Vaccine Passport - Plan B

[E.G.Red]

7 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Either isn't it?

My passport came back online today which is a relief.

PCR’s don’t give an instant result, whereas a lateral flow does . Also you can pick up Lateral Flow test at your library (pack of 7) or from certain pharmacies

[big p]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Hah - you asked the question, and sounds like you have no idea at all what you're actually asking for.

If you can't work out what the difference is between "of" and " with", then I definitely won't be wasting my time in explaining myself. Its pretty simple, :laugh:.

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, Redandproud said:

I agree,it's not city's fault they have to input the rules, if they don't ,they could be fined,

Just say it was a business meeting with cheese and wine 

[big p]

10 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Hah - you asked the question, and sounds like you have no idea at all what you're actually asking for.

Out of interest how long will you honestly tolerate restrictions?

[IAmNick]

3 minutes ago, big p said:

If you can't work out what the difference is between "of" and " with", then I definitely won't be wasting my time in explaining myself. Its pretty simple, :laugh:.

If it's so simple it's odd you can't explain it!

Many diseases greatly weaken us, but it's something else that actually kills us. It's not black and white like you're implying.

That's why none of these numbers and metrics are perfect, but you can look at them together and get a decent picture of things.

[IAmNick]

2 minutes ago, big p said:

Out of interest how long will you honestly tolerate restrictions?

What restrictions? Showing my phone before a game or whatever?

I don't like it, but I get why it's there. I'd obviously rather none at all as we all would... I don't enjoy any of them.

If it's a small thing I can do to help society then I'll do it. It's no skin off my back really. I went to an awards do in London a couple of weeks ago which required it, it was dead easy.

As to how long, it depends on what's going on - it's highly situational. I don't have a set time or whatever. With this new variant it seems sensible to increase them until we understand it and the impact it'll have more... the risk is not doing that, and then it's too late.

Edited December 11, 2021 by IAmNick

[big p]

Just now, IAmNick said:

If it's so simple it's odd you can't explain it!

Many diseases greatly weaken us, but it's something else that actually kills us. It's not black and white like you're implying.

That's why none of these numbers and metrics are perfect, but you can look at them together and get a decent picture of things.

Complete madness.

[BCFCGav]

Covid bad. Vaccine good. Ashton Gate safe(r). Easy.

[big p]

5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

What restrictions? Showing my phone before a game or whatever?

I don't like it, but I get why it's there. I'd obviously rather none at all as we all would... I don't enjoy any of them.

If it's a small thing I can do to help society then I'll do it. It's no skin off my back really. I went to an awards do in London a couple of weeks ago which required it, it was dead easy.

Answer the question then. How long will you tolerate the government imposing restrictions on our lives, be it lockdown, facemasks or vaccine passports?

Pretty sure I already know the answer.

Edited December 11, 2021 by big p

[IAmNick]

  

5 minutes ago, big p said:

Complete madness.

It's not at all. Cancer is a great example of an awful disease that kills people - but rarely is what actually kills them.

Take a cancer of the digestive system. It stops you absorbing food, so you die of malnutrition (or weakness due to it).

Liver cancer can and will screw up the chemical balance in your body.

If you get shot and as a result have a heart attack and die, did being shot kill you?

If you get covid, develop pnuemonia, are greatly weakened and die of infection did covid kill you?

As I said, it's not as simple as you're making out.

2 minutes ago, big p said:

Answer the question then. How longwill you tolerate the government imposing restrictions  on our lives, be it lockdown, facemasks or vaccine passports?

Pretty sure I already know the answer.

The problem is you're looking for a very simple answer to an extremely complex question - which says a lot about how you view this whole thing.

Right now, I think in a couple of months we should have a much clearer picture the impact Omicron will have so that seems like a sensible amount of time to review things. That could then be to continue restrictions, step them up, or remove them.

Like I said, I don't enjoy the restrictions at all. I really don't - but I do understand why they're there.

Edited December 11, 2021 by IAmNick

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Mr Hankey said:

As mentioned by @Red-Robbo, it wouldn’t likely be stated on the cert as the leading cause of death, but neither would “got run over by bus”! Would be worded differently, but there is evey chance it would be counted by the governments figures. There are usually more than one cause of death on the certificates which are listed in bullet points.
 

Sometimes covid is listed amongst other ailments much more serious, which you know would have been the cause of death regardless of whether they had the infection or not. That is what grates me. But don’t get me twisted, i am very much in favour of getting the vaccine, but at the same time i do think it should be a personal choice. Believe it or not, i am currently trying to get in touch with the NHS as they are not recording my second vaccine, despite getting it in September! All in all, world is a shit show & it aint getting better anytime soon

 

Cheers.  
I’ve always suspected we were being more honest than many countries in the number of covid deaths we’re counting.  

Not surprising as in the early days, the media seemed to clamouring to get anything possible counted as a covid death, then using it as a stuck to beat the government and show what a mess they were making.  In fairness they’ve responded and I can’t see that accusation can be made now and sounds like we aren’t actually too far off the true figure then.  

Makes the mind boggle to think what formula China has used to get figures as low as theirs though and I’d speculate it’s probably the bare faced lie method!!!

[big p]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

  

It's not at all. Cancer is a great example of an awful disease that kills people - but rarely is what actually kills them.

Take a cancer of the digestive system. It stops you absorbing food, so you die of malnutrition (or weakness due to it).

Liver cancer can and will screw up the chemical balance in your body.

If you get shot and as a result have a heart attack and die, did being shot kill you?

If you get covid, develop pnuemonia, are greatly weakened and die of infection did covid kill you?

As I said, it's not as simple as you're making out.

The problem is you're looking for a very simple answer to an extremely complex question - which says a lot about how you view this whole thing.

Right now, I think in a couple of months we should have a much clearer picture the impact Omicron will have so that seems like a sensible amount of time to review things. That could then be to continue restrictions, step them up, or remove them.

So if the situation where there's a new variant evolved in 2 years and the government said it "might "be nasty. You would still be happy under restrictions such as lockdown?

[IAmNick]

6 minutes ago, big p said:

So if the situation where there's a new variant evolved in 2 years and the government said it "might "be nasty. You would still be happy under restrictions such as lockdown?

Well if it could have a devastating impact on us then yeah. Wouldn't you?

Would you rather just do nothing at all from now on, and if we get totally screwed over then so be it?

[big p]

6 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Well if it could have a devastating impact on us then yeah. Wouldn't you?

Would you rather just do nothing at all from now on, and if we get totally screwed over then so be it?

Thought so, Jesus!

[IAmNick]

6 minutes ago, big p said:

Thought so, Jesus!

What would your plan be?

[Mr Popodopolous]

59 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Either isn't it?

My passport came back online today which is a relief.

May well be.

I'll rephrase. As well as the proof of vaccination, at this time an LFT is also acceptable.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Oh come on, I really don't believe the majority of "hesitant" people are because of the tech. No doubt they take, or are given all kinds of other medication, drugs, and put god knows what else in their body which they have absolutely no idea what they are, or the maturity of the tech behind it. Do they know what the chicken the guzzle down in KFC is washed with? What's in their cigarettes?

It's an excuse for many to make it sound like they have a legit reason. They didn't want it before they even know what MRNA was.

The vaccines and the tech/.knowledge behind them is incredibly complicated. A layman on the street like your or I has no idea the research, method, and efficacy of them. That would take years of complex study - which is why we have a lot of extremely intelligent people who do that for their entire lives for us.

Unsure I agree. I think there are a range of reasons and motives behind vaccine hesitancy.

I also stand by my view that a chunk of them albeit unsure how many, could be won over by eg Valneva.

[frenchred]

48 minutes ago, big p said:

Out of interest how long will you honestly tolerate restrictions?

I will ask you again, what restrictions?

[big p]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

I will ask you again, what restrictions?

Mandated mask wearing, vaccine passports, travel, social distancing,  lockdown. Zero covid restrictions which the government has under the Covid Act.

 

[frenchred]

Just now, big p said:

Mandated mask wearing, vaccine passports, travel, social distancing,  lockdown. Zero covid restrictions which the government has under the Covid Act.

 

I don't see mask wearing as a restriction, just another piece of dress nowadays. Vaccine passports you have a choice if you don't have one it's your choice. Social distancing and lock down are irrelevant at this time.

So putting on a mask and flashing a bit of paper ain't that much to ask to help us all safely move forward.

[big p]

3 minutes ago, frenchred said:

I don't see mask wearing as a restriction, just another piece of dress nowadays. Vaccine passports you have a choice if you don't have one it's your choice. Social distancing and lock down are irrelevant at this time.

So putting on a mask and flashing a bit of paper ain't that much to ask to help us all safely move forward.

That's not answering the question, is it. No need to as I already know the answer. 

[James54De]

6 hours ago, pillred said:

Where the hell did you get the figure of 600% it's 83%, still a higher figure than I thought admittedly but the stays are down from 6 days to less than 2 days on average. and the vast majority of people are having mild symptoms. You also have to factor in the fact that less than a quarter of S Africans have had any vaccinations at all as opposed to over 80% here.

No, it is not

[IAmNick]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Unsure I agree. I think there are a range of reasons and motives behind vaccine hesitancy.

I also stand by my view that a chunk of them albeit unsure how many, could be won over by eg Valneva.

But there are already non MRNA vaccines aren't there? As far as I know the AstraZenica one isn't. Neither is the Johnson and Johnson one - that's a standard viral vector I think.

Why would Valneva be any different? Sounds a bit like you've just picked one that isn't in the current plans to me.

It's the same people saying they're safe in each case. The individuals to be "won over" have no special knowledge of vaccines they could use to form a reasoned opinion - they're not experts.

Edited December 11, 2021 by IAmNick

[Steve Watts]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

  

It's not at all. Cancer is a great example of an awful disease that kills people - but rarely is what actually kills them.

Take a cancer of the digestive system. It stops you absorbing food, so you die of malnutrition (or weakness due to it).

Liver cancer can and will screw up the chemical balance in your body.

If you get shot and as a result have a heart attack and die, did being shot kill you?

If you get covid, develop pnuemonia, are greatly weakened and die of infection did covid kill you?

As I said, it's not as simple as you're making out.

The problem is you're looking for a very simple answer to an extremely complex question - which says a lot about how you view this whole thing.

Right now, I think in a couple of months we should have a much clearer picture the impact Omicron will have so that seems like a sensible amount of time to review things. That could then be to continue restrictions, step them up, or remove them.

Like I said, I don't enjoy the restrictions at all. I really don't - but I do understand why they're there.

This is spot on and a much better example than the one I was going to use. That was going to be AIDS. The most famous AIDS victim is undoubtedly Freddie Mercury. Ask 100 people what he died from and a very high percentage would say AIDS. And they'd be wrong as it was in fact pneumonia. The virus had just robbed his body of the ability to fight it. Just like with cancer as in your example. And covid as well.

It makes me laugh with the hit by a bus argument, because it's still possible that covid had a hand in the death as the mythical person hit by a bus may not have been strong enough to fight the injuries compared to someone who hadn't had the virus. The fact that it hinders the body's defence system when fighting any illness or injury is extremely valid, but is just conveniently ignored because Doctor Vicky Pollard of Facebook University said it is irrelevant!

The only real thing we need to accept is that certain people you can talk to until you're blue in the face. They don't want to be convinced and will not be convinced under any circumstances.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, big p said:

Of course it has, twisting the truth doesn't make you correct. 

 

So how many people actually died "of" covid and not "with" then? I would like to see proof not just your slanted opinion..

My numbers are from the ONS, and I've made clear what they refer to...

Let's see what your numbers are then, the floor is yours. 

[LoyalRed]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Like I said, I don't enjoy the restrictions at all. I really don't - but I do understand why they're there.

But how long will you put up with restrictions if they move to plan C or D etc ... at what point will you decide you no longer want to go along with it ?  I think that is the question. 

[LoyalRed]

48 minutes ago, frenchred said:

I will ask you again, what restrictions?

Is this your new normal now then ? 

[IAmNick]

2 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

But how long will you put up with restrictions if they move to plan C or D etc ... at what point will you decide you no longer want to go along with it ?  I think that is the question. 

But how can you decide that before you know both sides of the discussion?

Obviously if they said a nationwide lockdown would prevent one death, I'd be against it. If they said a nationwide lockdown would prevent 1 million, I'd be for it.

It seems to me that you (and some others) have already decided where you stand without having the information - which is why I'm saying it's situational. Picking one approach and refusing to budge from is it absolutely mad, and not how we live our lives in any other way either.,

[big p]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

My numbers are from the ONS, and I've made clear what they refer to...

Let's see what your numbers are then, the floor is yours. 

Not sure I said I would, perhaps you want to twist this aswell?

Post me a link where it states that 170k people have died "from" COVID and not "with".

[LoyalRed]

6 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

But how can you decide that before you know both sides of the discussion?

Obviously if they said a nationwide lockdown would prevent one death, I'd be against it. If they said a nationwide lockdown would prevent 1 million, I'd be for it.

It seems to me that you (and some others) have already decided where you stand without having the information - which is why I'm saying it's situational. Picking one approach and refusing to budge from is it absolutely mad, and not how we live our lives in any other way either.,

My concern is the decision or phases will get worse and people will either get used to it or happy to accept it going forward.  How can we live in a world where someone that doesn’t want a vaccine can only visit a shop ffs ?!  This is not where I want us heading as a country and it is not what I want for my kids going forward.