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Should Saturdays match be played?


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Should Saturdays match be played?  

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602million of the Horizon 2020 funding has so far been spent on Covid related science.

The problem is that despite it still being a pot of money UK scientists cam still (technically) access, the reality is that since Brexit that route is far more challenging as the EU and the UK are still formalising how that will work, leaving a lot of research in limbo, or with the UK only having co-author status, rather than a primary status.

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30 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Citing a Covid nutter now? Have a day off. Jesus

I would be less harsh and say it's motivated reasoning, choosing to believe one source against the vast amount of evidence to the contrary because it fits with your preconceived view.

We are all prone to it which is why I research the primary reputable sources to try to make a rational, informed decision rather than an emotional one.

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14 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Wait, where do you think the government gets its money from?

They literally do have a bottom-less pit filled with money they can dip into at will and never have to pay back. Of course it'd be mad to do so blindly for other reasons, but they (in theory) could do if they wanted to.

Do they have a bottomless pit though?  

All us taxpayers are obviously the pit and speaking for myself, my pockets are far from bottomless!

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8 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Back on topic

Will/should the game go ahead?

I’d say it will do as there haven’t been any reports of covid for either club as far as I’m aware and I’d imagine Huddersfield will be travelling down today.

I think the game should go ahead, the club will make the stadium as safe as it can be then it comes down to personal responsibility and circumstances for individuals as to whether they are willing to accept the risk of attending. 

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33 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The answers to your questions are in the second link I provided above. You can follow through to the randomised controlled trials if you want clinical evidence from a reputable source.

I read the NIH version you linked. The trials were abruptly halted - why? Political decision. That’s why. 

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

I read the NIH version you linked. The trials were abruptly halted - why? Political decision. That’s why. 

I see. I won't start a tutorial on randomised controlled trials given your position so let's leave it at the saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Extraordinary_claims_require_extraordinary_evidence

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

These professionals, who know more than anyone on this forum, are succinctly summarised by Dr Peter McCollough, not only in his testimony to the US Senate, but you’ll find a fascinating 3 hour insight on Joe Rogan’s podcast last week. 

 

28 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Ha ha. I fully expected this sort of reply. 
McCoullough is very much more of an expert than you or I, and has certainly treated more covid patients than you or I. 
But of course, someone of such vast experience in this field and first hand experience of treating covid, who challenges the accepted narrative is “discredited” and “a nutter”. 

 

I can well understand how frustrating it must be for you, when people with limited or even no medical knowledge mock your experience in this field. 

You are not alone, however, for there are several other experts who would seem to support your views:

The world-renowned cardiologist, Dr. Aseem Malhotra, Professor of Evidence Based Medicine at the Bahiana School of Medicine and Public Health in Salvador, Brazil and Cardiology MSc examiner at the University of Hertfordshire, U.K. He has even 'authored' a book, The 21-Day Immunity Plan, showing how to reduce vulnerability to disease, including COVID-19. 

Dr. Steven Gundry, a former cardiac surgeon, who has spent the last ten years retired from medicine and instead has spent his time writing diet books. Nevertheless, the renowned (ex) cardiac surgeon has made numerous pseudoscientific and false claims since he left the medical profession, and now earns a living  selling unproven wellness treatments and recommending the Quercetin food supplements recommended in the above-mentioned immunity plan. 

Illegitimi non carborundum!

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1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Wait, where do you think the government gets its money from?

They literally do have a bottom-less pit filled with money they can dip into at will and never have to pay back. Of course it'd be mad to do so blindly for other reasons, but they (in theory) could do if they wanted to.

Go on, from where does Government get it's money?

That you think it bottomless, try being Turkish this week, or most Central African states most weeks.

Theoretically most things are possible but money lending has never, ever been theoretical - it comes with a real world, real time price tag as those in debt understand.

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13 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

I can well understand how frustrating it must be for you, when people with limited or even no medical knowledge mock your experience in this field. 

You are not alone, however, for there are several other experts who would seem to support your views:

The world-renowned cardiologist, Dr. Aseem Malhotra, Professor of Evidence Based Medicine at the Bahiana School of Medicine and Public Health in Salvador, Brazil and Cardiology MSc examiner at the University of Hertfordshire, U.K. He has even 'authored' a book, The 21-Day Immunity Plan, showing how to reduce vulnerability to disease, including COVID-19. 

Dr. Steven Gundry, a former cardiac surgeon, who has spent the last ten years retired from medicine and instead has spent his time writing diet books. Nevertheless, the renowned (ex) cardiac surgeon has made numerous pseudoscientific and false claims since he left the medical profession, and now earns a living  selling unproven wellness treatments and recommending the Quercetin food supplements recommended in the above-mentioned immunity plan. 

Illegitimi non carborundum!

It’s not just those 2 Phil, but that’s great, thanks for the support. Genuinely. 
There are hundreds of people much more qualified than anyone on this forum who have challenged the status quo and have been subject to ridicule. These people are quite literally putting their reputation or indeed jobs on the line. Many have been discredited, struck off, sacked, ridiculed, silenced etc. 
I’m am absolutely certain that there are thousands more who would speak out but do not do so for fear of the same treatment. 
And that’s an unqualified success in the eyes of those powerful people who want them to keep schtum. 

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

So you're now resorting to citing an unemployed and discredited cardiologist hosted by a shock-jock UFC commentating comedian. Strange you neglect to reference what both Senate and the US medical profession had to say about McCollough.

Look forward to what evidence you'll dredge up next - Chris Kamara having David Icke explain how purple tracksuits repel the virus?

What a bizarre existence you enjoy.

Funny you mention David Icke.  The man's a fruitcake, and is arguably dangerous in some of the stuff he says.  The fact however that some of what he said back in March/April 2020 (at a point when there was less than 100 covid deaths in the UK), seems to be more accurate than what government ministers were saying just a few weeks ago which they then go back on, shows why there is so much distrust in politicians! 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

Ha ha. I fully expected this sort of reply. 
McCoullough is very much more of an expert than you or I, and has certainly treated more covid patients than you or I. 
But of course, someone of such vast experience in this field and first hand experience of treating covid, who challenges the accepted narrative is “discredited” and “a nutter”. 

 

He hasn't practiced for some time, having been dispensed with by his associated hospital for conduct contrary to espoused medical ethics. As to being more of an expert, that depends on the subject. Fictional, delusional BS - he's top of his class in that.

As a cardiologist I doubt very much he had much dealing to Covid patients, that's how hospitals work, each to their own specialism.

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54 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

I’d say it will do as there haven’t been any reports of covid for either club as far as I’m aware and I’d imagine Huddersfield will be travelling down today.

I think the game should go ahead, the club will make the stadium as safe as it can be then it comes down to personal responsibility and circumstances for individuals as to whether they are willing to accept the risk of attending. 

Agreed, shame there cannot be a bit of common sense from the authorities and allow the game to be streamed for those who feel they cannot attend. 

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s not just those 2 Phil, but that’s great, thanks for the support. Genuinely. 
There are hundreds of people much more qualified than anyone on this forum who have challenged the status quo and have been subject to ridicule. These people are quite literally putting their reputation or indeed jobs on the line. Many have been discredited, struck off, sacked, ridiculed, silenced etc. 
I’m am absolutely certain that there are thousands more who would speak out but do not do so for fear of the same treatment. 
And that’s an unqualified success in the eyes of those powerful people who want them to keep schtum. 

Oh Dear, Harry.

I really don't know how to say this, and Please do not be offended, but I was actually being sarcastic; taking the piss, if you like.

The two so-called experts to whom I referred are not experts at all, at least not in the field of COVID and preventative medecine therefor.

They may (or may not) have been experts in their own field, although this is disputed, but they are no more qualified than you or me to propose 'cures' for COVID.  

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6 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think the words “passed away after contracting covid-19” tells us all we need to know doesn’t it?

get your drift sarge but was wondering if he had underlying probs as if he has had two jabs and a booster and was in good health it sure puts the Sh1ts up me as only a year younger than the Old Cornishman

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1 minute ago, oldstandrobin said:

get your drift sarge but was wondering if he had underlying probs as if he has had two jabs and a booster and was in good health it sure puts the Sh1ts up me as only a year younger than the Old Cornishman

Isn't it a crazy high start like 30% of people in the UK have underlying problems? So not sure really why it's relevant. Would they of died without COVID? No, not so soon. Therefore it doesn't matter, it still ended their life.

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15 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Oh Dear, Harry.

I really don't know how to say this, and Please do not be offended, but I was actually being sarcastic; taking the piss, if you like.

The two so-called experts to whom I referred are not experts at all, at least not in the field of COVID and preventative medecine therefor.

They may (or may not) have been experts in their own field, although this is disputed, but they are no more qualified than you or me to propose 'cures' for COVID.  

Ooohh….what a fantastic ruse. You must be pissing your sweet little French knickers right now, yeah? 
Truth is, whether those you mentioned (and I must admit, I’d never heard of Gundry before), are experts or not, there are hundreds out there who have questioned the status quo. So you can laugh all you like (might be the stench of onions) but there are many experts who know a helluva lot more than anyone on here who have challenged the narrative and been shut down. 

27 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

He hasn't practiced for some time, having been dispensed with by his associated hospital for conduct contrary to espoused medical ethics. As to being more of an expert, that depends on the subject. Fictional, delusional BS - he's top of his class in that.

As a cardiologist I doubt very much he had much dealing to Covid patients, that's how hospitals work, each to their own specialism.

So you deny that he’s vastly more qualified that you on the subject? 

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4 hours ago, hollydog said:

Need to be careful with that argument - (Scottish) North Sea Oil was the only thing that kept the Thatcher government solvent in the 80’s. 

 As they have been part of the UK for at least 300 years I'm not sure why they should think it was THEIR oil. It was not Scottish oil it was British oil.

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18 minutes ago, Harry said:

So you deny that he’s vastly more qualified that you on the subject? 

Which subject? BS for sure he is.

Thankfully, despite all his supposed medical expertise, he's no longer working.

Now if only there was a vaccine that helped folks differentiate fact from fiction.....

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58 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Go on, from where does Government get it's money?

That you think it bottomless, try being Turkish this week, or most Central African states most weeks.

Theoretically most things are possible but money lending has never, ever been theoretical - it comes with a real world, real time price tag as those in debt understand.

The BoE, as you know - which has to create and give it as much money as it asks for, whenever it asks for it.

 

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53 minutes ago, bbew said:

Funny you mention David Icke.  The man's a fruitcake, and is arguably dangerous in some of the stuff he says.  The fact however that some of what he said back in March/April 2020 (at a point when there was less than 100 covid deaths in the UK), seems to be more accurate than what government ministers were saying just a few weeks ago which they then go back on, shows why there is so much distrust in politicians! 

Remind, what did the fruitcake day?

If to form it'll be unfalsifiable claptrap (it's the principle of falsifiablity that's key, as Popper so thoroughly explored.)

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3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Ooohh….what a fantastic ruse. You must be pissing your sweet little French knickers right now, yeah? 
Truth is, whether those you mentioned (and I must admit, I’d never heard of Gundry before), are experts or not, there are hundreds out there who have questioned the status quo. So you can laugh all you like (might be the stench of onions) but there are many experts who know a helluva lot more than anyone on here who have challenged the narrative and been shut down. 

I did ask that you not be offended, but I can see from your response that you are.

Not to worry, C'est la Vie, as the girls over here say when they wet their culottes - that's knickers in French.

The point of my post, however, was not to mock you or to laugh at you, per se, but to highlight simply that there are, unfortunately, a large number of quack, so-called experts out there who will use whatever media outlet is available to them in order to publicise their medical pseudo-expertise, often to sell their quack products to a gullible public. 

Equally unfortunately, however, there are a number of media outlets and presenters who are only too happy to welcome these 'experts' on to their shows because, guess what: it improves their ratings.

In normal circumstances, this wouldn't be a problem and, of course, we all had a good laugh at David Icke some years ago when he appeared on Wogan (Well, most of us) and ridiculed his nonsense.

In so far as it concerns COVID, however, this is no laughing matter, and the two 'experts' I quoted were actually using the GB News station to promote an alternative cure for COVID.

Now people will have their own views about GB News, but they provided a platform for a discredited cardiologist - a cardiologist, I repeat, and not a COVID expert - to suggest that their proposed treatment (essentially a special diet containing Quercetin food supplements) was an effective alternative to vaccination, a treatment that itself has been discredited. 

We all know that, for whatever reason, a lot of people (too many, in my opinion) are declining to be vaccinated, and I just think it is dangerous for media outlets to allow influential people, no matter what their field of expertise (if, indeed, they have any), to try and persuade members of the public to ignore real expert medical advice and to try and dissuade them from getting vaccinated, often by scaremongering. 

 

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27 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Which subject? BS for sure he is.

Thankfully, despite all his supposed medical expertise, he's no longer working.

Now if only there was a vaccine that helped folks differentiate fact from fiction.....

I’ll take that as a yes then. He does know more about this subject than you. 
It’s ok, don’t worry. I know it’s a bit of a shock that there are people who know more about a subject than you, it doesn’t make you in any way inferior. I hope you manage to get over it. 

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I see the PL has arranged a meeting of managers for Monday to discuss the position. No word from the EFL yet, though they are not renowned for being quick off the mark.

I also now discover that vaccination rates in the other major European leagues is very high (over 90%, Serie A being 98%). Quite what that says about our leagues I don't know frankly.

Edited by chinapig
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17 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I see the PL has arranged a meeting of managers for Monday to discuss the position. No word from the EFL yet, though they are not renowned for being quick off the mark.

I also now discover that vaccination rates in the other major European leagues is very high (over 90%, Serie A being 98%). Quite what that says about our leagues I don't know frankly.

Some very well educated and privileged posters on here a few pages back would have you think that our footballers are less intelligent and from a more unprivileged background than those in Europe. 🤣🤣

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35 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The BoE, as you know - which has to create and give it as much money as it asks for, whenever it asks for it.

 

Oh dear. 

Do you think the Old Lady has a bottomless pit in Threadneedle Street?  As it happens the BoE's function is two fold : regulatory policy and approval for issuance of banknotes, though quite a few folks issue those.

BoE doesn't 'create' money, though through issuance of notes may regulate it's worth. 

The money the Government spends beyond that recovered by The Treasury is borrowed, in exactly the same way you or I might borrow money. It attracts interest premiums and must, ultimately, be repaid. Default means lenders may not lend again in future 

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