petehinton Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Heard he Got injured working with a PT over the summer, injured at the start of the season for the first few games but played through. Seeked external treatment for said injury rather than use our own medical team because of the history of last season, caused a bit of tension so might’ve spiralled from there! Somethings definitely happened for NP to go from praising his character and attitude to totally binned off in the space of 4 weeks 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 4 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said: We all know he has talent, but how many managers have now not played him, suggests a bit more to it, even Swansea who should of suited him he could not get in the team I think the bit more to it is the general decline of the attacking midfield role and the fact that changes to the game mean that, even when no 10s are used, the type of player is different. We’ve seen the same with players like Dele Alli, who has the world at his feet three years ago only for the game to evolve around him and he be left behind. Ultimately Palmer is a man out of time and out of fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 For all of the debate about him, he’s just not very good. Nonsense signing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said: LJ didn’t even want him here, so I’d be surprised if he ended up with him at Sunderland. Said a few times that he wanted all 3 Chelsea players to sign permanently and ‘would love’ to have Palmer with a proper pre season with him, or words to that effect 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 The issue with KP is purely down to style. I honestly believe if you put him in a team that played 4-4-1-1 with a solid all round striker infront of him you'd see a totally different player. I don't think it's a case of KP is a bad player, I think it's more a case of he's a very niche player who will not shine unless the tactics suit him, rather than him having to adapt to the tactics. I see him as a luxury player, he's the type of attacking midfielder /forward who would shine in the right system, the issue is we'll never be in that position to use that system and so when he's given a chance he struggles to find his place. As much as it sucks to think about it I think when he signed he would have fitted perfectly with the players we had around him had we then converted our playstyle and played him consistently, however, we didn't and we've moved away from that style with the sales of players making him surplus to requirements. What does concern me is us ending up selling him off cheap due to financial situation and the current playstyle only for a good club with the right playstyle to get an absolute steal. I do wonder if he'll end up going on a free as his contract runs out and then his the ground running elsewhere but at the same time he's a risky purchase if you pay any fee that we may ask for meaning he's stuck in a situation where we can't get the best out of him, we can't risk selling him too cheap only for him to go to a rival and start shining and his contact is ticking away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, bearded_red said: For all of the debate about him, he’s just not very good. Nonsense signing. Kind of have to agree. He has his moments and can deliver a killer pass, but ultimately he switches off, doesn't track back, loses the ball easily, rarely tackles, and doesn't seem to keep up with play for long periods of the game. The killer passes that impress come far too irregularly to justify either his wages or the money we paid for him. I honestly think if he hadn't had that bloody awful song we'd have let him go back to Chelsea. "Oh he's a fans' favourite, let's buy him".... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Spike said: I don't think it's a case of KP is a bad player, .....It's just that NO manager/coach can get him to perform. He's a bad professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, petehinton said: Said a few times that he wanted all 3 Chelsea players to sign permanently and ‘would love’ to have Palmer with a proper pre season with him, or words to that effect I heard (admittedly through a forum like this) that KP was an example of Ashton buying players then dumping them on LJ. That could be rubbish and you could be correct, but KP was dropped pretty soon after Afobe got injured and barely played again under LJ - in fact he was loaned to Swansea under LJs tenure, so LJ obviously didn’t rate him much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richyy66 Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Reckon he will end up at Millwall on loan. Back in London and reunited with his best mate Benik Afobe. A move that would suit both parties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: .....It's just that NO manager/coach can get him to perform. He's a bad professional. This is a fair point to a degree but again, he started off at Chelsea where he was never going to be played and until he came here he's only ever been loaned out. As a professional I'd say we only know what we've seen and I'm all fairness I don't think he's ever been given a prolonged run in a team that plays to his strengths. I think his previous loans were pretty much "we'll take him and see if he works for us" loans or which he wasn't used to his strengths and with us we've never had the right tactics /play style to compliment him. I think he permanent signing showed that we could see where his strengths are and we were building a team that would compliment him until we sold a few of them to generate big money and he became surplus. At 25 I think most clubs see him as a player who has /had so much potential but he wasn't given the time in the right surroundings to develop it and at this point he's "too old" to go on to fully reach that potential. In terms of his professionalism I'm still undecided. Many say he's lazy and looks uninterested but when I was younger the same was said about Andy Cole on his arrival, only for them to realise he was actually an incredibly perseptive player who only ran when he knew he'd get to the ball. Some argued that he should chase anyway just incase players panicked on the ball and he could make the most of it but soon changed their tune when they saw how quick he was compared to other strikers in his latter part of the match because he didn't chase himself tired needlessly. Looking at Kasey I can see a real talent and I can also see a frustrated man who is always being critiqued despite the fact noone ever plays him to his strengths but they expect him to change games. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 18 hours ago, Swede said: I guess I am in the minority here but I firmly believed the way forward was with KP45, with Afobe in tandem. While I would admit he's lost his way since, there is so much talent in abundance just simply going to waste. He has to look at himself but I also think it's up to the coaches to find the key to unlock the undoubted potential & get the best out of each & every player in the squad and that includes KP45. It’s a mental thing with him not physical . I have no doubt he’s a decent lad . However & it’s just my opinion , that being given a ridiculous wage at a young age has done for him. I don’t think he has the hunger to succeed . He’s a millionaire at 24 . Too much too young imo . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Mr Roper said: Not like JET at all in my opinion . Loved watching JET always trying to create something ,lots of skill ,also v strong .Ok he wasnt going to chase back but was always a presense on the pitch .Must have been a nightmare to play agaiinst . KP nowhere nr as good . My point was more about application than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said: I heard (admittedly through a forum like this) that KP was an example of Ashton buying players then dumping them on LJ. That could be rubbish and you could be correct, but KP was dropped pretty soon after Afobe got injured and barely played again under LJ - in fact he was loaned to Swansea under LJs tenure, so LJ obviously didn’t rate him much. Fact Check - untrue Fact - was loaned to Swansea under Holden When LJ says (paraphrased because I can’t recall the exact quote) at the end of KP’s loan - “give me a pre-season with Kasey and I’ll get him playing” I kinda take that to think that the manager rates him and wanted to sign him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Spike said: Looking at Kasey I can see a real talent and I can also see a frustrated man who is always being critiqued despite the fact noone ever plays him to his strengths but they expect him to change games. Surely it's all about playing to the team's strength, with everybody pulling together in the right direction. KP has been loaned out several times, Huddersfield and Blackburn come to mind, before he came here. Neither wanted to take him on, we did FFS, and then proceeded to loan him out! Also he never made any impression at Swansea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red7 Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 hours ago, richyy66 said: Reckon he will end up at Millwall on loan. Back in London and reunited with his best mate Benik Afobe. A move that would suit both parties. In the limited number of times we saw Palmer playing with Afobe, it seemed like Afobe was making runs that suited Palmer's range of passing. I don't think that Weimann, Wells and Martin make the same kind of runs as Afobe. Not saying that Palmer is blameless for some, indeed many, of his performances, but Afobe certainly seemed to be a good match for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Fact Check - untrue Fact - was loaned to Swansea under Holden When LJ says (paraphrased because I can’t recall the exact quote) at the end of KP’s loan - “give me a pre-season with Kasey and I’ll get him playing” I kinda take that to think that the manager rates him and wanted to sign him. Fair enough - I was going from (poor) memory. in that case let’s hope LJ still wants him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 23 hours ago, Henry said: Not on the bus. 23 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Don't think he's even waiting at the depot. “Love left me stranded at the station, and the last train’s gone by, what was once Holy Water, now tastes like bitter wine” - the public transport-inspired words of Jon Bon Jovi seem to ring true regarding KP ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 4 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said: I heard (admittedly through a forum like this) that KP was an example of Ashton buying players then dumping them on LJ. That could be rubbish and you could be correct, but KP was dropped pretty soon after Afobe got injured and barely played again under LJ - in fact he was loaned to Swansea under LJs tenure, so LJ obviously didn’t rate him much. Played 20 odd times after Afobe’s injury still, and was loaned out under Holden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 4 hours ago, bearded_red said: For all of the debate about him, he’s just not very good. Nonsense signing. Yep, it’s this. 4 hours ago, richyy66 said: Reckon he will end up at Millwall on loan. Back in London and reunited with his best mate Benik Afobe. A move that would suit both parties. Why on earth would Rowett want him? Unsuccessful loans at Derby, Blackburn, Swansea & us, no Championship club will now touch him, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said: Ultimately Palmer is a man out of time and out of fashion. Certainly ‘out of fashion’ my Bob who wears a suit made out of sofa material ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Red7 said: In the limited number of times we saw Palmer playing with Afobe, it seemed like Afobe was making runs that suited Palmer's range of passing. I don't think that Weimann, Wells and Martin make the same kind of runs as Afobe. Not saying that Palmer is blameless for some, indeed many, of his performances, but Afobe certainly seemed to be a good match for him. So why sign Wells for £5M when we had an agreement to get Afobe. IMO we were in the box seat for a player who knew the club with a point to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, Swede said: So why sign Wells for £5M when we had an agreement to get Afobe. IMO we were in the box seat for a player who knew the club with a point to prove. I’d forgotten we had an option to buy Afobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 punk Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 davefevs said palmer has 19 months of his contract left ! , i think pearson does not want to see him at training every day.so we try and push him out on loan paying most of his wages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Swede said: So why sign Wells for £5M when we had an agreement to get Afobe. IMO we were in the box seat for a player who knew the club with a point to prove. I suppose that , whilst not doubting BA’s ability, there were big questions over his availability and City could ill afford to be paying big money for a player who may not contribute to the team. Wells was playing very well and scoring freely. He was a ‘ name ‘ and who was against his signing at the time? Edited December 12, 2021 by Major Isewater 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 5 hours ago, steviestevieneville said: It’s a mental thing with him not physical . I have no doubt he’s a decent lad . However & it’s just my opinion , that being given a ridiculous wage at a young age has done for him. I don’t think he has the hunger to succeed . He’s a millionaire at 24 . Too much too young imo . What a ridiculous thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red7 Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Swede said: So why sign Wells for £5M when we had an agreement to get Afobe. IMO we were in the box seat for a player who knew the club with a point to prove. You're asking the wrong person. I'm just stating that, in the limited time Palmer and Afobe played together, they seemed a good match to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDarwall Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 For me, the issue is that KP is neither a conventional midfielder nor an orthodox striker. To play him you need to build the team around him & to date a succession of managers just haven't trusted him enough to do that consistently. There is clearly a decent player in there but as Messrs, Mowbray, Johnson, Holden, Cooper & now Pearson have all reached the same conclusion, you have to wonder if he'll ever do it at out level. Obviously this bit isn't his fault, but for a club in our financial position to be paying such a wage for someone who is about as close as I am to the 1st team, is scandalous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonRobin21 Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 My issue with Palmer is that he doesn't have enough attributes that are required to play in the attacking midfielder position in the championship. His biggest strength is his ability to play a through ball. However, what often gets overlooked is that he attempts to play those through balls due to his lack of mobility. Many teams are now moving away from systems that require an attacking midfielder, instead opting for a 4-3-3. Yet, those teams that do continue to play with an attacking midfielder, often deploy players who are very much the opposite mould to Palmer. An example would be Illias Chair at QPR, Small, tenacious, mobile and is able to drop into pockets all over the pitch. George Honeyman (Hull) would be another good example of this. Kasey Palmer is the complete opposite, he is often found in the central area, unable to take players on, closed down, and forced into playing a through ball that may or may not come off. All of the current top 4 teams in the division, are now looking to set up in a 4-3-3 due to the flexibility it offers them. Players can easily change their set up when in and out of possession. Palmer doesn't possess the flexibility required to play a multitude of positions and that will be his biggest downfall as a championship player. This is why I believe offloading him may be a trickier task than first thought, add in his wages and it's hard to see where he may end up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Certainly ‘out of fashion’ my Bob who wears a suit made out of sofa material ? Don’t judge me, I had a job interview looming and DFS had a sale on - what a rarity .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said: My issue with Palmer is that he doesn't have enough attributes that are required to play in the attacking midfielder position in the championship. His biggest strength is his ability to play a through ball. However, what often gets overlooked is that he attempts to play those through balls due to his lack of mobility. Many teams are now moving away from systems that require an attacking midfielder, instead opting for a 4-3-3. Yet, those teams that do continue to play with an attacking midfielder, often deploy players who are very much the opposite mould to Palmer. An example would be Illias Chair at QPR, Small, tenacious, mobile and is able to drop into pockets all over the pitch. George Honeyman (Hull) would be another good example of this. Kasey Palmer is the complete opposite, he is often found in the central area, unable to take players on, closed down, and forced into playing a through ball that may or may not come off. All of the current top 4 teams in the division, are now looking to set up in a 4-3-3 due to the flexibility it offers them. Players can easily change their set up when in and out of possession. Palmer doesn't possess the flexibility required to play a multitude of positions and that will be his biggest downfall as a championship player. This is why I believe offloading him may be a trickier task than first thought, add in his wages and it's hard to see where he may end up. Great post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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