well, in that case I’d far rather the useless media put some energy into investigating something important like that, rather than giving blanket coverage on some poxy office party.

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Just now, BrizzleRed said:

Right thanks ?

Well, in that case I’d far rather the useless media put some energy into investigating something important like that, rather than giving blanket coverage on some poxy office party.

An office party that could also have occurred with other parties as well.  

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4 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

An office party that could also have occurred with other parties as well.  

Tbh, that pales into insignificance if there’s a safer and still effective vaccine that the government chose to ignore.

I’ll stick by my previous statement.  There is far too much petty party politics going on and not enough emphasis on the really important issues.  

I’d like to know why the media aren’t over this mystery vaccine issue like a rash

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41 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

So are you telling me that something which occurred almost 12 months ago and kept under wraps for all this time wasn’t recently deliberately put out to try and get rid of him ? 

I'm telling you that he could have been got rid of at any point as he has a list of misdemeanours as long as any British Politician in my lifetime.  He's not being framed is he?  He's as guilty as a puppy next to a pile of poo.

 

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49 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

So are you telling me that something which occurred almost 12 months ago and kept under wraps for all this time wasn’t recently deliberately put out to try and get rid of him ? 

Pretty much nailed on that is the case!  Trouble is Boris doesn’t help himself.  

What with him and Captain Hindsight, we’ve got a right pair heading up our two main parties in this country.  

Some of the old leaders of the past must be spinning in their graves at what we’ve ended up with.

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5 hours ago, James54De said:

It’s no where near a “tiny rise”. Hospitalisations have increased by 600% in South Africa. 

Where the hell did you get the figure of 600% it's 83%, still a higher figure than I thought admittedly but the stays are down from 6 days to less than 2 days on average. and the vast majority of people are having mild symptoms. You also have to factor in the fact that less than a quarter of S Africans have had any vaccinations at all as opposed to over 80% here.

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7 hours ago, Harry said:

I agree, nothing will change. 
However, “in your heart you know I’m right”. Ha ha. You’re an ex-journo. In my heart I know you are full of crap. 
 

Anyway, just so we’re clear. “The new restrictions are pain free and a minor inconvenience”. So, this means that you are ok with discrimination. 
No problem if you are. That’s your bag. But I’m not. Even if that particular discrimination is easy and pain free for you. 

 

What's discrimation? Unvaccinated people can still go to watch City. They just need to get a PCR test.

Grow the **** up and stop being such big tantrum-throwing baby. 

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