Lee Johnson's man management

[RobintheRed Red]

1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

So please tell me who HAS achieved anything at Championship level then o wise one - I must be stupid because I can’t remember anyone achieving anything at this level since AD. 
No major silverware
No Premiership promotion

…… no change there then!!!!

Are you forgetting the boring three to four years of sideways and backwards football he dished up and the fifty odd crap players he brought in under the sugar daddy when it would have been easier to give steve cotterell the three players he needed to strengthen the struggling championship squad at that time we are still bearing the fruits of that fifty odd dross now and Nige is struggling to get rid of  them you must have missed the Best football played in recent years in league one which the gobster couldn't wait to rip apart .

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

41 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Are you forgetting the boring three to four years of sideways and backwards football he dished up and the fifty odd crap players he brought in under the sugar daddy when it would have been easier to give steve cotterell the three players he needed to strengthen the struggling championship squad at that time we are still bearing the fruits of that fifty odd dross now and Nige is struggling to get rid of  them you must have missed the Best football played in recent years in league one which the gobster couldn't wait to rip apart .

 

So that’s nobody then….

[JoeAman08]

It was time for LJ to go but he was a success for his time here. He inherited a relegation battle and yes he was backed to stay up but he did. We say how good Flint and Bryan were but they were going to get relegated their first season in the league. Johnson enhanced their games. He moved Reid to a forward position(stumbled upon or not he made the call to use him when many others would not). 
 

Again on player development Brownhill was lost his first 4-5 months at city. He started the opening match against Wigan I believe and looked awful. By Boxing Day he was borderline running games from midfield. He was the one that wanted Webster if Flint were to go. He had a clear idea of what he wanted and how to use him. 
 

We can beat him with the 50 players and however many millions stick but can’t we see a lot of that was Ashton now? The szmodics and Palmer thing seems a prime example. Szmodics felt like a LJ signing. Palmer an Ashton one. Not that either are brilliant but think many felt szmodics was a better fit for this club. He left first because he had interest and we wouldn’t lose money on him. 
 

Again, it was time for him to go. He needed a recharge for sure. I’ll go out on the limb though and say if he were to come now from Sunderland, having not been here before, I think he’d get more from this squad than Pearson is. All the mess included. And I absolutely despised LJ by the end. 

[Redland]

On 16/12/2021 at 14:35, Bristol Rob said:

What evidence is there to support this?

Genuinely interested.

Neil Warnock.

[RobintheRed Red]

15 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

So that’s nobody then….

Eh? They love the little dick at Sunderland check their fans forum

[bcfcredandwhite]

1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Eh? They love the little dick at Sunderland check their fans forum

Still nobody. 

[Ron W]

On 17/12/2021 at 06:13, spudski said:

Look at the way NP interviews...it's painful. Constantly checking in his mind before he speaks, knowing every word can and will be used against him in needed. You just be 'you' anymore. You have to conform. 

Sorry Spudski, you must be talking about a different Nigel Pearson to the one in this video.

Also in regards Lee Johnson more generally - what is the secret that Mark Robins, Mark Warburton, Scott Parker, Marco Silva have been told that he hasn't? Why can they manage sustained spells of success when he enjoyed good spells alongside long losing streaks (on both counts coincidentally much like Johnson Snr, who was managing long before the era of "wokeness").

Are they all secret members of Extinction Rebellion?

I agree with you LJ did a decent enough job for us by and large but I don't understand your defence of him in particular in the current era - when as far as I'm aware every manager has a dressing room full of modern-day players to deal with as well.

Edited December 18, 2021 by RonWalker

[MarcusX]

19 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Are you forgetting the boring three to four years of sideways and backwards football he dished up and the fifty odd crap players he brought in under the sugar daddy when it would have been easier to give steve cotterell the three players he needed to strengthen the struggling championship squad at that time we are still bearing the fruits of that fifty odd dross now and Nige is struggling to get rid of  them you must have missed the Best football played in recent years in league one which the gobster couldn't wait to rip apart .

 

Considering it was done at the level above, the football Johnson had us playing for a couple of seasons was some of the best I’ve seen us play. We went toe to toe with United AND City. We didn’t hide from them at all and played football. Neutrals all over the place were very complimentary of us - then someone ripped his team apart.

I think people forget we were usually in and around the top 6, albeit he lacked the consistency to get us over the line 

[MarcusX]

16 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

Sorry Spudski, you must be talking about a different Nigel Pearson to the one in this video.

Also in regards Lee Johnson more generally - what is the secret that Mark Robins, Mark Warburton, Scott Parker, Marco Silva have been told that he hasn't? Why can they manage sustained spells of success when he enjoyed good spells alongside long losing streaks (on both counts coincidentally much like Johnson Snr, who was managing long before the era of "wokeness").

Are they all secret members of Extinction Rebellion?

I agree with you LJ did a decent enough job for us by and large but I don't understand your defence of him in particular in the current era - when as far as I'm aware every manager has a dressing room full of modern-day players to deal with as well.

What “era of wokeness”? Second time I’ve heard that description on here today and don’t understand it’s relevance

[Ron W]

6 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

What “era of wokeness”? Second time I’ve heard that description on here today and don’t understand it’s relevance

Spudski's era of wokeness!

[mozo]

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

[Selred]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

Some of the football under LJ come the final 12-14 months wasn’t better than what we have now.

[RobintheRed Red]

5 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Considering it was done at the level above, the football Johnson had us playing for a couple of seasons was some of the best I’ve seen us play. We went toe to toe with United AND City. We didn’t hide from them at all and played football. Neutrals all over the place were very complimentary of us - then someone ripped his team apart.

I think people forget we were usually in and around the top 6, albeit he lacked the consistency to get us over the line 

Then why did the sugar daddy sack him if he was so good ? Listen to frankie fielding interview he sa8d good coach but man management was shit 

[Ron W]

13 hours ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

It's amazing what you can do with investment and quality players!

[1960maaan]

18 hours ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

That's the word and ....
It's possible Holden would have had us in a better position, and Cotts and so on. Johnson got sacked because we fell apart late on in every season, AND later on the football was as bad as we are watching now.

His last season, 8 defeats and 2 draws in his last 11 games. OK , there is a possibility we could be better, but a likelihood we would be even worse.

[TomThumb84]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

That's the word and ....
It's possible Holden would have had us in a better position, and Cotts and so on. Johnson got sacked because we fell apart late on in every season, AND later on the football was as bad as we are watching now.

His last season, 8 defeats and 2 draws in his last 11 games. OK , there is a possibility we could be better, but a likelihood we would be even worse.

LJ was his own worst enemy come the end. Over-thought everything.

Lockdown pickled his football brain I think.

I still remember the first home game back after the footballing Covid break and we had all that time to get Afobe fit, primed to make a charge for the play-offs and LJ played Benik wide left. Sheffield Wednesday I think. It was baffling.

[ZiderEyed]

On 16/12/2021 at 19:38, spudski said:

Even at LJs age, youngish, it must be a nightmare man managing players in their 20s and younger.

The world has changed so fast in recent years. 

Playing Professional football was like being in the Army...you went to war every game.

And in going to war...you fought...and didn't think about offending anyone. It was full on. Take no prisoners, win, say whatever to get results.

Now ..it's just woke central.

I'm really not sure how you go about it these days.

Didn't LJ say you had to put your arm around some to motivate and tell them how great they were, to get a result. Then others responded to a kick up the arse. 

How do you motivate multi millionaires, set up for life, to give a damn about kicking a ball. 

Woke central 

Answer is that you need more than a glorified drill sergeant. Archaic autocratic coaching styles have more or less evaporated because they are completely useless coaching younger players. All current academic research on coaching and learning processes says that the personality and style of a coach needs to mesh with a player. A generation of footballers who don't want to be shouted at unnessecarily? You need to adapt or you'll die off.

Move with the times or be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Woke central 

Answer is that you need more than a glorified drill sergeant. Archaic autocratic coaching styles have more or less evaporated because they are completely useless coaching younger players. All current academic research on coaching and learning processes says that the personality and style of a coach needs to mesh with a player. A generation of footballers who don't want to be shouted at unnessecarily? You need to adapt or you'll die off.

Move with the times or be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

Yep...I know...I was a professional coach in another sport, and dealt with the younger generation. So I know exactly what older coaches have to adapt to. 

[Taylor10]

20 hours ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

It’s almost as if we could expect the same from NP had he had £50mil plus to invest in the squad….

His time was up and ultimately he contributed to his own downfall.

[Sir Leigh of Somerset]

2 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

Woke central 

Answer is that you need more than a glorified drill sergeant. Archaic autocratic coaching styles have more or less evaporated because they are completely useless coaching younger players. All current academic research on coaching and learning processes says that the personality and style of a coach needs to mesh with a player. A generation of footballers who don't want to be shouted at unnessecarily? You need to adapt or you'll die off.

Move with the times or be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

But surely it's ok if the Coach gives them a trigger warning beforehand and the Club provides safe spaces for them to retire to if they don't want to hear shouty voices?

It seems to be working at universities ok...........

[Sleepy1968]

On 18/12/2021 at 10:47, JoeAman08 said:

It was time for LJ to go but he was a success for his time here.

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

[JoeAman08]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

Couldn’t agree more. 

[Numero Uno]

40 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

All comes down to the same thing. Swiss and the Owner have completely messed up the playing side of the club between them. If it’s blame people want then no need to look anywhere else.

[ZiderEyed]

59 minutes ago, Sir Leigh of Somerset said:

But surely it's ok if the Coach gives them a trigger warning beforehand and the Club provides safe spaces for them to retire to if they don't want to hear shouty voices?

It seems to be working at universities ok...........

Actually, dismissing the thoughts and opinions of young athletes evinces autocratic coaching behaviour, which again is very outmoded. Most athletes want to have a dialogue with a coach, and understand why they are doing certain sessions, rather than jogging round a pitch endlessly with some despot in tight shorts and raybans screaming obscenities at them. 

Do trigger warning even exist? When was the last time you met a student or saw inside a university by the way? Just because it pops up in the Daily Mail doesn't mean it actually happens. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by ZiderEyed

[Ron W]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Yep...I know...I was a professional coach in another sport, and dealt with the younger generation. So I know exactly what older coaches have to adapt to. 

And Lee Johnson is *checks notes*... 40.

[mozo]

4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

That's the word and ....
It's possible Holden would have had us in a better position, and Cotts and so on. Johnson got sacked because we fell apart late on in every season, AND later on the football was as bad as we are watching now.

His last season, 8 defeats and 2 draws in his last 11 games. OK , there is a possibility we could be better, but a likelihood we would be even worse.

'Likelihood' should also state 'possibility'. The form was bad but LJ has turned form around before.

Wasn't LJ when sacked in a higher league position than Holden when sacked and Pearson currently?

At the time I supported his sacking, but on reflection I think there's a good argument that he'd have kept us a top half side.

[1960maaan]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

'Likelihood' should also state 'possibility'. The form was bad but LJ has turned form around before.

Wasn't LJ when sacked in a higher league position than Holden when sacked and Pearson currently?

At the time I supported his sacking, but on reflection I think there's a good argument that he'd have kept us a top half side.

Well I guess you are an optimist then, fair play .  The time  he had here, he ended each season poorly, no reason to think that would change.

19/20  
9 defeats & 4 draws in 17 games

18/19
7 defeats. & 5 draws in 16 games

17/18
13 defeats & 9 draws in 27 games

It was far too much , feast or famine.  Some decent winning runs, but ending each year poorly means you will never be successful. Holden was massively unlucky , COVID and injuries , h could barely put a decent side out. Pearson has had injuries and a mess of huge proportions left for him by previous regimes . Johnson had more money, more players and more time than any manager previously. He was given chance to build and shape the side as he wanted, he bolloxed it. He may learn from it, he may be a good coach down the line, but his time was done. When people complain about the standard of football we watch, don't forget that started under Johnson.

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Couldn’t agree more. 

And me.  Instead we had a footballer wannabe with no ability to rein LJ (or himself in).

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

All comes down to the same thing. Swiss and the Owner have completely messed up the playing side of the club between them. If it’s blame people want then no need to look anywhere else.

Too right.  I don’t think LJ wanted a football person above him, his ego too big to think someone might know better than him.

[Keepers Ball]

Just like his Old Man then.

Steve Phillips became enemy No.1 thanks to him

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 17/12/2021 at 21:50, bcfcredandwhite said:

So please tell me who HAS achieved anything at Championship level then o wise one - I must be stupid because I can’t remember anyone achieving anything at this level since AD. 
No major silverware
No Premiership promotion

…… no change there then!!!!

... a ‘wise one’ would know the ‘premiership’ is in Scotland and no such entity has existed in England for over 13 years ...