Not going Saturday

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Should we be building more hospitals and investing in a better healthcare infrastructure? Quite possibly yes.

Does that make it “bollocks” to say that the NHS has a finite capacity and, as things stand, a rapid rise in Covid admissions threatens to overstretch capacity both in terms of beds and availability of staff? And if allowed to completely unravel, threatens treatment for emergencies (of any kind) and other illnesses? Absolutely not.

Certainly our beds-per-citizen ratio is well down on other comparable Western countries, so there’s a strong argument to say we should be investing further (and I would agree).

But the NHS will always have a finite capacity. And it wouldn’t be remotely economically viable to ever have enough redundancy built into the system to cope with a huge spike in demand at any given moment. There will always be a threshold where society has to do it’s bit to stop it bursting at the seams. Rightly or wrongly, Omicron may well require us to do our bit.

Agree.

[Kid in the Riot]

@Harry showing up at the turnstiles tomorrow to show his covid pass 

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Tell me if I've misunderstood this...but this is bollox. We built at the beginning of covid temporary covid hospitals throughout the country.

They all got dismantled and never used, as we were told there wasn't enough drs and nurses ' specialised' to deal with covid.

During the height of covid this year, my father was in Southmead with Brain cancer. The hospital and wards were empty when I visited. Empty... literally.

So it's not beds that are a problem...it's staff. 

Surely we should be building more hospitals and educating staff, and paying them a decent wage. That should be the foremost action, especially as it's been two bloody years now and not expected to stop.

Two friggin years...that we've just accepted to live with and not change.

How's your dad?

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Should we be building more hospitals and investing in a better healthcare infrastructure? Quite possibly yes.

Does that make it “bollocks” to say that the NHS has a finite capacity and, as things stand, a rapid rise in Covid admissions threatens to overstretch capacity both in terms of beds and availability of staff? And if allowed to completely unravel, threatens treatment for emergencies (of any kind) and other illnesses? Absolutely not.

Certainly our beds-per-citizen ratio is well down on other comparable Western countries, so there’s a strong argument to say we should be investing further (and I would agree).

But the NHS will always have a finite capacity. And it wouldn’t be remotely economically viable to ever have enough redundancy built into the system to cope with a huge spike in demand at any given moment. There will always be a threshold where society has to do it’s bit to stop it bursting at the seams. Rightly or wrongly, Omicron may well require us to do our bit.

We are as a population all getting older and living with illnesses, kept alive by medication.

Many have underlying health issues.

If we are to continue with this, then yes, we need to invest in more hospitals, more staff, that are paid well and not taken for granted and overworked.

One of the biggest investments is the pharmaceutical industry. An an industry that makes billions.

Keeping people alive that that kept other industries going...fast food, smoking, alcohol.

Then you get a virus come along and we are supposedly all screwed. How anyone can't see this is beyond me...it's totally about money.

If this was about health...the mandate would be clean eating, keeping fit and healthy, building our immune system up and looking after ourselves. 

But there is no money in that. The system makes you I'll, then trys to keep you alive with drugs

6 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

How's your dad?

He past away in the summer.

[Bristol Oil Services]

Just now, spudski said:

 

He past away in the summer.

Very sorry to hear that. 

[Bristol Rob]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

He past away in the summer.

Sorry for your loss.

[Rob k]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

To be fair, she doesn’t really like football. Just enjoys a day out, plenty of sweets and the chance to put her iPad on after 20 minutes and play some games. 
I don’t think Lodge Road or Cossham Street would be her bag. 

What more would they want on a sat afternoon  than listening to me moaning on about Bentley, Massengo, Baker, Kalas, Martin and Weiman for 90 mins

Ps - i see a lot of people have never done a U. Turn to please the kids 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Rob k

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Should we be building more hospitals and investing in a better healthcare infrastructure? Quite possibly yes.

Does that make it “bollocks” to say that the NHS has a finite capacity and, as things stand, a rapid rise in Covid admissions threatens to overstretch capacity both in terms of beds and availability of staff? And if allowed to completely unravel, threatens treatment for emergencies (of any kind) and other illnesses? Absolutely not.

Certainly our beds-per-citizen ratio is well down on other comparable Western countries, so there’s a strong argument to say we should be investing further (and I would agree).

But the NHS will always have a finite capacity. And it wouldn’t be remotely economically viable to ever have enough redundancy built into the system to cope with a huge spike in demand at any given moment. There will always be a threshold where society has to do it’s bit to stop it bursting at the seams. Rightly or wrongly, Omicron may well require us to do our bit.

Investment is in fact going on at this very moment, certainly in Gloucester and no doubt in many other places. It is bed availabilty in some cases but we could have a million empty beds without enough nurses/docs they are useless.

So we train up more docs/nurses then what, we have to be one of the highest pay`ers in the world to keep them here.

Then who pays? we do in the end, so maybe best investing in our own Med Care via private health insurance is the way to go? no idea on cost, prob a packet of fags a week?

 

 

[IAmNick]

I've decided not to go tomorrow as well.

I've been pretty ill this week with some (non covid) cold/flu thing which people wouldn't appreciate anyway, it's a lot of hassle, and I don't want to risk catching it right before Christmas - especially as it's my first decent stretch of time off work with my partner and kid in months and months.

I'll still watch it though (and probably clip the goals!) which is a nice backup.

[Edgy Red]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

We are as a population all getting older and living with illnesses, kept alive by medication.

Many have underlying health issues.

If we are to continue with this, then yes, we need to invest in more hospitals, more staff, that are paid well and not taken for granted and overworked.

One of the biggest investments is the pharmaceutical industry. An an industry that makes billions.

Keeping people alive that that kept other industries going...fast food, smoking, alcohol.

Then you get a virus come along and we are supposedly all screwed. How anyone can't see this is beyond me...it's totally about money.

If this was about health...the mandate would be clean eating, keeping fit and healthy, building our immune system up and looking after ourselves. 

But there is no money in that. The system makes you I'll, then trys to keep you alive with drugs

He past away in the summer.

Sorry for your loss Spudski and i agree entirely with your previous post.

We have become obsessed with trying to extend life via an array of medication but the answer is healthy eating and exercise etc. The life we live has to be about quality and not necessarily longevity.  My Dad developed Parkinsons and Dementia in his early 60's and (this is awful to say) the last 5 years of his life were prolonged for no great benefit.

I haven't got involved in the Covid debate on this forum but i believe the average age of death from it to date, is approximately 83. Now whilst all lives are precious we have to put that in context and realise that none of us are immortal. If i reach the age of 83 having lived a decent quality of life (without cancer, dementia, heart disease) then i'd be pretty content.

Anyway, i don't want to spark any kind of Covid confrontation because this forum has been overflowing with it recently. I am double jabbed, with my booster booked shortly but as Spudski intimated in his post, i do feel that we need to look at the bigger picture.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

During the height of covid this year, my father was in Southmead with Brain cancer. The hospital and wards were empty when I visited. Empty... literally.

The reason for so many empty beds was that everything elective was stopped....

[underover]

20 minutes ago, gl2 said:

Investment is in fact going on at this very moment, certainly in Gloucester and no doubt in many other places. It is bed availabilty in some cases but we could have a million empty beds without enough nurses/docs they are useless.

So we train up more docs/nurses then what, we have to be one of the highest pay`ers in the world to keep them here.

Then who pays? we do in the end, so maybe best investing in our own Med Care via private health insurance is the way to go? no idea on cost, prob a packet of fags a week?

 

 

obviously each country’s system is different but my medication that I’ll be on for life costs me the prescription fee here, in the USA it costs my friends $300ish per prescription and they have medical insurance, I’m not sure I could ever back that, worth noting the USA also spends about double per capita on health care than us, France, Netherlands etc (all who have different systems).
We don’t have to be the highest payers in the world if we can provide quality of life, work life balance etc that you get when you have more doctors & nurses, of course it’s very difficult to train as either of those especially a doctor so it’s much easier said than done, but making it harder for people to come over and be a nurse (it doesn’t really apply to doctors the visa rules makes that easier) probably isn’t going to help, mind you I’m aware that’s flying a bit close to the line on politics which I don’t really want to spend my evening whinging about so I’ll shut up now! 

[Ska Junkie]

On 15/12/2021 at 22:17, CyderInACan said:

I’ve decided that it’s too close to Christmas to  risk going on Saturday and potentially ruin our normal family Christmas. Having had Covid in late September/early October I’m not really prepared to take the risk of a double whammy on my body in such a short period of time. 

Will watch on RobinsTV and certainly hope for a home win. 
 

I can’t be the only one thinking that attending on Saturday is a potential fool’s errand?
 

 

Same, positive PCR 17/11 so I'm not taking any risks either. I'll find it on IPTV instead.

[Waconda]

NFL postponing 3 games over COVID surge | TheHill

 

[spudski]

21 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

Sorry for your loss Spudski and i agree entirely with your previous post.

We have become obsessed with trying to extend life via an array of medication but the answer is healthy eating and exercise etc. The life we live has to be about quality and not necessarily longevity.  My Dad developed Parkinsons and Dementia in his early 60's and (this is awful to say) the last 5 years of his life were prolonged for no great benefit.

I haven't got involved in the Covid debate on this forum but i believe the average age of death from it to date, is approximately 83. Now whilst all lives are precious we have to put that in context and realise that none of us are immortal. If i reach the age of 83 having lived a decent quality of life (without cancer, dementia, heart disease) then i'd be pretty content.

Anyway, i don't want to spark any kind of Covid confrontation because this forum has been overflowing with it recently. I am double jabbed, with my booster booked shortly but as Spudski intimated in his post, i do feel that we need to look at the bigger picture.

I totally agree with your sentiments. 

[City Rocker]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Tell me if I've misunderstood this...but this is bollox. We built at the beginning of covid temporary covid hospitals throughout the country.

They all got dismantled and never used, as we were told there wasn't enough drs and nurses ' specialised' to deal with covid.

During the height of covid this year, my father was in Southmead with Brain cancer. The hospital and wards were empty when I visited. Empty... literally.

So it's not beds that are a problem...it's staff. 

Surely we should be building more hospitals and educating staff, and paying them a decent wage. That should be the foremost action, especially as it's been two bloody years now and not expected to stop.

Two friggin years...that we've just accepted to live with and not change.

No, what we clearly should be doing is forming some kind of union with our fellow European nations, enabling free movement so that we have a chance of recruiting enough skilled and qualified staff to the NHS. And while we're at it, maybe we could have a go at frictionless trade?!

[Waconda]

6 minutes ago, City Rocker said:

No, what we clearly should be doing is forming some kind of union with our fellow European nations, enabling free movement so that we have a chance of recruiting enough skilled and qualified staff to the NHS. And while we're at it, maybe we could have a go at frictionless trade?!

Stop talking sense.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Same, positive PCR 17/11 so I'm not taking any risks either. I'll find it on IPTV instead.

Forgive me for asking, and I totally appreciate your decision, but. If you had Covid on 17th November, ie a month ago, I can’t see how you would be at any risk whatsoever of catching it again. I’m therefore incredibly intrigued as to how you reach your decision. 
As I say, this is a genuine question and I appreciate your decision, so I’m not trying to be awkward or anything, just interested as to how the conclusion has been drawn. 

[City Rocker]

I think it worth mentioning that,  whilst I renewed my season ticket in the summer, I haven't yet been to a single City game this season. Reason being I fear infecting seriously ill elderly relatives.

So to be clear, I haven't attended a single football match since March 2020. Anyone else spunking away £350+ this year, or is it just me? 

[Bannerman]

2 minutes ago, City Rocker said:

I think it worth mentioning that,  whilst I renewed my season ticket in the summer, I haven't yet been to a single City game this season. Reason being I fear infecting seriously ill elderly relatives.

So to be clear, I haven't attended a single football match since March 2020. Anyone else spunking away £350+ this year, or is it just me? 

Unfortunately, Fear is the key. Live your life as normal as you can, this may go on for awhile yet.

[Ska Junkie]

24 minutes ago, Harry said:

Forgive me for asking, and I totally appreciate your decision, but. If you had Covid on 17th November, ie a month ago, I can’t see how you would be at any risk whatsoever of catching it again. I’m therefore incredibly intrigued as to how you reach your decision. 
As I say, this is a genuine question and I appreciate your decision, so I’m not trying to be awkward or anything, just interested as to how the conclusion has been drawn. 

A fair question Harry.

I've been left with breathlessness, which is relatively common. even though I've been told I am less susceptible than others due to having it recently, I still feel pretty weak so just don't want to take the risk of getting it again, or anything else, while not being myself.

One of my work colleagues, caught it again just 28 days after his first positive PCR. Given we work in NHS wards (covid included) we know the risks we have to take but him getting it again so quickly has made me understandably sceptical.

A personal choice I totally admit and against all the advice I have been given but not wanting to be poorly again while feeling under the weather is my main concern, particularly at this time of the year.

The club don't miss out as my SC is paid for BTW. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

I've decided not to go tomorrow as well.

I've been pretty ill this week with some (non covid) cold/flu thing which people wouldn't appreciate anyway, it's a lot of hassle, and I don't want to risk catching it right before Christmas - especially as it's my first decent stretch of time off work with my partner and kid in months and months.

I'll still watch it though (and probably clip the goals!) which is a nice backup.

I hate the fact people now feel the need to state it’s “not/non covid” when they announce they don’t feel well - this is getting ridiculous ... the stats just don’t support this need for hysteria ... 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I hate the fact people now feel the need to state it’s “not/non covid” when they announce they don’t feel well - this is getting ridiculous ... the stats just don’t support this need for hysteria ... 

An excess death count of circa 148k people in a little over 18 months. Is that the "hysteria" that you are referring to? 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

An excess death count of circa 148k people in a little over 18 months. Is that the "hysteria" that you are referring to? 

That figure has been debated long and hard elsewhere - so I’d refer you to that discussion, although I’d highlight once again that someone I know died from being electrocuted at work and his death was put down as a Covid death because he’d tested positive a month before his untimely death.

Don’t you think there is now hysteria over this omicron variant? Do you think it is warranted? Reports today suggested there were 16 people in hospital in the UK with omicron and there has been one death - a guy in his seventies who was unvaccinated and died ‘with’ not ‘from’ omicron - South Africa (from where the omicron variant apparently originated) has now reported they are ‘over the peak’ and the number of deaths from omicron over there? Zero ... 

A guy I work with, and his wife, are both isolating at home with omicron right now - they both have underlying health issues, however, he sent me a text saying he ‘feels a bit under the weather but he’s had worse colds’ - I would never underestimate or belittle anyone’s experiences during this pandemic, but I can only draw my own conclusions from the personal experiences I go through and to which I am exposed ... and in many ways, ‘hysteria’ is an appropriate word to sum up some things right now ... I totally get, and respect, that you may feel different and that’s obviously perfectly fine - have a great weekend

[Bannerman]

20 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

An excess death count of circa 148k people in a little over 18 months. Is that the "hysteria" that you are referring to? 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom-of-information-responses-from-the-mhra-week-commencing-1-july-2021/freedom-of-information-request-on-reg-174-for-pfizer-covid-19-mrna-vaccine-foi-21-611?fbclid=IwAR18-qlT1m46b3_pxh-kerCtsfetVdOoQS_Iq_BKlu4hZqt_cyXyX7YR8e0
 

this added to early deaths, and will make you think twice (three) times about having the jab

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

A fair question Harry.

I've been left with breathlessness, which is relatively common. even though I've been told I am less susceptible than others due to having it recently, I still feel pretty weak so just don't want to take the risk of getting it again, or anything else, while not being myself.

One of my work colleagues, caught it again just 28 days after his first positive PCR. Given we work in NHS wards (covid included) we know the risks we have to take but him getting it again so quickly has made me understandably sceptical.

A personal choice I totally admit and against all the advice I have been given but not wanting to be poorly again while feeling under the weather is my main concern, particularly at this time of the year.

The club don't miss out as my SC is paid for BTW. 

A fair answer. Thank you. 
And I hope you feel better soon.

[City Cat]

1 hour ago, City Rocker said:

I think it worth mentioning that,  whilst I renewed my season ticket in the summer, I haven't yet been to a single City game this season. Reason being I fear infecting seriously ill elderly relatives.

So to be clear, I haven't attended a single football match since March 2020. Anyone else spunking away £350+ this year, or is it just me? 

Ditto mate, last home game in March 2020 for me too. Last away game Millwall a week or so earlier. Renewed SC with the belief that we might somehow be out of this but I can't risk infecting loved ones.....

[Mr Popodopolous]

I suppose this might help to explain why they are so jumpy about Omicron- let alone NHS staff self-isolating which would only add to the stretched resources.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/16/nhs-hospitals-in-england-94-full-before-start-of-omicron-surge

However we did a generation ago have a lot more NHS beds. Fact. I posted it elsewhere but anyway about 299,000 in late 1980s, early 1990s. Now we don't- we have about 131,000. I'll try to get the exact figures but it's more than halved.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers

Clearly there are many factors to balance but within reason, the more beds you have the more headroom you have. Although Germany with 25k reportedly anyway ICU beds seem to have trouble staffing them- can't win! A report about a nursing shortage there, which reduces the use of that high bed supply. Back to NHS.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/hospital-beds

Then you have to factor in the population to bed ratio- as our population grew, our beds fell- which leaves yet less margin for error in the event of a major medical emergency.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[RED4LIFE]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

We are as a population all getting older and living with illnesses, kept alive by medication.

Many have underlying health issues.

If we are to continue with this, then yes, we need to invest in more hospitals, more staff, that are paid well and not taken for granted and overworked.

One of the biggest investments is the pharmaceutical industry. An an industry that makes billions.

Keeping people alive that that kept other industries going...fast food, smoking, alcohol.

Then you get a virus come along and we are supposedly all screwed. How anyone can't see this is beyond me...it's totally about money.

If this was about health...the mandate would be clean eating, keeping fit and healthy, building our immune system up and looking after ourselves. 

But there is no money in that. The system makes you I'll, then trys to keep you alive with drugs

He past away in the summer.

Spudski, condolences to you about your dad.

With regards to the virus, my decision to originally be double-jabbed and then have a booster has been based on 2 things. Firstly, the mortality rate since people have received a vaccine has dropped dramatically in comparison to the first and second wave of infections, prior to the vaccine rollout. Even now, with record infections, this is still the case. To me, the vaccines are working.

Secondly, I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror every day and know that I did everything possible to try and stop me spreading it to some poor soul who may die from it. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, City Rocker said:

No, what we clearly should be doing is forming some kind of union with our fellow European nations, enabling free movement so that we have a chance of recruiting enough skilled and qualified staff to the NHS. And while we're at it, maybe we could have a go at frictionless trade?!

That is a very interesting proposition.

Just think, if we were to enable trained medical staff from Europe to come and work in the UK with no restrictions, it would surely help the current labour shortage in the NHS.

Perhaps we could even extend this offer to HGV drivers and other areas in which we are suffering a labour shortage; fruit and vegetable workers, nursing auxiliary staff, for instance.

I wonder if anybody in Government has actually thought of that and, if so, what the response of our European friends might be.

I wonder what the response of the anglophone, pro-Brexit French President might be were we to propose a simple, no tariff trade and labour agreement.

Finally, I wonder how many of the tens of thousands of people who crossed the Channel in flimsy dinghies this year are suitably trained and qualified to assist our understaffed NHS, and would be more than willing to do so, but are not allowed to work (legally) so ‘disappear’ and end up working ( clandestinely, thus illegally) on building sites, in sweat shops, nail bars or, shamefully, in underground brothels.