Jump to content
IGNORED

Chris Martin


old_eastender

Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

A washing machine can out jump Martin and he is one of our most wasteful forward players with his "clever" flicks on - which often go nowhere near where any red-shirted player could reach. 

Not our worst player today,but one of the reasons we do not capitalise when we are in possession.  

Lightbulb moment! - mother used to put Bounce in the dryer! Is Scotty doing the laundry wrong?

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Yes I agree. I just don’t get why Pearson won’t use Wells

Pearson knows why. 
Talented though Wells is I have never seen him going in bravely to get on the end of something in the box.

He doesn’t appear to give his all to the cause as most others do. 

I can’t believe that , money aside, NW thinks coming here was a good career move. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Yes I agree. I just don’t get why Pearson won’t use Wells except for when we need a goal or two with eight minutes left. 
 

He was complaining about how thin we are post match. But he doesn’t maximize his options. 
 

My unpopular view is that we will ship goals when ever Massengo is playing a view I am told does have statistical support. So if Bakinson is not good enough then we are buggered until Williams is fit for more than one game. 2025 I’m told for that!

I think the way in which we are playing doesn’t suit Wells. He’s not strong enough to link play or hold the ball up and doesn’t have the work rate of Weimann say. Wells would get absolutely eaten up by centre half’s at this level with the way we play and would effectively be a passenger. 
 

NP clearly doesn’t think he’s good enough for us to try adapt our style to accommodate him either. If we can move him on his days are numbered here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would drop Martin and bring in George Tanner to full/wing back and push Alex Scott to wide right or centre of a front 3 with Semenyo and Weimann.  Scott is wasted in defence but NP obviously rates him and would play him anywhere, good job Bents hasnt been injured as NP would probably have Scott in goal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Martin is in the starting X!, we are effectively playing with just ten men.

He's either bloody lazy or simply incapable of running. Sick of seeing him constantly walking around the pitch.

Next time we start a game without him, we'll get a decent result (and hopefully he won't even be on the bench).

Whatever our shortcomings (and there's plenty of them), surely Pearson can see that Martin is not the answer.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

I think the way in which we are playing doesn’t suit Wells. He’s not strong enough to link play or hold the ball up and doesn’t have the work rate of Weimann say. Wells would get absolutely eaten up by centre half’s at this level with the way we play and would effectively be a passenger. 
 

NP clearly doesn’t think he’s good enough for us to try adapt our style to accommodate him either. If we can move him on his days are numbered here.

 

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Pearson knows why. 
Talented though Wells is I have never seen him going in bravely to get on the end of something in the box.

He doesn’t appear to give his all to the cause as most others do. 

I can’t believe that , money aside, NW thinks coming here was a good career move. 

I think you both have points and it’s pretty obvious Pearson agrees somewhat as he doesn’t get a game unless he’s coming off the bench. 
 

As I said somewhere yesterday Wells would be worth less than the zero he’s already worth injured so best place for him until January. 
 

I am slightly concerned about ‘our style’ as we are very predictable (less so since Semenyo returned but still predictable) so the word style gives me the feeling teams work us out quickly. 
 

Yes I have thought many times that Wells regrets coming here. However he was LJs signing and I can’t imagine LJ sold him anything that would have made him imagine we would be floundering around with a team that can’t pass out to eventually pass back to the keeper to hump up to a big man, while in a relegation battle!

I wonder if Sunderland are interested? :laugh:!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

I think the way in which we are playing doesn’t suit Wells. He’s not strong enough to link play or hold the ball up and doesn’t have the work rate of Weimann say. Wells would get absolutely eaten up by centre half’s at this level with the way we play and would effectively be a passenger. 
 

NP clearly doesn’t think he’s good enough for us to try adapt our style to accommodate him either. If we can move him on his days are numbered here.

We haven’t played in a way that suits him since the day he joined, because he never fit the system in the first place. Was a total (expensive) panic buy

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our play is now so one dimensional that Martin is the only forward we have who is capable (in Pearsons mind) of winning the long ball rubbish we play.

The last 10 minutes yesterday showed what these youngsters are capable of, but can the manager develop it?. If we're to play Warnock ball we may as well employ him, and that's from a Warnock hater!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, petehinton said:

We haven’t played in a way that suits him since the day he joined, because he never fit the system in the first place. Was a total (expensive) panic buy

Completely agree. Total panic buy and said as much at the time. Unfortunately symptomatic of a lot of the transfers throughout the LJ/MA era. No signings to fit a style and without any real plan on how to use them. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 

I think you both have points and it’s pretty obvious Pearson agrees somewhat as he doesn’t get a game unless he’s coming off the bench. 
 

As I said somewhere yesterday Wells would be worth less than the zero he’s already worth injured so best place for him until January. 
 

I am slightly concerned about ‘our style’ as we are very predictable (less so since Semenyo returned but still predictable) so the word style gives me the feeling teams work us out quickly. 
 

Yes I have thought many times that Wells regrets coming here. However he was LJs signing and I can’t imagine LJ sold him anything that would have made him imagine we would be floundering around with a team that can’t pass out to eventually pass back to the keeper to hump up to a big man, while in a relegation battle!

I wonder if Sunderland are interested? :laugh:!

Interestingly was speaking to a few Huddersfield fans in the tobacco factory before the game yesterday. They were disappointed Wells wasn’t starting as they think he’s crap. 
 

They were pretty unanimous in the view he wasn’t a very good player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

When Martin is in the starting X!, we are effectively playing with just ten men.

He's either bloody lazy or simply incapable of running. Sick of seeing him constantly walking around the pitch.

Next time we start a game without him, we'll get a decent result (and hopefully he won't even be on the bench).

Whatever our shortcomings (and there's plenty of them), surely Pearson can see that Martin is not the answer.

 

What utter tosh. He was running hard, working the channels and starting every press from the front in the first half. (Didn't notice so much second half as I was in the South stand). Just because the press isn't successful is not Martin's fault. Blame those around him who should be making sure Martin's man has no outlet ball. He did not stop working hard first 45 yesterday. Not his fault that most long balls pumped up long from the back favour a taller more powerful Centre Half. Most of the time all he can do is make it awkward for the Centre half to get a clean header.

Not saying he should not be replaced but some of the criticism on here is wide of the mark, just spend 10 minutes in a game watching him  and his work rate rather than jumping to preconceived ideas.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

What utter tosh. He was running hard, working the channels and starting every press from the front in the first half. (Didn't notice so much second half as I was in the South stand). Just because the press isn't successful is not Martin's fault. Blame those around him who should be making sure Martin's man has no outlet ball. He did not stop working hard first 45 yesterday. Not his fault that most long balls pumped up long from the back favour a taller more powerful Centre Half. Most of the time all he can do is make it awkward for the Centre half to get a clean header.

Not saying he should not be replaced but some of the criticism on here is wide of the mark, just spend 10 minutes in a game watching him  and his work rate rather than jumping to preconceived ideas.

Exactly. 
 

It’s very city. So who is the whipping boy! Martin puts in a shift. It maybe an unexciting one but that’s what he is told to do. 
 

30 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

Interestingly was speaking to a few Huddersfield fans in the tobacco factory before the game yesterday. They were disappointed Wells wasn’t starting as they think he’s crap. 
 

They were pretty unanimous in the view he wasn’t a very good player.

Yes they may well have been, but he still scored 44 goals in 143 appearances for them very close to 1 in 3 if I am reading his stats right!? At Rangers his second stint was 1 in 2. So I guess lies damned lies and statistics, which I assume is why Lansdown Ashton and LJ punted six million on him. If only Pearson or Cotterill had that sort of money to burn. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Exactly. 
 

It’s very city. So who is the whipping boy! Martin puts in a shift. It maybe an unexciting one but that’s what he is told to do. 
 

Yes they may well have been, but he still scored 44 goals in 143 appearances for them very close to 1 in 3 if I am reading his stats right!? At Rangers his second stint was 1 in 2. So I guess lies damned lies and statistics, which I assume is why Lansdown Ashton and LJ punted six million on him. If only Pearson or Cotterill had that sort of money to burn. 

He’s always got goals at this level to be fair. I just think he’s one of those players that suit a certain team/system. I think in all honesty those stats were part of the justification behind signing him. He wasn’t the type of striker we needed but at least he had a track record at this level. As you say though….if only Pearson or Cotts had that type of money to burn….

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Martin is OK, we stick long balls on him just like we did with Fam, who also looked like he preferred ball to feet.  He makes good runs, may not have the pace to hurt teams though. He's done a decent job, but many said at the start of the season, we can't play him 90 after 90. He looks better after a rest. He is being flogged, and now with Semenyo fit , there is no reason to. 

I'd like to see him get a rest for the next game, give Semenyo and Weimann a chance and see if we can play some football.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

He’s always got goals at this level to be fair. I just think he’s one of those players that suit a certain team/system. I think in all honesty those stats were part of the justification behind signing him. He wasn’t the type of striker we needed but at least he had a track record at this level. As you say though….if only Pearson or Cotts had that type of money to burn….

To be frank Im not sure Lee knew what he wanted! Wells soon ended up on the bench for the 6m!

But yeah we agree to lament the fact Johnson was showered with wedge. Wilbo made a comment that SC regrets he never got the benefit of funds that LJ did!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Pearson knows why. 
Talented though Wells is I have never seen him going in bravely to get on the end of something in the box.

He doesn’t appear to give his all to the cause as most others do. 

I can’t believe that , money aside, NW thinks coming here was a good career move. 

NW, didn't want to come here,he wanted to stay at QPR,but City put a bid in that Burnley didn't turn down,you could see that when he played against them, wouldn't even celebrate scoring

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

Interestingly was speaking to a few Huddersfield fans in the tobacco factory before the game yesterday. They were disappointed Wells wasn’t starting as they think he’s crap. 
 

They were pretty unanimous in the view he wasn’t a very good player.

They are a good judge of a player! Wells has been shocking for us, to the point now that he basically doesnt play anymore.

in terms of martin,we all know what we are going to get, hes in for the long ball forward, might get 7-8 goals this season and has no pace, but is getting flogged by playing every minute of every game,, we need another striker in to share the workload

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

They are a good judge of a player! Wells has been shocking for us, to the point now that he basically doesnt play anymore.

in terms of martin,we all know what we are going to get, hes in for the long ball forward, might get 7-8 goals this season and has no pace, but is getting flogged by playing every minute of every game,, we need another striker in to share the workload

He has indeed been poor. Be good to see him moved on in Jan but it’s safe to say it’s not worked out.

Chugger Martin works his socks off but he’s so limited and is being flogged. I think Semenyo’s return will take some of the pressure off as he has all the attributes to succeed at this level. Semenyo still has a bit to improve on but is decent back to goal. I would be half tempted to let him lead the line on his own or with Weimann. Martin needs a rest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to see Semenyo and Wells start for the next 4 games.

I don't care wether NP wants Wells gone - he scores goals.

 

A LCFC fan who i work with said that when NP draws a line through you - that's it - you are done.

 

I get it with Palmer as he can't / won't defend - but Wells?

 

I'd wager £10 that if he starts (and stays on all game) the next 5 games, he will score 3.

 

He is a finisher. Thats what we need.

 

In Martins defence - his legs are gone. This is on NP.

 

I'm 100% onboard will the way NP is tackling the huge task that is the mess at BCFC post Johnson / Ashton - but not playing Wells is odd.

Yes he has only scored 1 in 17 - but he's only started 5 times. 

 

Internationally (against lowly teams I admit - Barbados and Haiti - he's scored 4 goals in 2 games.

 

The last 2 years for us in the league he has scored  5 in 17 (2019) and 10 in 46 (2020)

 

If he could pop in another 9 this season to match that - it would go a long way toward us staying up. 

Wells overall Championship figures (inc subs) are 81 goals in 290 apps -1 every 3.61 games

Chris Martin -Championship (inc subs) are  102 goals in 401 apps - 1 every 3.93 games

Andi Weimann - Championship (inc subs) are 45 goals in 240 apps - 1 every 5.3 games

 

The difference is since 2018:

 

Wells has scored 31 (in 146 inc subs)

Andi Weimann has scored 30 (in 119 games - missed most of last season)

Martin has scored 20 (in 124 inc subs) - info from transfermarket.com

 

I can see Wells getting another 9.  I can't see Martin getting another 3 or 4.

Martin is done - he needs to be a sub bought on for the last 20. He's had a tidy career - played in the Premier League, played for Scotland 17 times. But he is no longer a 90 min champ player.

 

Wells is NOT done - and him and Semenyo (based on his dramatic recent improvement) represent the best chance leading the line to score based on the current squad.

Esp if AW can keep knocking them in from out wide - 9 in 23 - easily his best return ever in the Championship.

Previous best was 10 in 44. 

 

Wells + Semenyo to start up front, Weimann wide, Martin on bench.

 

We aren't getting much if anything in way of new players - so we make do with what we have - which is gradually playing the youngsters.

 

It's all about staying up - we are going to play badly, we will win games by a fluke. But we are slowly improving. It's there to see if you look - NP is doing a lot of heavy lifting behind the scenes - @Harry - scouting, fitness, attitude all need to still be improved.

 

We will get there.

I think NP is doing well with what he has left - my only concern is that he is too stubborn at times. 

DaSilva, Wells and Palmer can play - but there is something they are NOT doing, which Pearson wants them to do - Palmer is his lack of defensive coverage (and thats supposition) - it would be nice if NP explained why DaSilva and Wells aren't being played, so we can understand his reasoning. Vyner and Bakinson seem to have been given many chances - I'm not sure why DaSilva and Wells haven't been afforded the same courtesy.

Edited by The Constant Rabbit
  • Like 1
  • Flames 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 18/12/2021 at 17:26, JonDolman said:

He has been very poor last 2 games. Seemed like first half he was conserving his energy as he then seemed to sprint a lot more 2nd half. 

If our game is getting balls into the box, and there were quite a few great balls in at 3-1 down, then Martin is not going to make it to a lot of those crosses as he has poor acceleration so can't get in positions to score.

On a good day I think he is very good. But recently he hasn't done what he's good at.

Not only slow in speed but also speed of thought. Every goes into slow motion when the ball comes to him

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Jacob Rees-Mogg said:

I'd like to see Semenyo and Wells start for the next 4 games.

I don't care wether NP wants Wells gone - he scores goals.

 

A LCFC fan who i work with said that when NP draws a line through you - that's it - you are done.

 

I get it with Palmer as he can't / won't defend - but Wells?

 

I'd wager £10 that if he starts (and stays on all game) the next 5 games, he will score 3.

 

He is a finisher. Thats what we need.

 

In Martins defence - his legs are gone. This is on NP.

 

I'm 100% onboard will the way NP is tackling the huge task that is the mess at BCFC post Johnson / Ashton - but not playing Wells is odd.

Yes he has only scored 1 in 17 - but he's only started 5 times. 

 

Internationally (against lowly teams I admit - Barbados and Haiti - he's scored 4 goals in 2 games.

 

The last 2 years for us in the league he has scored  5 in 17 (2019) and 10 in 46 (2020)

 

If he could pop in another 9 this season to match that - it would go a long way toward us staying up. 

Wells overall Championship figures (inc subs) are 81 goals in 290 apps -1 every 3.61 games

Chris Martin -Championship (inc subs) are  102 goals in 401 apps - 1 every 3.93 games

Andi Weimann - Championship (inc subs) are 45 goals in 240 apps - 1 every 5.3 games

 

The difference is since 2018:

 

Wells has scored 31 (in 146 inc subs)

Andi Weimann has scored 30 (in 119 games - missed most of last season)

Martin has scored 20 (in 124 inc subs) - info from transfermarket.com

 

I can see Wells getting another 9.  I can't see Martin getting another 3 or 4.

Martin is done - he needs to be a sub bought on for the last 20. He's had a tidy career - played in the Premier League, played for Scotland 17 times. But he is no longer a 90 min champ player.

 

Wells is NOT done - and him and Semenyo (based on his dramatic recent improvement) represent the best chance leading the line to score based on the current squad.

Esp if AW can keep knocking them in from out wide - 9 in 23 - easily his best return ever in the Championship.

Previous best was 10 in 44. 

 

Wells + Semenyo to start up front, Weimann wide, Martin on bench.

 

We aren't getting much if anything in way of new players - so we make do with what we have - which is gradually playing the youngsters.

 

It's all about staying up - we are going to play badly, we will win games by a fluke. But we are slowly improving. It's there to see if you look - NP is doing a lot of heavy lifting behind the scenes - @Harry - scouting, fitness, attitude all need to still be improved.

 

We will get there.

I think NP is doing well with what he has left - my only concern is that he is too stubborn at times. 

DaSilva, Wells and Palmer can play - but there is something they are NOT doing, which Pearson wants them to do - Palmer is his lack of defensive coverage (and thats supposition) - it would be nice if NP explained why DaSilva and Wells aren't being played, so we can understand his reasoning. Vyner and Bakinson seem to have been given many chances - I'm not sure why DaSilva and Wells haven't been afforded the same courtesy.

 

I don't think it's supposition that Palmer offers little defensively, it's the evidence of our own eyes over more than 50 games.

As for Weimann wide. Didn't work at Derby, hasn't worked here. He might as well be stood in the carpark than played there.

I imagine Nakhi and Jay are set for a January departure.  Pearson's working with the players he wants "on the bus" in the future. We certainly won't turn a profit from either departure, but the wages freed might give Nige the leeway to make, perhaps, one signing. 

At 33, I think Martin's earned a rest from playing every second of every game and I think my preference would be for a Weimann/Semenyo front two, with Martin getting game time in the second half. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

What utter tosh. He was running hard, working the channels and starting every press from the front in the first half. (Didn't notice so much second half as I was in the South stand). Just because the press isn't successful is not Martin's fault. Blame those around him who should be making sure Martin's man has no outlet ball. He did not stop working hard first 45 yesterday. Not his fault that most long balls pumped up long from the back favour a taller more powerful Centre Half. Most of the time all he can do is make it awkward for the Centre half to get a clean header.

Not saying he should not be replaced but some of the criticism on here is wide of the mark, just spend 10 minutes in a game watching him  and his work rate rather than jumping to preconceived ideas.

So you think my opinion is based solely on not watching Martin and simply  jumping to preconceived ideas.

The more I see him play, the more it confirms what I say about him.

You stick to your opinion and I'll stick to mine.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of the flak for Martin, I don't know.

I don't think he is built to play from the start every week. He hasn't got injured yet but we all know what happened last season- prior to admittedly rather a lot of injuries in the squad he started off rather well.

Then he was played, played and played- his effectiveness started to wane over time and eventually after a brief renaissance, he got injured.

I'm surprised that he has been able to start each and every League game, but the effectiveness has been generally reducing although he made some contributions- Weimann through the middle, saw an interesting suggestion possibly on this thread of Scott-Weimann- Semenyo with Tanner to RB/RWB. I think he has his attributes but a) Playing him in every game from the off and b) Hitting it long to him often- does him or us few favours.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well said Rees-Mogg, you may have a political IQ of zero, but that’s a reasonable assessment of where we’re at football-wise for me.

I totally ‘get’ that the likes of Wells, Palmer and DaSilva have been, and continue to be, an absolute waste of money. I also understand that Pearson watches these guys and thinks for a fraction of what we’re spending on these I could get players in who could push us on. I understand in today’s football world, one tactic - probably the only one the Club has - of ‘encouraging’ players to leave is to not play them. 

However, I look at the absolute s**tfest on the pitch, the lack of identity, shape,  the complete absence of partnerships and fluency and think to myself surely these three could add value and help form the basis of a more solid coherent side. 

I’m in the camp that relegation is a stark reality. We are, frankly, diabolical - a dysfunctional shambles. The goals we concede are sub-National League standard. The errors are just so basic. My memory may be failing me, but I struggle to think of a ‘team’ that seems such a complete mess, collectively or individually, in 50+ years of supporting City. 

January is going to be crucial. Will the agents of Wells, Palmer and DaSilva move the players on or tell them to sit tight? How big a loss are we going to be prepared to take? 

Big gambles going on. Let’s hope the Club have employed the right tactics and these three go elsewhere, allowing us to start building a side with new blood capable of sustaining life in the  Championship. 

I suppose, if they don’t move and that frustrates our ability to bring new players in, Pearson will have to integrate these three somehow into the side once the window closes. I worry though if the bridges have been burnt and/or Pearson is too stubborn to do that.  

Interesting and worrying times.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...