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Ben Foster on Nigel Pearson


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5 hours ago, SydneyCity said:

What I liked about the Ben Foster story is it sounds like he creates an environment where there’s nowhere to hide. He clearly sets the expectations for everyone and looks you in the eye when he says it so there’s no mistaking what he means.

I can’t help but feel there have been a few work dodgers in the club over the past few years and NP certainly seems to be addressing that.

I’ve got to say I didn’t see many ‘work dodgers’ under Dean Holden.  What I saw was a side pretty much doing their best in the face of the worst injury crisis in living memory (and I still think that if Tommy Rowe had not got injured when he did, the season might have turned out quite differently).  The only time I saw players looking less than fully committed last season was after Holden was sacked, though morale was clearly rock bottom in Holden’s last few games.

It’s all very well creating an an environment where there’s nowhere to hide, but he has to get the players on side or we will be in trouble.  The squad is what it is and Pearson has to get the best out of it.  He certainly isn’t doing that at the moment.

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17 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I’ve got to say I didn’t see many ‘work dodgers’ under Dean Holden.  What I saw was a side pretty much doing their best in the face of the worst injury crisis in living memory (and I still think that if Tommy Rowe had not got injured when he did, the season might have turned out quite differently).  The only time I saw players looking less than fully committed last season was after Holden was sacked, though morale was clearly rock bottom in Holden’s last few games.

It’s all very well creating an an environment where there’s nowhere to hide, but he has to get the players on side or we will be in trouble.  The squad is what it is and Pearson has to get the best out of it.  He certainly isn’t doing that at the moment.

Get a lot of this "work dodging", "uncoachable" nonsense spouted on here.

As you say I never saw that under Holden.

Peoples memories and perceptions differ though to suit agendas.

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40 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I’ve got to say I didn’t see many ‘work dodgers’ under Dean Holden.

Was there not a story about Marley Watkins literally hiding in a physio room rather than train?

Admittedly this was technically under Pearson when he first came in but that, to me, is the sign of long standing attitude problem at the club.

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8 hours ago, Sandhurst Red said:

https://fb.watch/a2u9IsOY12/

An interesting story about what Nigel Pearson did when he became manager at Watford. 

Video is on FB - so will need to be logged in to watch. 

 

 

8 hours ago, iamalagerdrinker said:

On YouTube aswell, think it was posted a few weeks or so ago when someone mentioned an Under The Cosh episode where someone speaks of NP on there

 

Ben Foster  - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ben+forster+management+podcast+


 

 

I see the episode goes on for almost two hours.

Is there anybody who has watched, who is able to indicate, approximately, where Ben Foster appears talking about NP?

Thanks in advance.

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I’ve got to say I didn’t see many ‘work dodgers’ under Dean Holden.  What I saw was a side pretty much doing their best in the face of the worst injury crisis in living memory (and I still think that if Tommy Rowe had not got injured when he did, the season might have turned out quite differently).  The only time I saw players looking less than fully committed last season was after Holden was sacked, though morale was clearly rock bottom in Holden’s last few games.

It’s all very well creating an an environment where there’s nowhere to hide, but he has to get the players on side or we will be in trouble.  The squad is what it is and Pearson has to get the best out of it.  He certainly isn’t doing that at the moment.

There you go again . Turning your opinion into fact. You are pretty good at it too . 

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53 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

There you go again . Turning your opinion into fact. You are pretty good at it too . 

I’ve done nothing of the sort.  I’m clearly expressing an opinion, which others are very welcome to challenge.  The only time I’ve presented anything as fact recently was that I had heard an opinion of Pearson from a player.  That was fact, but I did acknowledge that it was only one player’s feelings, though he had indicated that he was not alone in feeling that way.  The only other fact I’d present at the moment is that we’re not playing very well.

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45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think you’re failing to take into account the timeline and contract situation that evolved in the latter period of Holden / early period of Pearson.  It had a massive bearing.

And it depends what the person posting things like “work dodging” and “uncoachable” is really trying to imply, whether they are aiming at the players themselves or faults of the manager and his coaching staff.  Same with the use of “bullying” too!

I think it’s fair to say that Holden didn’t have to experience the full reality of a final 3 month period of the season where a CEO had promised the earth publicly and then pulled the rug from under the feet.  The downturn did start under Holden around the time / after the bollox spouted by Ashton v Norwich.

2AE41A88-87A8-41C1-99CF-9CB2ED95BEB4.thumb.jpeg.8836e20098f81bdaedcf3dfd2bf302f3.jpeg

I’m being selective here, not for an agenda because I posted exactly this last January, that the contract situations needing sorting were drifting on and on and you could see it on the pitch.  We saw Ashton talk to Gregor, Geoff and the commentator Gary Weaver, and basically undermine everything.  Look at the results as the window approached, then the Huddersfield win (as the window was ending) we got absolutely battered.  The performances against Cardiff and Watford were abject…those were tell-tale signs the players were not putting effort in….under Holden.  But NOT Holden’s fault, just like the following 3 month’s of results WEREN’T Nige’s fault either. The rot was set by the CEO and Owner.  They stuffed up.  Fam laughed at accusations he’d been offered £30k p.w. by Ashton.  That tells you something for a player to go public.

Nige got a small bounce, that all bar mathematically ensured survival, but then the reality of players not getting contracts (coupled with injuries that Holden had to deal with too) meant we limped over the (safety) line.  It’s been a huge repair job.  I think that is underestimated on here.

The reason you didn’t hear uncoachable / downed tools comments under Holden was because many arent  perceptive enough to understand the external impacts that were going on.  Most were happy to blame “inexperienced Holden” rather than the players or understand why the players weren’t quite “at it” anymore….that’s why you didn’t hear it.  Ashton made Holden the scapegoat for his own incompetence.

I don’t blame the players, players like Tommy Rowe being rushed back from injury with the knowledge he isn’t gonna get a new contract.  Lansbury, signed on the cheap to try and get himself a new, better deal in the summer, suddenly finds there’s no money to match his expectations now the bullshitting CEO is gone and the reality of City’s financial position is honestly relayed to him.  Hey, Henri, come here on £8k p.w*** with your pay-off from Villa, play well and we will double that in the summer.  Promises, promises!  Lies, lies!!

There are so many different dynamics going on, timing is everything, and very good reasons why different parties get flak at different times.

I fully expect Holden would’ve ended up with exactly the same issues as Nige had last season.  Would Dean be the right man for a post-Ashton re-build, I’m not so sure!

 

*** for example purposes only.

This is a brilliant post.

The one thing I'd add is that - whilst I agree people weren't 'work dodgers' under Holden, I do think there are long-standing problems in the character of the squad. I don't think they are necessarily on any individual player but I do think that we've lacked leaders and strong characters at the club for a while. The likes of Weimann, Bentley and Kalas come across as very good professionals, and I'm not knocking their attitude or work ethic, but I don't really see anyone in the club who picks the team up when things are going against us and drags performances over the line. 

Maybe James can do that and we'll see more of it from here out, and I wonder if Williams has got it in him when he's fit, but I think we've got a tendency to lose heart when things are going against us and I think that partly comes down to a lack of senior leaders. Players don't need to be workshy for the attitude in the team to not quite be right. 

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1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

This is a brilliant post.

The one thing I'd add is that - whilst I agree people weren't 'work dodgers' under Holden, I do think there are long-standing problems in the character of the squad. I don't think they are necessarily on any individual player but I do think that we've lacked leaders and strong characters at the club for a while. The likes of Weimann, Bentley and Kalas come across as very good professionals, and I'm not knocking their attitude or work ethic, but I don't really see anyone in the club who picks the team up when things are going against us and drags performances over the line. 

Maybe James can do that and we'll see more of it from here out, and I wonder if Williams has got it in him when he's fit, but I think we've got a tendency to lose heart when things are going against us and I think that partly comes down to a lack of senior leaders. Players don't need to be workshy for the attitude in the team to not quite be right. 

Agree. For me it is about mental resilience. For a full 46 game relentless Championship season. 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think you’re failing to take into account the timeline and contract situation that evolved in the latter period of Holden / early period of Pearson.  It had a massive bearing.

And it depends what the person posting things like “work dodging” and “uncoachable” is really trying to imply, whether they are aiming at the players themselves or faults of the manager and his coaching staff.  Same with the use of “bullying” too!

I think it’s fair to say that Holden didn’t have to experience the full reality of a final 3 month period of the season where a CEO had promised the earth publicly and then pulled the rug from under the feet.  The downturn did start under Holden around the time / after the bollox spouted by Ashton v Norwich.

2AE41A88-87A8-41C1-99CF-9CB2ED95BEB4.thumb.jpeg.8836e20098f81bdaedcf3dfd2bf302f3.jpeg

I’m being selective here, not for an agenda because I posted exactly this last January, that the contract situations needing sorting were drifting on and on and you could see it on the pitch.  We saw Ashton talk to Gregor, Geoff and the commentator Gary Weaver, and basically undermine everything.  Look at the results as the window approached, then the Huddersfield win (as the window was ending) we got absolutely battered.  The performances against Cardiff and Watford were abject…those were tell-tale signs the players were not putting effort in….under Holden.  But NOT Holden’s fault, just like the following 3 month’s of results WEREN’T Nige’s fault either. The rot was set by the CEO and Owner.  They stuffed up.  Fam laughed at accusations he’d been offered £30k p.w. by Ashton.  That tells you something for a player to go public.

Nige got a small bounce, that all bar mathematically ensured survival, but then the reality of players not getting contracts (coupled with injuries that Holden had to deal with too) meant we limped over the (safety) line.  It’s been a huge repair job.  I think that is underestimated on here.

The reason you didn’t hear uncoachable / downed tools comments under Holden was because many arent  perceptive enough to understand the external impacts that were going on.  Most were happy to blame “inexperienced Holden” rather than the players or understand why the players weren’t quite “at it” anymore….that’s why you didn’t hear it.  Ashton made Holden the scapegoat for his own incompetence.

I don’t blame the players, players like Tommy Rowe being rushed back from injury with the knowledge he isn’t gonna get a new contract.  Lansbury, signed on the cheap to try and get himself a new, better deal in the summer, suddenly finds there’s no money to match his expectations now the bullshitting CEO is gone and the reality of City’s financial position is honestly relayed to him.  Hey, Henri, come here on £8k p.w*** with your pay-off from Villa, play well and we will double that in the summer.  Promises, promises!  Lies, lies!!

There are so many different dynamics going on, timing is everything, and very good reasons why different parties get flak at different times.

I fully expect Holden would’ve ended up with exactly the same issues as Nige had last season.  Would Dean be the right man for a post-Ashton re-build, I’m not so sure!

 

*** for example purposes only.

Great post.

People need to be vary careful blaming the players for this scenario we now find ourselves in, it is lazy and mis-informed.

Both then and now.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think you’re failing to take into account the timeline and contract situation that evolved in the latter period of Holden / early period of Pearson.  It had a massive bearing.

And it depends what the person posting things like “work dodging” and “uncoachable” is really trying to imply, whether they are aiming at the players themselves or faults of the manager and his coaching staff.  Same with the use of “bullying” too!

I think it’s fair to say that Holden didn’t have to experience the full reality of a final 3 month period of the season where a CEO had promised the earth publicly and then pulled the rug from under the feet.  The downturn did start under Holden around the time / after the bollox spouted by Ashton v Norwich.

2AE41A88-87A8-41C1-99CF-9CB2ED95BEB4.thumb.jpeg.8836e20098f81bdaedcf3dfd2bf302f3.jpeg

I’m being selective here, not for an agenda because I posted exactly this last January, that the contract situations needing sorting were drifting on and on and you could see it on the pitch.  We saw Ashton talk to Gregor, Geoff and the commentator Gary Weaver, and basically undermine everything.  Look at the results as the window approached, then the Huddersfield win (as the window was ending) we got absolutely battered.  The performances against Cardiff and Watford were abject…those were tell-tale signs the players were not putting effort in….under Holden.  But NOT Holden’s fault, just like the following 3 month’s of results WEREN’T Nige’s fault either. The rot was set by the CEO and Owner.  They stuffed up.  Fam laughed at accusations he’d been offered £30k p.w. by Ashton.  That tells you something for a player to go public.

Nige got a small bounce, that all bar mathematically ensured survival, but then the reality of players not getting contracts (coupled with injuries that Holden had to deal with too) meant we limped over the (safety) line.  It’s been a huge repair job.  I think that is underestimated on here.

The reason you didn’t hear uncoachable / downed tools comments under Holden was because many arent  perceptive enough to understand the external impacts that were going on.  Most were happy to blame “inexperienced Holden” rather than the players or understand why the players weren’t quite “at it” anymore….that’s why you didn’t hear it.  Ashton made Holden the scapegoat for his own incompetence.

I don’t blame the players, players like Tommy Rowe being rushed back from injury with the knowledge he isn’t gonna get a new contract.  Lansbury, signed on the cheap to try and get himself a new, better deal in the summer, suddenly finds there’s no money to match his expectations now the bullshitting CEO is gone and the reality of City’s financial position is honestly relayed to him.  Hey, Henri, come here on £8k p.w*** with your pay-off from Villa, play well and we will double that in the summer.  Promises, promises!  Lies, lies!!

There are so many different dynamics going on, timing is everything, and very good reasons why different parties get flak at different times.

I fully expect Holden would’ve ended up with exactly the same issues as Nige had last season.  Would Dean be the right man for a post-Ashton re-build, I’m not so sure!

 

*** for example purposes only.

And some on here question why I bleat on and on and on about the Buffoon that is Lansdown…..

Accountability stops with him. He appointed Ashton and either accepted him for what he was, actually wanted him for what he was or couldn’t see him for what he was.

But hey. We’ve got a lovely shiny stadium. And top notch training facilities…

He must know what he’s doing. After all he’s a successful businessman…….

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1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

This is a brilliant post.

The one thing I'd add is that - whilst I agree people weren't 'work dodgers' under Holden, I do think there are long-standing problems in the character of the squad. I don't think they are necessarily on any individual player but I do think that we've lacked leaders and strong characters at the club for a while. The likes of Weimann, Bentley and Kalas come across as very good professionals, and I'm not knocking their attitude or work ethic, but I don't really see anyone in the club who picks the team up when things are going against us and drags performances over the line. 

Maybe James can do that and we'll see more of it from here out, and I wonder if Williams has got it in him when he's fit, but I think we've got a tendency to lose heart when things are going against us and I think that partly comes down to a lack of senior leaders. Players don't need to be workshy for the attitude in the team to not quite be right. 

Yes, excellent point.  I failed to see that type of onfield leadership too often in recent years.  I’m not even sure Korey or Marlon for example were like that.

8 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Great post.

People need to be vary careful blaming the players for this scenario we now find ourselves in, it is lazy and mis-informed.

Both then and now.

As is laying the blame at the manager too.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, excellent point.  I failed to see that type of onfield leadership too often in recent years.  I’m not even sure Korey or Marlon for example were like that.

As is laying the blame at the manager too.

Yes exactly - The whole "Holden bad and Pearson good" rhetoric is nonsense.

Both dealt a crap hand and attempted/ing to make the best of it.

Neither are as good or as bad as advertised - IMO.  

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think you’re failing to take into account the timeline and contract situation that evolved in the latter period of Holden / early period of Pearson.  It had a massive bearing.

And it depends what the person posting things like “work dodging” and “uncoachable” is really trying to imply, whether they are aiming at the players themselves or faults of the manager and his coaching staff.  Same with the use of “bullying” too!

I think it’s fair to say that Holden didn’t have to experience the full reality of a final 3 month period of the season where a CEO had promised the earth publicly and then pulled the rug from under the feet.  The downturn did start under Holden around the time / after the bollox spouted by Ashton v Norwich.

2AE41A88-87A8-41C1-99CF-9CB2ED95BEB4.thumb.jpeg.8836e20098f81bdaedcf3dfd2bf302f3.jpeg

I’m being selective here, not for an agenda because I posted exactly this last January, that the contract situations needing sorting were drifting on and on and you could see it on the pitch.  We saw Ashton talk to Gregor, Geoff and the commentator Gary Weaver, and basically undermine everything.  Look at the results as the window approached, then the Huddersfield win (as the window was ending) we got absolutely battered.  The performances against Cardiff and Watford were abject…those were tell-tale signs the players were not putting effort in….under Holden.  But NOT Holden’s fault, just like the following 3 month’s of results WEREN’T Nige’s fault either. The rot was set by the CEO and Owner.  They stuffed up.  Fam laughed at accusations he’d been offered £30k p.w. by Ashton.  That tells you something for a player to go public.

Nige got a small bounce, that all bar mathematically ensured survival, but then the reality of players not getting contracts (coupled with injuries that Holden had to deal with too) meant we limped over the (safety) line.  It’s been a huge repair job.  I think that is underestimated on here.

The reason you didn’t hear uncoachable / downed tools comments under Holden was because many arent  perceptive enough to understand the external impacts that were going on.  Most were happy to blame “inexperienced Holden” rather than the players or understand why the players weren’t quite “at it” anymore….that’s why you didn’t hear it.  Ashton made Holden the scapegoat for his own incompetence.

I don’t blame the players, players like Tommy Rowe being rushed back from injury with the knowledge he isn’t gonna get a new contract.  Lansbury, signed on the cheap to try and get himself a new, better deal in the summer, suddenly finds there’s no money to match his expectations now the bullshitting CEO is gone and the reality of City’s financial position is honestly relayed to him.  Hey, Henri, come here on £8k p.w*** with your pay-off from Villa, play well and we will double that in the summer.  Promises, promises!  Lies, lies!!

There are so many different dynamics going on, timing is everything, and very good reasons why different parties get flak at different times.

I fully expect Holden would’ve ended up with exactly the same issues as Nige had last season.  Would Dean be the right man for a post-Ashton re-build, I’m not so sure!

 

*** for example purposes only.

Fully agreee with this. Letting so many players contracts expire at the same time was a recipe for disaster. 
 

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1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

Yes exactly - The whole "Holden bad and Pearson good" rhetoric is nonsense.

Both dealt a crap hand and attempted/ing to make the best of it.

Neither are as good or as bad as advertised - IMO.  

Agree. I'm really trying to give Pearson time, I was hoping we would have seen more improvement by now , but it was/is a massive rebuilding job.
Holden, well IMO we will never know how good or bad he could have been. What with the backroom problems, the massive injury list, COVID AND it being his first job ? It was almost guaranteed failure . 

If Pearson gets anywhere near the leeway, time, money and support that Johnson got, we may well be going in the right direction. 
Time will tell.

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1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Agree. I'm really trying to give Pearson time, I was hoping we would have seen more improvement by now , but it was/is a massive rebuilding job.
Holden, well IMO we will never know how good or bad he could have been. What with the backroom problems, the massive injury list, COVID AND it being his first job ? It was almost guaranteed failure . 

If Pearson gets anywhere near the leeway, time, money and support that Johnson got, we may well be going in the right direction. 
Time will tell.

Under Holden before we lost Mawson and Weimann  to injury in the same game versus Boro we were top of the league.

Things have gone down hill rapidly since that point, both under Holden and Pearson until the Blackburn game when some sort of stabilisation took place.

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2 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Under Holden before we lost Mawson and Weimann  to injury in the same game versus Boro we were top of the league.

Things have gone down hill rapidly since that point, both under Holden and Pearson until the Blackburn game when some sort of stabilisation took place.

Weimann got injured v Swansea, but your point is right, both were very key players to the system.

We can agree to disagree on Blackburn being a turning point.

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5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

This is a brilliant post.

The one thing I'd add is that - whilst I agree people weren't 'work dodgers' under Holden, I do think there are long-standing problems in the character of the squad. I don't think they are necessarily on any individual player but I do think that we've lacked leaders and strong characters at the club for a while. The likes of Weimann, Bentley and Kalas come across as very good professionals, and I'm not knocking their attitude or work ethic, but I don't really see anyone in the club who picks the team up when things are going against us and drags performances over the line. 

Maybe James can do that and we'll see more of it from here out, and I wonder if Williams has got it in him when he's fit, but I think we've got a tendency to lose heart when things are going against us and I think that partly comes down to a lack of senior leaders. Players don't need to be workshy for the attitude in the team to not quite be right. 

We lack ‘ strong characters and leaders at the club’ - absolutely. And the reason for that is those are not qualities that MA and LJ wanted.

Ultimately, they both knew that characters of that nature would, in the end, expose them, and that was not a risk they were prepared to take.

 

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3 hours ago, VT05763 said:

The whole "Holden bad and Pearson good" rhetoric is nonsense.

It was never my intention to suggest Holden bad, Pearson good when I said “work dodgers”. In my opinion it pre-dates Holden’s time as manager and was club wide.

As is often the case, @Davefevs has summed up the situation fantastically.

Personally, I have no real agenda but do believe Ashton is to blame for most of the issues we’ve had, Holden was the wrong appointment and Pearson is a very strong candidate to get everything back on track for the club… as suggested by Ben Foster’s comments.

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45 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

We lack ‘ strong characters and leaders at the club’ - absolutely. And the reason for that is those are not qualities that MA and LJ wanted.

Ultimately, they both knew that characters of that nature would, in the end, expose them, and that was not a risk they were prepared to take.

 

Unfortunately, I fear you are correct; certainly in so far as it concerns MA.

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Getting a successful football club isn't any different to any other business.

Leaders are required at all levels and that is something that our football club has not had since Cotts and players like Wade Elliott and Wilbraham were here.

Not one of our back three or back five give me any indication of leadership.

Start there, and also get a dominating keeper, central midfield and striker.

NP has a hell of a job to turn us into a "team" !

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